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Dev Blog: Alliance Tournament XI... and a call for commentators!

First post First post
Author
Nam Dnilb
Universal Frog
#81 - 2013-05-15 19:50:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Nam Dnilb
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey guys. The early cutoff was put in place because we intend the Alliance Tournament to be about people representing their alliances, whatever that alliance may be, instead of the kind of club-team system you see with the NEO or SCL (which help fill that need very well).

In cases where a corp or member are caught by surprise outside of *their* alliance for one reason or another, we can make exceptions to get them back in. What we don't want is people jumping from one alliance to another just for the tournament.

Look at it this way: that Alliance Tournament is essentially the Olympic Games of EVE. People can move from one country to another, but it's intended that you represent the country that you claim as your own the whole year round.

If you have a request for an exception, send a petition to the community queue and we'll take a look. But if you're trying to move from your home alliance to another one just for the tournament, I don't expect we'll grant those requests.


Well, I don't have any cards in this game, but I'll say the Olympic Charta usually doesn't get get changed by saying, "Rules changed yesterday, deal with it". They handle their issues handing over suitcases full of *cough*, ermh probably.


Anyway, changing a decade old rule, then handling the inevitable fallout case by case in petitions is going to generate the maximum work load for CCP and leads to threadnaughting on the forums. I don't think this is a good way of handling this.
Sven Hammerstorm
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#82 - 2013-05-15 19:58:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Sven Hammerstorm
How to make a good tournament: stop as many of the competent teams from entering as possible with a sneak rule change

I mean, I dont want to watch random **** alliance x that got through the lottery to fail in all of their games and get eliminated.

I want to see teams that *want* to be in the tournament and actually practice for it.

This rule seems to be aimed to stop these kind of teams from competing.

The sad truth is, that while there is some novelty to just having *only* alliances competing, nobody wants to watch couple of retards flailing at each other and eating sand.
IceGuerilla
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#83 - 2013-05-15 20:02:50 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Dracoth Simertet wrote:
IceGuerilla wrote:
So to sum up, people barred from competition due to rule so far:


  • DHB Wildcat
  • Tyrrax Thorrk
  • Perihelion Alliance
  • People from RvB (possibly)


Anyone else I've forgotten?


We aren't barred just messed about a bit, out of interest how is Perihelion affected?

o7
Drac


As an 8-year veteran of the game, I've been running and financing Perihelion as a bunch of my friends who want to participate in the tourney. I guess we're not "Alliance" enough for this tourney... Straight
Dracoth Simertet
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
#84 - 2013-05-15 20:10:43 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
IceGuerilla wrote:
Dracoth Simertet wrote:
IceGuerilla wrote:
So to sum up, people barred from competition due to rule so far:


  • DHB Wildcat
  • Tyrrax Thorrk
  • Perihelion Alliance
  • People from RvB (possibly)


Anyone else I've forgotten?


We aren't barred just messed about a bit, out of interest how is Perihelion affected?

o7
Drac


As an 8-year veteran of the game, I've been running and financing Perihelion as a bunch of my friends who want to participate in the tourney. I guess we're not "Alliance" enough for this tourney... Straight



Ah right, that sucks, I'd assumed you guys where a regular alliance and not a tourny team. Best of luck anyways fingers crossed maybe you can get something sorted out.

o7
Drac
Shobon Welp
GoonFleet
Band of Brothers
#85 - 2013-05-15 20:12:12 UTC
IceGuerilla wrote:
As an 8-year veteran of the game, I've been running and financing Perihelion as a bunch of my friends who want to participate in the tourney. I guess we're not "Alliance" enough for this tourney... Straight


The point of the AT isn't to clog up the entries with shell alliances who only exist as a tournament team.
Gogela
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#86 - 2013-05-15 20:31:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Gogela
The Alliance Tournament is better than the Super Bowl. Nothing like popping up the HD stream on your TV and killing some beers to high level small gang PvP at it's best. Looking forward to it! Big smile

Go Rooks and Kings!

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Antoine Jordan
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#87 - 2013-05-15 20:36:09 UTC
Hopefully the CAS team gets the exception they deserve and aren't barred from the tournament due to the audacity of actually trying to bring new players into PvP via NPC corp mechanics.
Draekas Darkwater
Frank Exchange of Views
#88 - 2013-05-15 21:08:36 UTC
Its a silly decision. When has the AT ever truly been about alliances? The entire alliance is never involved, except those made specifically for these events. Instead the alliances get volunteers and make up teams from their membership who then practice together for weeks to get ready for the competition.

1000+ man alliances aren't competing here, its just a tiny subset of them that do. I highly doubt that any alliance team just bring in any random scrub from their alliance to play in a match, unless they are desperate. Its disingenuous to say otherwise, and this rule is just silly.
Helen Connor
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#89 - 2013-05-15 21:29:32 UTC
Ouch.
Seijen
Perkone
Caldari State
#90 - 2013-05-15 21:32:00 UTC
Draekas Darkwater wrote:
Its a silly decision. When has the AT ever truly been about alliances? The entire alliance is never involved, except those made specifically for these events. Instead the alliances get volunteers and make up teams from their membership who then practice together for weeks to get ready for the competition.

1000+ man alliances aren't competing here, its just a tiny subset of them that do. I highly doubt that any alliance team just bring in any random scrub from their alliance to play in a match, unless they are desperate. Its disingenuous to say otherwise, and this rule is just silly.


I think you hit the nail on the head. This is hardly about an alliance but merely a group of elite high ranking and high SP'd alliance members who participate without question or happen to be friends of the right people. If this is an effort to marginalize unfortunate players new to the game without over 150 million SP or those who don't know the "who's who" of EVE then congratulations you did it.
Draekas Darkwater
Frank Exchange of Views
#91 - 2013-05-15 21:55:17 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Look at it this way: that Alliance Tournament is essentially the Olympic Games of EVE. People can move from one country to another, but it's intended that you represent the country that you claim as your own the whole year round.


That's a horrible RL example to use though. Characters in eve move around all the time. They belong to corporations more than alliances, and entire corps move from alliance to alliance all the time as well. Making the tourney corporation based would be more in line with this line of thought. Hell for some giggles, make it based on empire faction or bloodline of origin. LOL

Being honest though, why not just change the AT into a NEC (New Eden Championships)? The NEO, SCL and any other tourneys can be primers for the yearly tournament of tournaments featuring the best teams out there for the most amazing prizes?

I know the AT has a lot of history, hell I got into EVE by hearing about and watching this crazy thing called EVE Alliance tournament 2. But if you really want to evolve EVE Esports properly, then maybe its time to do so?
Boiglio
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2013-05-15 22:01:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Boiglio
A quick post to say that...

1) Boiglio will be filing a petition. I'm trying to get in touch with at least one of our two AT organizers today before I file, but if I don't hear from them--filing anyhow. Please don't consider that delay as having anything to do with a lack of concern or priority on either my part or that of my team.

2) I'm absolutely heartsick that an idea that I've generally advocated for in the past (alliance tournaments should be about people that actually fly for those alliances) is now coming back to bar me from the tournament because of a lack of notice on CCP's part. To clarify for those that may read this with some alarm, Boiglio is NOT leaving CAS, even for the AT which she has looked forward to flying in since she began playing Eve. CAS will be flying our alts in the tourney, since our mains are not in a recognized player corp alliance. This ruling affects us some, because we were waiting until the details for the tourney were announced before doing things like figuring out whose alts were going to need what, who might need to do some character transfers, and who might need to have their alt-corp join the alliance. (CAS is a little backward that way, many of us have player corp alts to support NPC corp mains--Boiglio is one of the few who do not, and that is ironically what has her in trouble now.)

3) We don't generally do a lot of talking on forums, and tend to be careful about overstepping our bounds when speaking "on behalf of the group", but I'm not going out on much of a limb to say this much: On behalf of 8CAS and those that supported us throughout our time in the New Eden Open, thank you so much. Whatever the NEO meant to other alliances, the rest of the Eve playerbase, to OWN, and to CCP; for the 8CAS team it meant a chance to fly together in our first competitive arena setting, getting to do so on our main pilots, and taking our shot at showing what we might be able to do. For our corp, our community, it was a chance to be represented on a stage few thought they'd ever see. It should be noted that for each of our matches, CAS chat hit numbers that averaged about +500 from normal. People wanted to see us, wanted to root for *their* team. After the NEO our numbers spiked in all our community activities, including people spending time to visit/live in Syndicate. If not for the time it took to deal with our increased popularity, perhaps some of us might have kept closer tabs on the forums and organized a CAS entry for the SCL. ;) That is definitely still in our plans, as are all further NEOs, but after some soul-searching almost two years ago now--we decided that we can still remain true to the spirit of flying together with the people you fly with day in and day out in the alliance tournament by using alts. I guess we come in somewhat like RvB? A community that internally knows itself very well, and that most outside the community have a vague idea is "out there", even if they aren't sure who the movers and shakers are within the group. My petition will be filed only for me to hopefully get the administrative paperwork in place to reflect what is already known--my home alliance, my place, is with CAS.

Thanks in advance for overlooking the (even more than usual) rambling nature of this post. I'm still absolutely crushed at the idea that I've even inadvertently let my team down. I fly with some really great pilots, great people, that deserve to take their best shot at the big stage that is the alliance tournament.

~A crestfallen Boiglio
Professor Clio
Apocalypse Lancers
Hole Tanking
#93 - 2013-05-15 22:20:08 UTC
It does sound like CCP is trying in good faith to limit "artificial tourney only alliances" but that they'll grant exceptions where it makes sense to do so. I'm pretty hopeful that our case and others presented here will be resolved in a satisfactory manner. I guess I'm an eternal optimist that way.
DHB WildCat
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#94 - 2013-05-15 23:36:35 UTC  |  Edited by: DHB WildCat
My only real thought about limiting the alliances for the alliance tourney is to do just that.... let me explain.

Alliances come and go all the time. For the "alliance" tourney. If you are going to limit anything, limit the age of the alliance. I will use the example of "The Five" from tournaments past or Goggle wearing internet crime fighters. They were formed solely for the tournaments. This is what it sounds like CCP wishes to stop. However people come and go from alliances / corps all the time. My suggestion is to limit the age on the alliance, not to limit the individual player.

Let people join established alliances. This way everyone still has a chance to participate, but they just cannot make a new alliance for it, they actually have to be in an alliance that already exists.

So.... instead of DHB-WildCat must be a member of Hydra before downtime...... It would be Hydra must be a created alliance of more than lets say 10 people (to avoid one man holding an alt in a fake alliance) to be eligible for the tournament.

Anyways just my idea.

Wild
Mizhir
TOP DAMAGE Ltd.
Trigger Happy.
#95 - 2013-05-15 23:41:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Mizhir
I must say I am really dissapointed by how it has been organized.

Letting the devblog come after the cutoff will just cause more problems than fixing them. Instead you should have set the cutoff day a few months back, but have informed that atleast 1 month ahead. Then people would still have been in the alliance for several months and they would have had a chance to join up.

Also. I find it kind of late to announce the dates. I had to pray that you would make it somewhat like last year when I booked my holiday. But seems like I will be stuck on Iceland for the first two weekends.... ohh the irony.

❤️️💛💚💙💜

Andrea Griffin
#96 - 2013-05-16 01:03:56 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Alliance Tournament is essentially the Olympic Games of EVE. People can move from one country to another, but it's intended that you represent the country that you claim as your own the whole year round.
I very much appreciate this and the intention behind it, and I'm sure a lot of others do as well. Thank you.
Zuzmaw
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#97 - 2013-05-16 03:28:10 UTC
Not Kil2
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#98 - 2013-05-16 05:09:35 UTC
Draekas Darkwater wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Look at it this way: that Alliance Tournament is essentially the Olympic Games of EVE. People can move from one country to another, but it's intended that you represent the country that you claim as your own the whole year round.


That's a horrible RL example to use though.

I like the example.

The Olympic Games didn't allow any professional athletes to participate for the longest time (and some disciplines still don't) because - although professional athletes might show a better performance than amateurs - they just didn't fit the ethos of the games.

Alliance-hopping players and dedicated tournament alliances are basically the equivalent of professional athletes in EVE.

.

Kesi Raae
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#99 - 2013-05-16 09:37:33 UTC
I associate Tyrrax with Dystopia and GHSC as in every tournament I've watched the commentators keep banging on about their association whenever it's relevant, so it would be a cruel move to not allow him in the Dystopia alliance team.

I have a challenge for the commentators If they don't allow him to compete: not to mention Tyrrax at all during the entire tournament.
Larkonis Trassler
Doctrine.
FEARLESS.
#100 - 2013-05-16 12:44:57 UTC