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Simulation Sickness / Motion Sickness

Author
Aya Shinomiya
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-06-04 15:22:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Aya Shinomiya
Hi,

As the subject says it, I want to bring this topic to attention. Maybe some of you know this. You can google it for explanation if not.

Today, I traveled through many gates. And the longer I stared at the screen the more I get sick and headache. For the first time since I play EVE Online. I searched for explanations and remember to have read something about Motion Sickness in combination with PC games. I had to close EVE Online because I could not see this steady order of shaking warp travel, new jumping effect and automatic camera alignment of the objects (I shut this down) and by the jump effect itself anymore. The game becomes too unsteady in my opinion.

I believe CCP did not recognized the possibility of this problem and exaggerated the dramatical effect a little bit. If they put too much light effects and shaking cameras movements and so on into the game, I think people who play the game for more hours get similar problems at the long run.

I think it is very important to discuss this or whether there are others with similar problems and make investigations on this. It can not be denied that modern games with their increasing special effects and the perception of them have influences on our bodies.

Regards.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-06-05 00:53:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
I agree. I have not personally experienced any motion sickness, but I find the warp shaking effect very jarring and physically disorienting (not in-game disorienting). Different people will be affected in different ways, and so I think it is important to always have backup solutions. I might not be able to play if not for the ability to turn the warp shake effect off.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#3 - 2013-06-05 01:01:18 UTC
Two out of three of those are options.
The third is a slow swing which shouldn't induce motion sickness in anyone who doesn't have an actual disability.
And while those people have my sympathy, designing a game around disabilities.... seems against Eve's HTFU policy.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-06-05 01:25:03 UTC
Absolutely wrong, CCP is very willing to work with people who have actual disabilities. What they don't like are people who can deal with it and don't want to because they are selfish sissies who want the rest of the world to bend over backward for their own comfort. That's what HTFU is all about.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

BlakPhoenix
Load Up Blast Everything
DARKNESS.
#5 - 2013-06-05 03:54:53 UTC
Camera shake can be turned off under Display & Graphics in the escape menu, however I can understand how the camera alignment could cause motion sickness for some people. Perhaps an option that remove the aligning and just jumps the camera behind the stargate would help?
Stalker Dellacort
Sarpati Research Institute
#6 - 2013-06-05 04:01:03 UTC
I'm getting some serious motion sickness off the new stargate and jump bridge animations due to the forced camera rotation and warp tunnel effects. It's already to the point where I hate to move systems due to dealing with the animation without closing my eyes or something stupid. There needs to be a way for people to turn off the animation as I also think it is very distracting when moving around.
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-06-05 04:13:36 UTC
Stalker Dellacort wrote:
I'm getting some serious motion sickness off the new stargate and jump bridge animations due to the forced camera rotation and warp tunnel effects. It's already to the point where I hate to move systems due to dealing with the animation without closing my eyes or something stupid. There needs to be a way for people to turn off the animation as I also think it is very distracting when moving around.


Pretty much this. I have been home from work for seven hours now, I undocked, made three jumps, got nauseated, made three jumps back while looking away from the monitor, docked up, and haven't been out since. Looked here for an option to turn it off, found out that there isn't one, unsubbed until said option is put in.

On the bright side, if they refuse, my corpmates who can tolerate this garbage will get a bunch of free **** when I leave.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-06-05 05:37:46 UTC
I want an option to turn it off too. I don't get motion sickness, but I get nostalgia and I become severely agitated when options are taken away from me. Like the jukebox.

Well I've got to go back to the padded room now. My meds are wearing off...

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Stalker Dellacort
Sarpati Research Institute
#9 - 2013-06-05 05:50:09 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
I want an option to turn it off too. I don't get motion sickness, but I get nostalgia and I become severely agitated when options are taken away from me. Like the jukebox.

Well I've got to go back to the padded room now. My meds are wearing off...


Hey ya I always forget to mention the jukebox. CCP why did you take away my ability to continuously repeat Below The Asteroids while flying?
Maruk Ihnati
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#10 - 2013-06-05 06:05:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Maruk Ihnati
I also support this. I understand there is no more old system, but i would really like an option to turn it off, or fade it away, anything.
Commander Ted
Syndicate Enterprise
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#11 - 2013-06-05 06:13:19 UTC
Stalker Dellacort wrote:


Hey ya I always forget to mention the jukebox. CCP why did you take away my ability to continuously repeat Below The Asteroids while flying?


There vision is more important than what you want, thats why you can't disable clouds even if they cause mega lag.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.

Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-06-05 06:42:45 UTC
I'm not prone to motion sickness myself, the worst I ever feel is a sharply sinking/dropping feeling in my bladder when falling long distances in some first-person games, but I support this. At the very least I'd like to see the lockout on camera controls removed. Not being able to pan the camera up until the last minute is annoying, and potentially dangerous, and if you could pan the camera in the "jump tube" some people might be able to diminish if not eliminate their issues with it.
J Random
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#13 - 2013-06-05 06:58:07 UTC  |  Edited by: J Random
Just going to ditto this. These transition affects are driving my brain nuts and I find myself simply looking away at the wall when I jump now which is going to end up killing me on a gate camp one of these days. This is the worst visual change (on my eyes and brain) since the day the new font was introduced (which rendered the gate unplayable for me for about a month until they fixed it)
Slaktoid
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-06-05 07:17:50 UTC
I agree with you OP.

It's stupid and completely unnecessary. Same thing with wormholes. When you select and jump through it, the game zooms in on the wormhole for a while, and when you're through it zooms out again. Completely arbitrary and unnecessary. It looks ugly as well, so I just don't see any justification for this.

Stupid...
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#15 - 2013-06-05 07:22:45 UTC
I expected crying on the forums after Odyssey hit. I didn't expect crying about wormhole effects.

You can disable camera shake in the ESC menu, like BlakPhoenix said. As for the camera aligning, that's the Tracking Camera and you can turn it off by pressing "C". You can also click the top corner of the "Selected Item" menu and disable it there.

How exactly are you playing EVE up until now with your tracking camera enabled and not getting motion sickness, but you only do it now?
Aya Shinomiya
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-06-05 08:20:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Aya Shinomiya
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
How exactly are you playing EVE up until now with your tracking camera enabled and not getting motion sickness, but you only do it now?


The Tracking Camera appears with Odyssey. Before there was none. I believe there are many things like this in EVE Online which are totally unnecessary and disturb, not help, a fluid gameplay. Only my opinion.

There are many ways to solve such problems with less unsteady and dramatical effects.

E.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8F2FyiNbXk .

Aspecially if you travel long routes and you do not want to use the autopilot you stare a long time on the screen. I tell what I saw:

Traveling from the station to the gate (jump on top). The ship quivers while entering and leaving warp travel. Than jumping. The camera anligned to the gate in a very aggressive and fast swing and in the same second you move fast through this tunnel flash light effect. On the other side you see this distortion effect. After it the camera alignes to the gate. You choose your jump gate to jump and the camera alignes again. And this whole sequence for many systems. I cannot believe that there are people who do not get headache from this after a while.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#17 - 2013-06-05 08:53:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
Add your support to changing this in Official Odyssey Feedback Thread.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#18 - 2013-06-05 08:54:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
Aya Shinomiya wrote:
The Tracking Camera appears with Odyssey. Before there was none.


Actually the Tracking Camera was in before Odyssey...it came with Retribution.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#19 - 2013-06-05 08:57:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
How exactly are you playing EVE up until now with your tracking camera enabled and not getting motion sickness, but you only do it now?


I've had the Tracking Camera enabled since Retribution if I'm traveling and want to see something a bit different but it's a lot more severe with the whole "Pan around the stargate, jump through, pan around again and then focus on the next stargate" effect that shipped with Odyssey.

It does make you queasy after a while I have to admit and I've added my thoughts on this to the Official Odyssey Feedback Thread.
r00t b33r
Coalition of Brutality
Warped Intentions
#20 - 2013-06-05 08:59:45 UTC
There are obvious frame rate spikes with the new jumping effect (and also undocking). My PC is no slouch but turn on the frame rate monitor with ctrl+F and see if the game is significantly dropping frames during the animation. Low frame rates in games can make anyone get headaches or slight motion sickness. This is heightened by the fast animation through a tunnel. When a person gets motion sickness while driving a car, there are symptoms such as if there are rows of trees on either side of the row, it will start to look like a slide show. I'm pretty sure this has a relation to low frame rates in games visibly simulate motion sickness, and can cause it by this affect. Another note is the ear is in tune with what the eye sees. The sound effects for traveling through the jump gates is smooth while the visuals are not. It must be mentioned that no one has said anything about undocking. The first couple seconds of undocking I notice frames dropping as well. I'm not a game designer so I don't know what is causing this or how to improve it but this is surely one of the reasons why people are getting headaches/nausea.

I for one love the automatic camera and jump animation. It definitely seems like getting to the next system is quicker. I find myself going a few jumps and before I realize it I'm at the destination. Also having the automatic camera makes it easy for me to look at things in space that are on my overview by clicking them, instead of waving around the mouse trying to find stuff. However I understand why some people are getting motion sickness. On my older machine I tried running 2 clients across 2 1080p monitors which was rendering similar to 4 full-screen clients at the same time. It didn't pan out the way I wanted because going through warp the frame rate was not smooth and caused me to feel sick. This is similar to what the new jump animation does.

I'm happy with the changes and additions but it must be noted the frame rate drop during undocking and jumping sequences.

My specs are i7-2600 @ 3.4GHz 8 GB DDR3 RAM 180GB SSD NVidia GTX 650 Ti BOOST SuperClocked

The frame rate stutters several times through jump tunnels and also noticeable after undocking. Main reason why some people don't notice the frame rate drop is because of the high speed of the animation in the tunnel. Once you notice it's very obvious.
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