EVE General Discussion

I've appreciated your posts and attitude as you can speak from minority experience, even if you disagree.

My answer to one of your questions: on what people can do, includes firstly: leadership.

I was in a corp that had a solid policy against mistreatment of corpmates. Those who deserved it were let go and some were podded on their merry way.

However, the Alliance (of modest size) chat was full of offensive/hate speech and porn links (which were not appreciated by everyone, male or female) -- primarily from the same 10 or so people.

The CEO and Alliance head got together and came up with a simple solution to add a separate chat for porn and X-rated talk and both helped in curbing the slurs etc. They did so with zero loss in membership -- other than maybe people about to get canned anyway.

Now while this undertaking would be huge, if not burdensome and impractical, in a large alliance, the point is two-fold.

a) reasonable people and cool heads prevailed for a solution
b) like-minded corps and alliances work better together

Following this move, members took it upon themselves to moderate/guide newcomers -- in their own creative way -- who were accustomed to a free-for-all and disrespect.

It worked out quite well, actually. As a pirate group we didn't turn all nicey-nice either ...but I don't think the rules were burdensome for most.

Your obsession with me is neither flattering nor amusing.
Consider yourself on notice I wish no further contact with you here or elsewhere.

Clearly you lack the ability to read what people post.

No means no.

She doesn't want to talk to you, that you just keep trying shows exactly that you are the kind of players that are the issue.

If you're gonna try to play the reverse discrimination card, don't bother.

She very clearly stated exactly why she valued his experience. He shared how he dealt with being targeted as a minority. Now if you have a story where you were actually really a minority AND you've been treated like one, please feel free to share... but so far I'm not seeing it. I have no idea what your actual ethnicity is, and don't care, but so far your overall tone is that of a person who has never been the target of hate or dehumanization. LIke so:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4f9zR5yzY

Now, if you'd care to share otherwise - and i don't mean "omg i had to work with alot of women once and i heard them say men don't like to ask for directions"... but something personal and hateful directed at YOU, for no reason other than being male, go right ahead. Otherwise, it's hard to listen when you say "oh, you should just ignore them".

And there's nothing wrong with any of that. I've been in crops and alliances that didn't tolerate the Bs in the 1st place and thus never had to do what you describe.

But the point is, you can't do that for an entire game community of anonymous people, which is what we're talking about.

For me, it's enough that I don't have to deal with too much of it (in my case, racism) in my own playing group and that CCP will ban people who do it overtly in game (such as in local chat or via evemail/convos etc). But even with all that, some nasty people do still exist and some play the game and I have no illusions about them ever leaving.

Because stupid people and stupidity will always exist, I've learned to live with it (in game and out), either by ignoring it, or (more often, as is the case of my posting on these forums) pointing at them and laughing my ass off and inviting others to do so as well. That imo is a proper response.

An improper response would sitting around fretting about it (to the point of not playing EVE) while waiting for the EVE community to come together around a campfire and sing Kumbayah while eating disgusting Icelandic food.. Again, this is not acceptance of evil, it's acceptance of reality (and adapting to the same).

That makes sense and I don't have the desire to revolutionize EVE nor the time to do so if I did. -- Esp. since I'm addicted to a horse and sword game now (lol). I also see where it would be wasted effort.

I guess where we differ is that I am not into accepting anything I feel is wrong. Do I always make a fuss? No, I ignore a lot as most stuff doesn't bother me or I tune it out. But while I don't always speak up, I feel like I bertray myself when I don't, in some cases.

But I'm neither a loudmouth nor an extrovert so I have to really be irked about something to say anything. As a result, people may not know something is wrong.

I also believe in this quote and hold it dear:

“Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.” -Margaret Mead

And if that doesn't work, Ok, yes, there are ship explosions to be made. :-D

Otherwise, I don't know what you have to go through in this game. I honestly thought we had progressed further as a society --(other than slurs -- which I see everywhere, not limited to race or gender) but what do I know from my white neighborhood.?

I do know the one corp I was in with a black man (I guess I didn't know/consider this was a minority (as in outsider) in Eve until this thread and in hindsight) that he was not treated any different on comms or by the corp in any way that was obvious to me. I can't say the same about me.

But I chalked it up to some guys were just more comfortable flying with a guy. I didn't get an invitation to this or that outing but didn't take it personal, it's just how it was. But through that experience I just started going out on my own and with people who took the time to get to know me. Once the glass ceiling was broke I had a lot of fun.

I don't know if gender/race ceilings are comparable in EVE but if you're having a good time and what you're doing works for you, I presume that is what matters most.


Oh and this:


Not only is this hilarious in parts but better distinguishes your view to me. As, yeah, I kinda saw some things you wrote as acceptance of evil.

Just clarifying that I meant I know no more about living life in game or out as any other race any more then a guy knows what it's like to be a woman. Life experience teaches us some things, but as you say we can't understand everything about a person.



Well that's a lot to deal with as a guy. If that's a bigger issue that compels guys to act as they do, I can see that really the only way to deal with that is prove yourself to not be the kind of person so despised. And with any corp the onus is on the player to prove themselves.

That said, I don't see it as justification for being an idiot towards women-- esp. beyond the status quo mmo idiocy often derived from immaturity.

But it looks like there are multiple issues at play. I really don't know how to counter the above other than as mentioned -- by not sending people running and not being a drama queen. I get that.

Then we have the issue of people acting inappropriately in general. I think it is easier to address that than realized (when the situation warrants) but people may be afraid (to break rank) /too lazy or disinterested to do so. (And such I gave kudos and an example of people taking action without causing havoc or buzzkill).

ETA: There are many girl gamers who simply want to play the game (so it goes both ways) and often are as hardcore as guys. (I know I can be and to try to make others comfortable) But they shouldn't have to tell **** jokes to be accepted. A lot of men don't and don't care much for it (hence, my point on finding compatible corps).

It just seems some improvements could be made here -- with mostly minimal effort -- to allow them to do so without having to jump through several hoops just to be treated half-decently.

P.S.S -- I dunno maybe I'm in the minority (I mean besides the other minority) but even though this game is cruel and you need hard skin, if I see someone mistreated *as a person* it is my natural instinct to call people out on it. I don't really get why that isn't more common...granted I come from a kinder time, -- in part, but not all, due to lack of anonymity --more or less.

Ok, so the truth is out, I'm really Mother Hen.

What if we just had billboards in EVE that say.

WARNING: Real girls play EVE, and yes they have breasts.
Get over it and don't crash your ship when one speaks.
Have a nice day.

Heh, I wasn't trying to do anything. It would have been nice to hear something besides "Oh you're black, so you understand" in so many words. I do however find it highly amusing that the response to having been caught inn such a patronizing and arguably racist statement was the forum equivalent of "I'm taking my ball and going home!".

Also, dunno why, but the link didn't work.



That last sentence is the part I have an issue with. "oh, you couldn't understand because you aren't XYZ".

That's not how that works. This isn't the "share discrimination stories or GTFO" thread.

Regardless of what ethnicity I am (or gender, for that matter), if I am saying "just ignore it" and that is my earnestly held opinion on what the best response to the situation is, then it shouldn't matter if I am white, black, or polka dot.

But "I respect your opinion more because you're black, so you know how it feels", yeah, that's just racist. Particularly coming from a person bemoaning the lack of respect for females in the game.

So, in her own words, this:



Is more acceptable to her than this:



Because the person in the first quote, said he was black.

I'd add. PS: Make your own damn 'sammich'