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Dev Blog: Alliance Tournament XI... and a call for commentators!

First post First post
Author
Sairait
CHON
THE R0NIN
#141 - 2013-05-27 20:41:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Sairait
I am not a fan of the early cut-off rule, though it doesn't affect R0NIN team all that much. We have couple of team members stranded, basically the same case as Tyrrax or DHB Wildcat (they've been to a different alliance since ATX/NEO). Unsuccessfull petition, tough luck :/

What I really dislike about the rule, is that it only more or less screws some of the experienced teams over other experienced ones, and the inexperienced teams will still have a tournament survival chance of snowflakes in hell.

I'm talking about teams, because (as has been pointed out by other posters here) in every alliance that has ever competed in the AT (and that ever will), it is always a team of individuals who do the most/all work, and the teams are always (or should be, in theory) very shielded from the rest of alliance due to EvE's nature of spying and meta games. There is no alliance in the alliance tournament, the alliances merely root for their champions.

Being good at the alliance tournament isn't only about good piloting and TQ pvp skills (even though that helps a lot). One needs to win or fail plenty of matches to learn all the tricks of trade, to know all the ins and outs of every setup, and to understand all the principles of making a good team composition. The good teams have evolved and specialized over the years, and they worked very hard to find the most efficient ship combinations, adopt the best tactics and practices, and to master the meta. Practice _makes_ perfect.

If you wanted to decrease the overall skill bar, and make the tournament more accessible for the newcoming alliances - you've probably succeeded to a certain extent. But even if you made 'more space' for these newcomers, I'm afraid the net result will only be that crap teams will survive a round or two longer, there will be more cripple-fights and cleansweeps, and the real deal will begin somewhere around the semi's.

I think you would be much better off, if you directly invited top 32 alliances by size, auctioned remaining 32 slots, and challenged the big names to bring a good team. You could even encourage them to enroll some tournament vets to help with organization, theory crafting and meta. I'm pretty sure that these days, there is plenty of guys out there, who have tons of tournament experience and no team to fly with, and who would be more than willing to coach someone (for a price or even without it).

This would make for one hell of an exciting tournament from the get go, because you would have a mix of the BIG names trying to prove their rightfull status or settle rivalry, with other big or mystery names - all the teams who tremendously enjoy these awesome events, and are willing to auction their slot to compete.

One last thought - I also liked the previous version of rule (call to the arms period), because part of the tournament fun was always - figuring out who's who, where are the infamous best theory-crafters, FC's and tournament captains, who's dangerous and worth watching (or spying on), and in what fights you really need to bring your best.
Ashina Sito
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#142 - 2013-05-28 06:43:22 UTC
Sairait wrote:
Well written Stuff


There is a simple answer to what your have said, The New Eden Open.

Everything you said can be done with the NEO. It is the reason why your seeing this change now. The Alliance Tourney should be about people who fly together, people who spend their time in Eve with each other because of a similar vision, view, experience or anything else they can find that makes them a group within the game. This has not been the case.

Abandoning your home so you can get together with others for a short stretch to play in the Alliance tournament goes against what the AT should be. If your primary focus is the AT then be in the alliance that you want to fight with/for. If you don't want to do that, then again, there is the NEO.

Personally I think CCP should have ether announced this earlier, so people could get into place months in advance or say now that next year they would harden the rules for the AT. Some groups got hammered very hard. RvB is probably the best known. They can't fight as one alliance since they are 2 yet if they field a Red team and a Blue team then they would be guilty of colluding. On top of that their pilots are spread across both Red and Blue.

The 8 CAS team from the NEO got hit as well. A year ago an Alliance was formed just to have a place to but alts so that we could field a team in the AT (this was before the NEO existed) since we are all perma-CAS. Would be nice if we could field a team for CAS or the Gallente Federation but such is life.

While the current changes are bad for AT XI, they are good changes for the AT in the future. Anyone who is not happy I am sure is more the welcome to field a team for the NEO.
Ophelia Aivoras
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#143 - 2013-05-28 09:34:08 UTC
Ashina Sito wrote:
Anyone who is not happy I am sure is more the welcome to field a team for the NEO.


How can you be talking about the future of NEO if the past one has not been closed properly yet?
I don't really see how it is going to develop with such an attitude.
DHB WildCat
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#144 - 2013-05-28 13:26:27 UTC
Ophelia Aivoras wrote:
Ashina Sito wrote:
Anyone who is not happy I am sure is more the welcome to field a team for the NEO.


How can you be talking about the future of NEO if the past one has not been closed properly yet?
I don't really see how it is going to develop with such an attitude.



As someone who placed in NEO..... I can say it was and still is a joke. Ive tried to be nice about it, but we are going on 6 months now without our prizes.

Why NEO wont / didnt succeed....

1) No prizes
2) Didnt even fill all the slots with teams
3) Too expensive

NEO is a joke with, so far, no rewards handed out.


Now a little tip for the smaller alliances getting ready to participate in this tourney. You are going to need a budget of over 100 billion isk. If you cant afford this, then you will get steamrolled, and tbh you'll just be wasting isk on entry fees. Most of this is going to come in implants that you will have to change out every fight depending on your set-ups. Also you'll have to have anywhere from 15-20 set-ups ready to go at any given time depending on the bans. You'll have to figure out how to attack and counter special edition ships.

I personally would have brought a cambion / etana / vangel / malice / adrestia to this tourney. I know others have more and are willing to use them as well. So gl to you all, and prepare for everything.

Have fun guys 07
Cas Mania
We - are peaceful people
#145 - 2013-05-29 03:17:23 UTC
DHB WildCat wrote:
Ophelia Aivoras wrote:
Ashina Sito wrote:
Anyone who is not happy I am sure is more the welcome to field a team for the NEO.


How can you be talking about the future of NEO if the past one has not been closed properly yet?
I don't really see how it is going to develop with such an attitude.



As someone who placed in NEO..... I can say it was and still is a joke. Ive tried to be nice about it, but we are going on 6 months now without our prizes.

Why NEO wont / didnt succeed....

1) No prizes
2) Didnt even fill all the slots with teams
3) Too expensive

NEO is a joke with, so far, no rewards handed out.


Now a little tip for the smaller alliances getting ready to participate in this tourney. You are going to need a budget of over 100 billion isk. If you cant afford this, then you will get steamrolled, and tbh you'll just be wasting isk on entry fees. Most of this is going to come in implants that you will have to change out every fight depending on your set-ups. Also you'll have to have anywhere from 15-20 set-ups ready to go at any given time depending on the bans. You'll have to figure out how to attack and counter special edition ships.

I personally would have brought a cambion / etana / vangel / malice / adrestia to this tourney. I know others have more and are willing to use them as well. So gl to you all, and prepare for everything.

Have fun guys 07



Oh come now, let's get off bashing the NEO, quit being butthurt because an unforeseen circumstance caused a few issues when the tournament was over. Circumstances which are currently being fixed and will be fixed. The NEO was a great tournament, it was fun, and it brought a lot of great new ideas into the tournament community.

Too expensive? Hardly, you made money off the tournament just by signing up, after the blink donation. Sounds like your team just loves wasting tons of isk, no one to blame but yourselves. Get over it, wait for your prize payout (which CCP said they will pay out), and be happy you had the chance to participate.
Ophelia Aivoras
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#146 - 2013-05-29 09:12:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Ophelia Aivoras
Cas Mania wrote:

Oh come now, let's get off bashing the NEO, quit being butthurt because an unforeseen circumstance caused a few issues when the tournament was over.


What "unforeseen circumstance" cause us waiting for 6 months for our T-shirts promised by CCP from the very beginning?

it's like you buy your fanfest HD stream pack and wait for the T-shirt going with it for 6 months, but no - you got it right away
You can't go away from E-sports activities in EVE being on the lowest of the lowest priorities for CCP.
Even ATs are held here not for its own sake but to make some action during "dead" summer season
Cas Mania
We - are peaceful people
#147 - 2013-05-29 13:19:21 UTC
Ophelia Aivoras wrote:
Cas Mania wrote:

Oh come now, let's get off bashing the NEO, quit being butthurt because an unforeseen circumstance caused a few issues when the tournament was over.


What "unforeseen circumstance" cause us waiting for 6 months for our T-shirts promised by CCP from the very beginning?

it's like you buy your fanfest HD stream pack and wait for the T-shirt going with it for 6 months, but no - you got it right away
You can't go away from E-sports activities in EVE being on the lowest of the lowest priorities for CCP.
Even ATs are held here not for its own sake but to make some action during "dead" summer season


So you want to attack any attempt to get things going. CCP will get behind these, when the eve player base does, but the eve player base won't support these tournaments till CCP fully commits.

The players are going to have to be a deciding factor on this issue, and attempts like the NEO need to be supported as well. Am I saying forget the mistakes? Of course not, and CCP needs to fix this sooner than later, but we need to show CCP that even when things go horribly wrong we believe in the idea and we want more commitment.

As I have said before there a small number of truly devoted devs that want to see tournaments succeed. However, CCP as a whole does not fully support tournaments, the dedicated devs need our help to make the magic come alive.