These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Test Server Feedback

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Odyssey Feedback Request] Team Super Friends - Probe Scanning and You

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#421 - 2013-05-09 22:18:16 UTC
i do not know if this has been said already but i will still say it just to make sure it gets out:

'exploration' implies investing time and effort to discover the unknown.

the new system is exactly not that.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Jenn Rose
Doomheim
#422 - 2013-05-09 22:18:30 UTC
CCP really doesn't care about the Exploration profession. I am beginning to realize this after 8 years of play.

They continue to promote its value but continue to nerf it with each patch. I am not impressed with what I see on SISI. Exploration in EVE could be so awesome but CCP could give a rats ass about it. They always tout how awesome of a profession it is but it is anything but. With each so called "expansion" exploration only becomes more nerfed.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#423 - 2013-05-09 22:18:41 UTC
Two step wrote:
Unforgiven Storm wrote:
After I tested this and read this thread I only have one question in my mind:

Did anyone in this team bother to talk with the CSM at all before you implement this?

Two Step for sure knows and uses probs everyday and could have told you how bad this new system/changes were, even before you wasted time implementing them.

4 weeks to go, 2/3? before a code freeze?

If this hits singularity like it is, its going to be another s**t storm similar the inventory window one.

/facepalm



I'll answer that, and as you might have expected, the answer is no, CSM was not consulted about these changes. We found out in an article on themittani.com that we would be able to save probe formations. We found out at Fanfest about the probe results UI. We found out about the 7 probes/removal of DSPs from this thread.
I believe Seleene suggested that you were consulted on everything and that Odyssey will be super awesome solely because of CSM7.

I realize you, like Aleks, have some moral fiber.

I wonder when Seleene and Hans start backing away from this expansion?
Dranchela
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#424 - 2013-05-09 22:22:41 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Two step wrote:
Unforgiven Storm wrote:
After I tested this and read this thread I only have one question in my mind:

Did anyone in this team bother to talk with the CSM at all before you implement this?

Two Step for sure knows and uses probs everyday and could have told you how bad this new system/changes were, even before you wasted time implementing them.

4 weeks to go, 2/3? before a code freeze?

If this hits singularity like it is, its going to be another s**t storm similar the inventory window one.

/facepalm



I'll answer that, and as you might have expected, the answer is no, CSM was not consulted about these changes. We found out in an article on themittani.com that we would be able to save probe formations. We found out at Fanfest about the probe results UI. We found out about the 7 probes/removal of DSPs from this thread.
I believe Seleene suggested that you were consulted on everything and that Odyssey will be super awesome solely because of CSM7.

I realize you, like Aleks, have some moral fiber.

I wonder when Seleene and Hans start backing away from this expansion?


I'm sure we could talk politics in another thread. For now, how about we focus on providing feedback. That is, after all, what this section is for.
Sekraf Reln
Perkone
Caldari State
#425 - 2013-05-09 22:23:31 UTC
also.. from an IC point of view.. our ship jumps into a system, runs a basic scan, and says 'hey, i just found a Serpentis Drug Lab!' my thought is, "and Concord is where?"

i mean, if a cop could just drive down the street and have each drug lab house just light up for him, you'd think he'd call it in and go in after the guys doing illegal things... just sayin.
Oratio Straevaras
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#426 - 2013-05-09 22:33:16 UTC
I have mixed feelings about these changes, since I'm an avid scanner (just ask anyone in my corp). Not sure if I agree with the change to remove DSP but since I never used them I suppose it doesn't really bother me.

But I'm not here to argue about what should or shouldn't be done. So here we go with some feedback on what has been done.

My notes:

  • You can actually start moving your probes while they're scanning (once they're finished moving and started scanning). Not sure if this is intentional or not.
  • 100% scanned signatures are lost when you run your next scan if the scanned signature is not in range of four or more of your probes on your next scan (much like combat scanning for ships already was, but signatures don't move). I truly hope this is a bug and not a intended change.
  • Since my center probe is often around one or more celestials (such as in the center of the system), I would always move all my probes with an outside probe on my diamond shape scan. I can no longer do this. While holding shift reveals all probes, you can only move one at a time that way. I would like it if you can toggle if all probes are visible or not.
  • Please make an option to show the current scan range of probes on each probe icon (I used this a lot more than I realized now). I noticed it still shows probe number and scan range on probes when they're deactivated.
  • If you resize one probe on the menu and they try to resize them all on the interface you get really inconsistent resizes.

James Arget for CSM 8!

http://csm.fcftw.org
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#427 - 2013-05-09 22:41:41 UTC
One thing that is really bothering me is, Exploration is currently considered a mini-profession but with the time, skill and cost investment to do it well, it is more like a true profession.
The suggested changes turn it into a mini-profession and that will hurt those who enjoy it as there main style of play.

Regarding data sited requireing multuple pilots to do efficiently, that is a bunch of BS to do to explorers. There are days where the loot is grand, and other days when there is almost no loot to speak of. Now not only do you have to compete with other explorers, pirates and roaming gangs you must also have in tow a few groupies that the loot you might find must be split with. Not cool.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Oratio Straevaras
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#428 - 2013-05-09 22:49:18 UTC
Oratio Straevaras wrote:

  • Please make an option to show the current scan range of probes on each probe icon (I used this a lot more than I realized now). I noticed it still shows probe number and scan range on probes when they're deactivated.



Another thing about this, when you change the size of your probes, it's not reflected in the scanning window until you start the scan. So without keeping track you have no idea what scan range your probes are at (which is really annoying at smaller scanning ranges).

James Arget for CSM 8!

http://csm.fcftw.org
Jenn Rose
Doomheim
#429 - 2013-05-09 22:50:00 UTC
Exploration in EVE could be so awesome beyond the current system but CCP could care less.
Rented
Hunter Heavy Industries
#430 - 2013-05-09 22:55:00 UTC
CCP Tuxford wrote:
Chris Winter wrote:
Kai Pirinha wrote:
Changing the distance of the probes to one each other requires to press alt+shift.
Alt+shift is already used by windows for changing the keyboard layout (in my case it toggles the layout between the German and the English layout).

So each time I want to rearrange the probes, it will change my keyboard layout. That's rather ****** to be honest.

This.

Put it back on Alt only. I should never need to hold down two different modifier keys to use such a basic piece of functionality.


Interesting. I'm one of those guys that is constantly switching keyboard layouts and I hadn't noticed this but of course I don't type a lot on my local since there is no one to talk to (forever alone Cry'). I guess the best way is to simply have alt pop up the other controls and then function as before.



Relevant.
Dullmeyr Prodomo
Gnartz
#431 - 2013-05-09 23:51:22 UTC
I am totally annoyed by the fact you force me to use 7 probes.

And- the probe formation is dropped in the center of the system no matter where my ship is located, seriously? Or is it just me?
Anita1
Meinungsfreiheit
#432 - 2013-05-09 23:55:52 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:
People complaining specifically about the DSP removal have not understood the new system. DSPs are now in fact useless.

You want to look for new signatures? The new sensor overlay will show them even without any probes launched.

You want to sort sigs? You can do that almost as well with a combat probe, and with probing becoming extremely easy and fast there is really no need anyway. In a system with 40 sigs 20-30 of them will show their group on your first 8 AU scan.



i dont really think you read what ppl said, alot of us do not want to use that annoying scan overlay for 2 reasons, first every 2 seconds a stupid animation and sound appears and second we do not want to move the camera around 360°, its ******* annoying and even worse, if you constantly scan for new sigs you might not see it cause your camera just had the wrong position

this changes, besides the one that i can launch 7 probes at once are stupid
fact is especially for ppl in wh those changes make it harder, we cant copy and paste sigs anymore -> we are wasting time
we cant drop single probes anymore, wtf ccp pls dont tell me what i have to do

you guys are always talking about how awesome the game is and that ppl can do everything in their own way, well with that patch you make us just use 1 way to scan and thats your way most of us, like you can see, dont like at all

also pls give us the chance to turn that scan overlay off completly, we dont need that **** everytime after jumping into a new system, pretty sure its just going to create more lag, plus when we travel thrue empire we arent interested in that ****, i dont care about any sigs when i move stuff around, for ppl who want to use it fine, let them turn it on, but since its annoying pls let us turn it off
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#433 - 2013-05-10 00:15:40 UTC
I think what irritates me most about these changes, in general, is that exploration should be challenging.
Sure, there needs to be content for low skilled exploration pilots but there needs to remain a challenge for experienced players otherwise what's the point?

If I can now ID all sigs at 4au and bookmark them at 2au, why do my probes go all the way down to 0.25au?

Probing works so well currently that it boggles my mind CCP thought it needed any functional changes at all.

The only changes to the current system that would be nice are:

- being able to launch all (as in 8) probes at once
- ignore lists not clearing on session change
- the recall probe button being moved as far away from the analyze button as possible
- being able to save probe formations

ironically, none of which are being done.

None of the other changes are good.
Bars instead of a %? at best useless, at worst extremely annoying if you can't copy paste into 3rd party sites/software.
change the bonuses on astro skills? at best useless, at worst dumbing down probing and pissing off people who spent the time to train them to 5 for a 10% bonus.
adding scanning mods? a horrible dumbing down of probing, makes it FAR too easy.
changing max probes to 7? frankly this is just plain bullsh*t. does absolutely nothing apart from pissing off everyone who uses 8 probes, which generally speaking are the people who probe the most and will be thus using the new system the most.
removal of DSP probes? well, I dont care about this since they are more or less useless and dont do anything you cant do with combats but it's again another pointless change.

all of these functional changes are a MASSIVE case of 'if it aint broken, mess with it till it is'.

CCP, you had 1 WH CSM rep last year, now you have 2, all of which have extensive probing experience.
If youre not going to listen to the vast dislike of the new system being presented by the majority of posters here, at the very least go talk to the CSM as a whole and especially the WH people about these changes.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
MisterAl tt1
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#434 - 2013-05-10 00:38:53 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:


CCP, you had 1 WH CSM rep last year, now you have 2, all of which have extensive probing experience.
If youre not going to listen to the vast dislike of the new system being presented by the majority of posters here, at the very least go talk to the CSM as a whole and especially the WH people about these changes.


Jack, it does look they need CSM only to say "we have such a nice thing!", but not to ask them of anything really important for players they represent.

I think the removal of the 8th probe is a compensation of the scan-strength (etc) given by those modules. Still I don't get why we need those modules in the first place? I don't have any spare mid in my scanning loki fit I've been using for years now.

CCP! If it is not broken - don't touch it! If you think making things easier will bring you more new players - you can be right. But the same will drive vets off your game. Remember we were named "the best game community" ? Now think who was that - new players or old players who dedicated years to this game? If you are no more interested in us - please let us know, so that we don't waste our time playing this game.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#435 - 2013-05-10 00:44:58 UTC
Two step wrote:
Unforgiven Storm wrote:
After I tested this and read this thread I only have one question in my mind:

Did anyone in this team bother to talk with the CSM at all before you implement this?

Two Step for sure knows and uses probs everyday and could have told you how bad this new system/changes were, even before you wasted time implementing them.

4 weeks to go, 2/3? before a code freeze?

If this hits singularity like it is, its going to be another s**t storm similar the inventory window one.

/facepalm



I'll answer that, and as you might have expected, the answer is no, CSM was not consulted about these changes. We found out in an article on themittani.com that we would be able to save probe formations. We found out at Fanfest about the probe results UI. We found out about the 7 probes/removal of DSPs from this thread.

Gotta update my Sisi.

Two-Step, thanks for the info man.

o7

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#436 - 2013-05-10 00:51:46 UTC
MisterAl tt1 wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:


CCP, you had 1 WH CSM rep last year, now you have 2, all of which have extensive probing experience.
If youre not going to listen to the vast dislike of the new system being presented by the majority of posters here, at the very least go talk to the CSM as a whole and especially the WH people about these changes.


Jack, it does look they need CSM only to say "we have such a nice thing!", but not to ask them of anything really important for players they represent.

I think the removal of the 8th probe is a compensation of the scan-strength (etc) given by those modules. Still I don't get why we need those modules in the first place? I don't have any spare mid in my scanning loki fit I've been using for years now.

CCP! If it is not broken - don't touch it! If you think making things easier will bring you more new players - you can be right. But the same will drive vets off your game. Remember we were named "the best game community" ? Now think who was that - new players or old players who dedicated years to this game? If you are no more interested in us - please let us know, so that we don't waste our time playing this game.

Is your loki a dedicated scanner or used for running sites? If the latter I'm not sure you are the intended audience of the mods.
Octoven
Stellar Production
#437 - 2013-05-10 01:00:39 UTC
Reading the last 22 pages....sooo many delicious tears Big smile Im glad CCP is shaking **** up i get tired of doing complex task over and over in the same functionality which is also time consuming. At least the changes are more streamlined now.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#438 - 2013-05-10 01:01:50 UTC
MisterAl tt1 wrote:
I think the removal of the 8th probe is a compensation of the scan-strength (etc) given by those modules.

I doubt it. An 8th probe make virtually zero difference on scan result strength in the current system.
They way I see it is whichever CCP dev was responsible for it was used to using 7 probes and knew a lot of people use 7 probes so went something like 'well, as astro no longer affects the number of probes i can launch, guess i'll just make it launch 7 at once since that's the optimal amount of probes to use. should make people happy'.
Roll

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
MisterAl tt1
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#439 - 2013-05-10 01:02:26 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Is your loki a dedicated scanner or used for running sites? If the latter I'm not sure you are the intended audience of the mods.

You can check my KB for losses. Dedicated scanner-hunter able to catch and keep prey until the support arrives, which means dual-point+web and some ASB tanking (armor - really no for the loss of agility, deadly loss).
Even those armor-tanked scanning hunters of wormholes would not have spare slots for those modules.
Though, it can be one of that "T3 should be worse then specialized ships" things CCP likes lately. Well I don't ((
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#440 - 2013-05-10 01:11:14 UTC
MisterAl tt1 wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Is your loki a dedicated scanner or used for running sites? If the latter I'm not sure you are the intended audience of the mods.

You can check my KB for losses. Dedicated scanner-hunter able to catch and keep prey until the support arrives, which means dual-point+web and some ASB tanking (armor - really no for the loss of agility, deadly loss).
Even those armor-tanked scanning hunters of wormholes would not have spare slots for those modules.
Though, it can be one of that "T3 should be worse then specialized ships" things CCP likes lately. Well I don't ((

Ok, you say dedicated but describe a dual function ship. So when given the choice between faster scanning and being able to hold targets I'd imagine the choice would be holding targets. That being the case the mods, as I suspected, are not targeted at you. As to your feelings about T3's. Should you decide a true single function T3 is something you want for scanning there is nothing preventing you from fitting the mods to regain your superiority.