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Dev Blog: Alliance Tournament XI... and a call for commentators!

First post First post
Author
Tyrrax Thorrk
Guiding Hand Social Club
#121 - 2013-05-17 16:51:10 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
Rather than crying about how unfair this is on the forums, why don't you just form up your fleets in your current alliance and do you best?


I won't fly with PL's AT team because I want to win with my own team - which I've been fielding since the first alliance tournament,

Also because PL was way too dominant in the alliance tournament when I originally joined them for some fun pew pew, woulda felt like a lame winning team joiner if I abandoned my old team to join theirs.

Soldarius wrote:
Stop complaining about how "unfair" this is, when it perfectly fair, and a far sight better than what has happened the the last couple ATs.


CCP had established a precedent of giving advance notice of when the cutoff date for membership was, this time they pulled the rug out from under everyone preparing for the tournament by not doing so.
There's nothing fair about it, so complaining about it is perfectly reasonable.

CCP should let us know before they make major changes to the tournament, hell maybe even discuss things with their players / CSM / participants.
Darius JOHNSON
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#122 - 2013-05-17 17:14:58 UTC
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:
Soldarius wrote:
Rather than crying about how unfair this is on the forums, why don't you just form up your fleets in your current alliance and do you best?


I won't fly with PL's AT team because I want to win with my own team - which I've been fielding since the first alliance tournament,

Also because PL was way too dominant in the alliance tournament when I originally joined them for some fun pew pew, woulda felt like a lame winning team joiner if I abandoned my old team to join theirs.

Soldarius wrote:
Stop complaining about how "unfair" this is, when it perfectly fair, and a far sight better than what has happened the the last couple ATs.


CCP had established a precedent of giving advance notice of when the cutoff date for membership was, this time they pulled the rug out from under everyone preparing for the tournament by not doing so.
There's nothing fair about it, so complaining about it is perfectly reasonable.

CCP should let us know before they make major changes to the tournament, hell maybe even discuss things with their players / CSM / participants.


The purpose of said notice was never so people could jump to their vanity corps. The reason for the cutoff was always to specifically prevent that. I'm not sure what the thought was here, perhaps an oversight or perhaps on purpose but there was NEVER an instance of the ALLIANCE TOURNAMENT where having people jump corps/alliances was desirable. The rules were always in place to discourage that or try to prevent it. I'm not sure I have a lot of sympathy for people being upset that they'll have to stay in their actual alliances for the alliance tournament.
Tyrrax Thorrk
Guiding Hand Social Club
#123 - 2013-05-17 17:27:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk
I know that wasn't its purpose, simply pointing out that changing from having some warning as it's always been in the past over to "petition us and we might let you join your team" isn't particularly "fair" as the above poster was claiming.

All the cutoff did was discourage, not specifically prevent - which was a good thing for the competitiveness of the tournament, it meant people who were actually serious about the tournament could still do their thing if they were willing to make the sacrifice of their time in forming teams like Seldarine's , DHB Wildcat's and basically helping every team that isn't like PL or GoonSwarm and might actually need to do some moving around to be capable of fielding a competitive team.

As for your sympathy wasn't aware you had any for anyone ever so that's not saying much ;O
CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
#124 - 2013-05-18 18:30:04 UTC
I have removed some trolling from this thread.

EVE Online/DUST 514 Community Representative ※ EVE Illuminati ※ Fiction Adept

@CCP_Eterne ※ @EVE_LiveEvents

Jump SuperCaps Now
Doomheim
#125 - 2013-05-19 15:33:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Jump SuperCaps Now
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Look at it this way: that Alliance Tournament is essentially the Olympic Games of EVE. People can move from one country to another, but it's intended that you represent the country that you claim as your own the whole year round.


Interesting statement. So what defines the home alliance? Lets take sports and the olympic look even further here.

Cristiano Renaldo - famous soccer player (yes im american) who plays for "Spanish" club Real Madrid, but is the captain of the portuguese national team. Meaning he lives and plays most of his soccer in spain with a spanish team, but represents portugul in the olympics and world cup.

In america - we have many cuban born players that live and play baseball in america their entire adult lives, but every 4 years represent (or used to before the olympics dropped baseball) Cuba in the olympics.

Many European born Basketball players (manu ginobli - argentina, Steve Nash - born in south africa, claims Canada as home country but lives in the US.)

I could go on for literrally pages upon poorly spelled pages. However the point is, that in your example people are allowed to live and work in another country other than the one they claim as their home.

Eve example coming to mind - Tyrrax Thorrk, claims Dystopia as home alliance, lives with PL. According to your Olympic example, this is acceptable.

In fact if you want to put limitations on alliances and they tournament then do it on the alliances and not the players.

I hope you'll realize that the best course of action is to just set a date a few days from now and say you must be in the alliance by then. Then after this alliance touranment you can put strict measures upon the alliances. Just give some warning, please.
Princess Saskia
Hyperfleet Industries
xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
#126 - 2013-05-21 10:37:27 UTC
CCP Eterne wrote:
I have removed some trolling from this thread.

Whilst in the process removing points about how people should stop crying and accept the new rules.

 ♥ 

Tyrrax Thorrk
Guiding Hand Social Club
#127 - 2013-05-22 16:04:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk
Unsurprisingly got a F U petition reply just now from CCP
Lord Booya
Doomheim
#128 - 2013-05-22 18:23:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Booya
Surprise, surprise...... The ex PL devs are putting in rules that guarantee a PL win in the tournament. GJ t-20 fozzie, GJ.

This is abuse of power, plain and simple.
DHB WildCat
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#129 - 2013-05-22 18:26:56 UTC  |  Edited by: DHB WildCat
Lord Booya wrote:
Surprise, surprise...... The ex PL devs are putting in rules that guarantee a PL win in the tournament. GJ t-20 fozzie, GJ.

This is abuse of power, plain and simple.




hmmmmmmm does make you scratch your head, but i wouldnt go that far as abuse of power. GL to everyone participating. I guess Im not worthy enough. Too bad, since tournaments are the only small gang warfare left in this game.
Boiglio
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2013-05-24 14:26:09 UTC
I received a response to my petition. I've always understood that discussing or sharing petition-based interactions with other players is considered not exactly kosher with CCP. CAStabouts is scrambling to determine our best path forward in light of your decisions. I need to know if I can share the response to my petition with my teammates so that we all have the same information/wording to work from going forward. I responded with a message in the petition system, but have not received a reply. Posting here in the hopes someone recognizes the need for timely feedback in one place or the other.

Always,

Boiglio

PS. I don't suppose there's any hope of additional point categories added to the tournament for things like "shopping in Jita", "combat probing", "manufacturing and research", or "organizing things into hangars"? Yeah, I didn't think so either. Ah well, never hurts to ask, right? What?
Cas Mania
We - are peaceful people
#131 - 2013-05-24 23:56:50 UTC
Shadoo wrote:
xo3e wrote:
Quote:
How do you determine "good"? I considered SCL #3 probably the most competitive EVE esports even I've ever watched so far. Is that not a definition of "good"?


my dota 2 premade games is competitive and intense too, but im not comparing it to The International.

i think that concerning the tournament, word "good" means that it has large viewership, good prize pool and challenge
i cant say that tournament is good if it has only one or two things of this list.

NEO online viewers count was lower than of avarage scrub dota2 stream with pudge hooking creeps. i cant call that a good tournament


So. Now that we've established that the chief complaint seems to be around viewership for "good" tournament, why do you think New Eden Open -- which is a very competitive TEAM BASED tournament with heavy weight teams such as "Goggle Wearing Internet Crime Fighters", "Blueballers" , "WhyDash" and "Expendables" so on competing for 10,000$ cash price didn't get those viewers?

Would it be a stretch to say it didn't get as many viewers because likes of TEST Alliance, Goonswarm, SOLAR, Red Alliance, Fatal Ascension, Northern Coalition., Nulli Secunda, RAZOR Alliance, etc etc etc weren't on roster and thus pulling their ~80k members to view their team fight against their friends/enemies/etc?

This is The Alliance Tournament. Not "Lets Make an Alliance for 2 Months Tournament", and while I have the greatest respect for competitive teams such as "Goggle Wearing Internet Crime Fighters" -- I tune in to view their teams in NEO/SCL. People who want to tune in to watch these great competitive teams will do so also.

But lets get real here -- people tune in to watch The Alliance Tournament because they expect to see their own alliance, their coalition and their enemies alliances get it on. Surely this new re-alignment and refocus is therefore fair and balanced for viewers and competition alike?


Um, Nulli Secunda was on the roster.

Locking the alliances is only a good thing, and has been said before over and over exceptions will be made for extreme circumstances. The fact of the matter is, that for every team that can't play, like PLs B and C team, or goons entering 2 teams, is that leave a spot for another smaller alliance to pick up the spot and have a chance to shine.

There is talk about people who only play EVE to participate in the alliance tournament. The thing is that they form up their own alliance at the last second in order to compete. I know a lot of reference has been made to the Olympics, but this would be on par with starting your own country in order to compete. You must understand that the alliance tournament is not for these individuals, but for alliance based teams. These members need to stick with the alliance that they already are in, and help them become a compete team instead of running off to make a new alliance.

i applaud CCP, for these new rules. It will allow a lot of new blood into the tournament, a lot of teams that could rise up and surprise us, a lot more chances for the small alliances to form and compete. While their are a lot of tears about not being able to see your favorite pilots form up on one team and crushing everyone else, only good can come from this.

P.S. I actually think CCP should have gone back a few weeks or maybe even a month ago that you had to be in alliance in order to compete on a team.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#132 - 2013-05-26 22:27:41 UTC
Boiglio wrote:
I received a response to my petition. I've always understood that discussing or sharing petition-based interactions with other players is considered not exactly kosher with CCP. CAStabouts is scrambling to determine our best path forward in light of your decisions. I need to know if I can share the response to my petition with my teammates so that we all have the same information/wording to work from going forward. I responded with a message in the petition system, but have not received a reply. Posting here in the hopes someone recognizes the need for timely feedback in one place or the other.

Always,

Boiglio

PS. I don't suppose there's any hope of additional point categories added to the tournament for things like "shopping in Jita", "combat probing", "manufacturing and research", or "organizing things into hangars"? Yeah, I didn't think so either. Ah well, never hurts to ask, right? What?


I'll make sure the community guys get back to you asap, they understand the nuances of those rules better than I.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#133 - 2013-05-26 22:33:46 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Hey guys, we've now responded to the petitions we received over the past few weeks. I understand some of you will be unhappy with our decisions, and to be completely honest in many cases we felt terrible having to say no to people who care deeply about the tournament. However we do believe that this rule will lead to the best tournament over time and will hopefully be (along with vastly improved communication) part of the changes that will prevent the even more crushing events during the leadup to the last tournament that none of us want to see happen again.

In virtually all cases where we have said yes to requests for exceptions so far, the petitioners have all had a very similar set of circumstances, so we wanted to put those criteria here to show people a bit of the thought process that went into the decisions so far:

  • The character in question was not in any alliance at the time of the cutoff on May 15th.
  • The petitioning player wishes to rejoin the alliance that the character was most recently a member of.
  • The character in question has spent a significant amount of time in this alliance over the past year.

  • We have not so far been granting exceptions for corporations or players who were members of alliances on the 15th, as they are encouraged to compete with that alliance.

    Again, we're extremely sorry to those players whose petitions we have had to say no to, and we hope that as many of you as possible will be able to participate in EVE tournaments either in ATXI with your current alliances or in the next New Eden Open with an alliance-independent team.

    Game Designer | Team Five-0

    Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
    Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

    DHB WildCat
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #134 - 2013-05-27 02:19:46 UTC
    CCP Fozzie wrote:

  • The character in question was not in any alliance at the time of the cutoff on May 15th.



  • Well I guess im one of the very few that wasn't in an alliance for several months before the deadline, that wasn't allowed in....... darn 8(
    Garviel Tarrant
    Beyond Divinity Inc
    Shadow Cartel
    #135 - 2013-05-27 04:02:24 UTC
    Huh.. I totally forgot about the commentator thing..

    Oh well..

    BYDI recruitment closed-ish

    CCP Fozzie
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #136 - 2013-05-27 09:05:16 UTC
    DHB WildCat wrote:
    CCP Fozzie wrote:

  • The character in question was not in any alliance at the time of the cutoff on May 15th.

  • Well I guess im one of the very few that wasn't in an alliance for several months before the deadline, that wasn't allowed in....... darn 8(

    CCP Fozzie wrote:

  • The petitioning player wishes to rejoin the alliance that the character was most recently a member of.
  • You are always welcome to rejoin the alliance you were most recently a member of before May 15th.

    Game Designer | Team Five-0

    Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
    Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

    DHB WildCat
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #137 - 2013-05-27 11:26:47 UTC  |  Edited by: DHB WildCat
    CCP Fozzie wrote:
    DHB WildCat wrote:
    CCP Fozzie wrote:

  • The character in question was not in any alliance at the time of the cutoff on May 15th.

  • Well I guess im one of the very few that wasn't in an alliance for several months before the deadline, that wasn't allowed in....... darn 8(

    CCP Fozzie wrote:

  • The petitioning player wishes to rejoin the alliance that the character was most recently a member of.
  • You are always welcome to rejoin the alliance you were most recently a member of before May 15th.



    lol so i can rejoin my home alliance right after the tourney flying for Suddenly Spaceships? Lol isnt that what you are eliminating here? No I think not, like I said I in my petition Suddenly blued everything in sight. They are not my alliance, Anyways gl with the tourney. I sincerely hope you get enough teams for a full 64 team tourney. I hope NEO was a fluke in that reguard. Many of these smaller alliances that do not have the moon income simply cannot afford to participate competetively. I know all of the teams I participated in were funded by 4 guys, and I know of at least 20 teams that were the same way, all of which will not be participating.

    It will be interesting to see how this turns out. Its either going to be the best tourney ever with a wide open field. Or its literally going to be 5 teams steamrolling everyone with no competition until the semis, and the finals. Like I said, it will be very interesting to see how this turns out. 8)
    Iridescent Star
    Iridescent Dawn
    CAStabouts
    #138 - 2013-05-27 17:50:58 UTC
    CCP Fozzie wrote:
    Hey guys, we've now responded to the petitions we received over the past few weeks.



    FYI, The petition to see if my corp would still qualify for the Alliance Tournament has not been responded to.

    Thanks,
    Me
    CCP Fozzie
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #139 - 2013-05-27 17:53:44 UTC
    Iridescent Star wrote:
    CCP Fozzie wrote:
    Hey guys, we've now responded to the petitions we received over the past few weeks.



    FYI, The petition to see if my corp would still qualify for the Alliance Tournament has not been responded to.

    Thanks,
    Me


    Your petition was responded to on 2013.05.22 14:03:00 by CCP Gargant.

    Game Designer | Team Five-0

    Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
    Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

    Iridescent Star
    Iridescent Dawn
    CAStabouts
    #140 - 2013-05-27 18:28:32 UTC
    CCP Fozzie wrote:


    Your petition was responded to on 2013.05.22 14:03:00 by CCP Gargant.


    Doh! Guess I need to file more petitions, did not see where the response was.Oops Thanks for the quick response to my post.

    CCP Fozzie = Best Fozzie