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Suicide Ganking: coming to an end?

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LuminousAxle
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#101 - 2011-11-06 01:55:20 UTC
Tippia wrote:
LuminousAxle wrote:
Would this change also act as an isk sink?
Nope.


Ok. But wouldn't this change at least stop new Isk being created by the insurance company after a gank.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#102 - 2011-11-06 01:58:05 UTC
LuminousAxle wrote:
Ok. But wouldn't this change at least stop new Isk being created by the insurance company after a gank.
Yes. It makes a faucet activate ever so slightly less often.
Dalloway Jones
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#103 - 2011-11-06 02:01:56 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Meatbag Pussrocket wrote:
What do you think: is this the end of suicide ganking as we know it, or the beginning of something more devious?
It had better not be, or they'll need to massively nerf CONCORD to make ganking much easier than it is right now.


The only way they could make ganking much easier than it is right now is to have every Thrasher group or Brutix have a big red button on their dashboard that says "press this to asplode a hulk".
Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2011-11-06 02:05:43 UTC
I dont understand the issue? You can still get ganked...you just wont be paid insurance for doing a criminal act. Whats the issue again?

"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB
Hamster Too
Golden Fowl
#105 - 2011-11-06 02:06:49 UTC
Anyone claiming that high-sec is safe is talking out of his (or hers) a**...

There is absolutely nothing to stop you from killing anybody, anytime in high-sec. You just have to be prepared to either [a] accept the consequences of engaging in non-consensual combat or [b] spending your time and effort in tricking the target to give you the right to fire without Concord showing up and rudely interrupting you the fun you are having with him.

You don't like people feeling safe? You are free to dispel that feeling at any time. Your unwillingness to pay the price in ISK or effort is not the reason to change the high-sec.

The insurance was a crutch. A thick layer of bubble wrap making sure that the ganker did not get hurt by a failed gank. Its removal will not stop the professionals that are adept at judging the value of potential payout, nor will it stop people ganking for the LOLs. The only people who will be butthurt by it will be the inept ones who were in effect playing EVE in a very easy mode.
Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#106 - 2011-11-06 02:09:44 UTC
I'd support removing concord if you could no longer biomass negative sec status and neg sec status wasn't allowed in high sec and trials were weapons locked in HS against players. Then suicide all you want, but farm back up your rep.
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#107 - 2011-11-06 02:15:09 UTC
Dalloway Jones wrote:
The only way they could make ganking much easier than it is right now is to have every Thrasher group or Brutix have a big red button on their dashboard that says "press this to asplode a hulk".
Considering how rare ganks are, there is obviously quite a bit that can be done to make them easier.
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
How so?
Because griefing is a bannable offence. The other two “how so”s are answered by the assertions they follow. You need a different question for those.
Hamster Too wrote:
There is absolutely nothing to stop you from killing anybody, anytime in high-sec.
…and yet, that doesn't happen. It doesn't happen because highsec is defined by having costs tied to all kinds of aggression. The problem is that when these costs get too high, the aggression drastically decreases and thus makes highsec too safe.

We have long since had that situation: ganks are ridiculously rare because the costs have been increased time and time again over the years. Highsec is now far too safe. This change makes it even safer.
Quote:
You don't like people feeling safe?
Only if it's a false safety. Otherwise, it starts to negatively affect the economy.
Quote:
Your unwillingness to pay the price in ISK or effort is not the reason to change the high-sec.
You do realise that this is an argument against the removal of insurance, don't you?
Takashi X2
State War Academy
Caldari State
#108 - 2011-11-06 02:19:24 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Selinate wrote:
If you find someone floating around in space with a ton of expensive stuff in their cargo hold and want to suicide gank them, fine, but you really shouldn't get the majority of the isk loss from your lost ship back also... It's rather one-sided in favor of the suicide gankers in that case.
It's only one-sided if the victim chooses to make it one-sided by not equipping his ship properly, by not flying it properly, and by not enforcing the consequences on the aggressor.


Outta curiosity if the enemey brings 50 BS's to gank a Freighter full of really expensive cargo flying through high sec gate to gate instead of autopiloting how is that anywhere near fair to the frieghter pilot? You cant fit it better and gate to gate is the quickest way to do it. You cant fly with support against that many enemies and theres no real way to know if they are coming for you some times even if you have scouts 3 systems out.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#109 - 2011-11-06 02:22:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Takashi X2 wrote:
Outta curiosity if the enemey brings 50 BS's to gank a Freighter full of really expensive cargo flying through high sec gate to gate instead of autopiloting how is that anywhere near fair to the frieghter pilot? You cant fit it better and gate to gate is the quickest way to do it. You cant fly with support against that many enemies and theres no real way to know if they are coming for you some times even if you have scouts 3 systems out.
If you can't spot a 50 BS gank, you need to fire your scouts. It's fair to the freighter pilot because it's so easy to spot and evade.
MeestaPenni wrote:
This padawan, "gets it."
Not quite yet. He still needs to match the question to the claim. Also, he needs to not troll with pointless repetition.
Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2011-11-06 02:24:03 UTC
Takashi X2 wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Selinate wrote:
If you find someone floating around in space with a ton of expensive stuff in their cargo hold and want to suicide gank them, fine, but you really shouldn't get the majority of the isk loss from your lost ship back also... It's rather one-sided in favor of the suicide gankers in that case.
It's only one-sided if the victim chooses to make it one-sided by not equipping his ship properly, by not flying it properly, and by not enforcing the consequences on the aggressor.


Outta curiosity if the enemey brings 50 BS's to gank a Freighter full of really expensive cargo flying through high sec gate to gate instead of autopiloting how is that anywhere near fair to the frieghter pilot? You cant fit it better and gate to gate is the quickest way to do it. You cant fly with support against that many enemies and theres no real way to know if they are coming for you some times even if you have scouts 3 systems out.



I would like to know the answer to this as well.

"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB
Soporo
#111 - 2011-11-06 02:25:29 UTC
Hamster Too wrote:
Anyone claiming that high-sec is safe is talking out of his (or hers) a**...

There is absolutely nothing to stop you from killing anybody, anytime in high-sec. You just have to be prepared to either

[a] accept the consequences of engaging in non-consensual combat or

[b] spending your time and effort in tricking the target to give you the right to fire without Concord showing up and rudely interrupting you the fun you are having with him.

You don't like people feeling safe? You are free to dispel that feeling at any time. Your unwillingness to pay the price in ISK or effort is not the reason to change the high-sec.

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. - H.L. Mencken
Takashi X2
State War Academy
Caldari State
#112 - 2011-11-06 02:25:32 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Takashi X2 wrote:
Outta curiosity if the enemey brings 50 BS's to gank a Freighter full of really expensive cargo flying through high sec gate to gate instead of autopiloting how is that anywhere near fair to the frieghter pilot? You cant fit it better and gate to gate is the quickest way to do it. You cant fly with support against that many enemies and theres no real way to know if they are coming for you some times even if you have scouts 3 systems out.
If you can't spot a 50 BS gank, you need to fire your scouts. It's fair to the freighter pilot because it's so easy to spot and evade.
MeestaPenni wrote:
This padawan, "gets it."
Not quite yet. He still needs to match the question to the claim.



High sec isnt like 0.0 there are many ways and routes around and to your sides. Just cuz your flying in a straight line doesnt mean they are which means even if you many scouts its still almost impossible to know. Especially if they are all docked up in a station waiting for you to pass through before undocking in which case there is no way to know.
Selinate
#113 - 2011-11-06 02:31:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Selinate
Tippia wrote:
Takashi X2 wrote:
Outta curiosity if the enemey brings 50 BS's to gank a Freighter full of really expensive cargo flying through high sec gate to gate instead of autopiloting how is that anywhere near fair to the frieghter pilot? You cant fit it better and gate to gate is the quickest way to do it. You cant fly with support against that many enemies and theres no real way to know if they are coming for you some times even if you have scouts 3 systems out.
If you can't spot a 50 BS gank, you need to fire your scouts. It's fair to the freighter pilot because it's so easy to spot and evade.


Right, because it's unheard of for a BS fleet aligning on a gate while a small frig sits on a gate looking for big prey, and then the BS fleet warps in and suicide ganks the freighter.

Or a fleet using log off mechanics for the same thing.

No, they should definitely lose their BS's either way, it's not fair.

Tippia wrote:

MeestaPenni wrote:
This padawan, "gets it."
Not quite yet. He still needs to match the question to the claim. Also, he needs to not troll with pointless repetition.


And you're any different how? Here's the hint, you're not.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#114 - 2011-11-06 02:33:21 UTC
I have to say I feel vindicated in my years long campaign to remove insurance.

While I'd like to see it removed completely less one month for new players, it's a step in the right direction.

It's not about the ganking for me. Ganking is a part of the game and I dare say a fun part of the game. It won't affect that much. Just lessen the random griefers doing it for the lulz.

No, for me it's about what EVE is supposed to be. To paraphrase Pierre Eliot Trudeau: The powers that be have no place in the bedrooms of EVE. In other words, CCP's role should not be that of a nanny. This is a sandbox. A player run economy. Insurance is not in the spirit of that philosophy.

If someone wants insurance then make a corporation that specializes in it.

I see this as a positive move and can only be good for EVE in the long run.

Mr Epeen Cool
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#115 - 2011-11-06 02:38:05 UTC
Takashi X2 wrote:
High sec isnt like 0.0 there are many ways and routes around and to your sides.
…and that is why ganks are so easy to avoid.
Selinate wrote:
Right, because it's unheard of for a BS fleet aligning on a gate while a small frig sits on a gate looking for big prey
…in which case it can be spotted.
Quote:
And you're any different how?
For one, I don't troll. People prefer to think so when I push them into a corner and they can't get out, but that doesn't actually make it a troll. I repeat questions when the respondent fails to answer them or tries to evade them, but that was not what he was doing. So the difference is quite significant.
MeestaPenni wrote:
7/10
Which part do you disagree with, and why?
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#116 - 2011-11-06 02:39:39 UTC
Damn it, now I won't be able to use a 1400 Tempest to blap mackinaws just for ~kicks~

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#117 - 2011-11-06 02:40:31 UTC
Andski wrote:
Damn it, now I won't be able to use a 1400 Tempest to blap mackinaws just for ~kicks~
Nah. You have to use Catalysts instead… poor you. Blink
Takashi X2
State War Academy
Caldari State
#118 - 2011-11-06 02:41:31 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Takashi X2 wrote:
High sec isnt like 0.0 there are many ways and routes around and to your sides.
…and that is why ganks are so easy to avoid.
Selinate wrote:
Right, because it's unheard of for a BS fleet aligning on a gate while a small frig sits on a gate looking for big prey
…in which case it can be spotted.
Quote:
And you're any different how?
For one, I don't troll. People prefer to think so when I push them into a corner and they can't get out, but that doesn't actually make it a troll. I repeat questions when the respondent fails to answer them or tries to evade them, but that was not what he was doing. So the difference is quite significant.
MeestaPenni wrote:
7/10
Which part do you disagree with, and why?

Why did you skip the quote about the log on trap and stations?
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#119 - 2011-11-06 02:41:50 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Andski wrote:
Damn it, now I won't be able to use a 1400 Tempest to blap mackinaws just for ~kicks~
Nah. You have to use Catalysts instead… poor you. Blink


Losing a Brutix entirely is cheaper than losing a fully insured Tempest in any case, but it was hilarious.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#120 - 2011-11-06 02:45:05 UTC
Takashi X2 wrote:
Why did you skip the quote about the log on trap and stations?
Because I missed in the mass of quotes.

Log-on trap is beaten by warping in spurts and changing direction in the middle of nowhere. The trap hinges on the enemy scout being able to see where you're warping so people can log in and get ready on the other side. If you don't go to the gate you warp out towards, the trap fails.