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[Odyssey Feedback Request] Team Super Friends - Probe Scanning and You

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Author
Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#381 - 2013-05-09 20:26:00 UTC
Bum Shadow wrote:
Why make the contraction shift+alt now though. why not just... alt.... like it was? why change that?


You can contract probes by resizing them. Just click-resize a single probe-sphere. It's what most people did, I assume. Resize radius, recenter probes. That is now a single move. Very useful.

Innabiggahurry
Doomheim
#382 - 2013-05-09 20:28:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Innabiggahurry
Olari Vanderfall wrote:
Innabiggahurry wrote:
The sheer number of people in this thread who haven't bothered to read, think, and then post is staggering.

Astrometrics: Added +5% scan strength, -5% max scan deviation and -0.5 sec scan time per level

Reduced the per level modifier for Astrometrics Rangefinding, Astrometrics Acquisition and Astrometrics pinpointing by half.

It should be obvious how those two things work together. It should also be obvious why you would still want to train Astrometrics V even though DSPs are being removed.


It's not obvious. 5% on scan strength is the only real extremely minor benefit. Scan deviation and time are pretty irrelevant. Astro 5 was for 8 probes and DSP.

What's half of 10? 5

The things Astrometrics will cover in Odyssey are the exact same things the other skills cover. The total bonus at Astro 5 is 25% to all of the other skills and if you have the others maxed, you'll be receiving a total 50% bonus, exactly like you did before. If I've got my math right, it is actually much better for low skilled probers under the new system. It's likely the new modules will have some or all of these as prereqs, which will further increase the bonuses beyond what is possible today without implants and/or Sisters equipment. Assuming they keep Sisters stuff and implants, the bonuses will be massive.

Think first, post second. And to think you did it for a post that already said that. Well, I guess that isn't surprising, since you don't seem to be doing ANY reading.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#383 - 2013-05-09 20:33:40 UTC
Bum Shadow wrote:
you gain 1% per scan until about 1AU. then you jump right to 60% then you pin it 100% next scan. With a removal of DSPs. I'd like you to smooth that curve out meaning we can hit that first 25% much easier at greater sizes and therefor much more easily determin what we want and what we dont.


Scanning for sites can be enjoyable. But scanning 40 sites you dont want. to find 1 you do is not fun, its extremely frustrating. DSPs allowed exploration to be a lot more enjoyable as you spend more time playing content and less time getting angry at "another unknown sig" so please, if you're going to eliminate this functionality all together, at least consider the function of the old DSPs and attempt to meet at some middle ground.



Is this a "whaaaa, you removed my exploit" post?

I'm pretty sure CCP never intended that the DSP's signal strength be a short-cut to knowing exactly what a sig is without actually scanning it down.
Haulie Berry
#384 - 2013-05-09 20:34:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Haulie Berry
Resilan Bearcat wrote:

Giant flourescent roadsigns (needs repeating, it breaks immersion) doesn't feel like space



Strongly disagree with the "breaks immersion" bit. It's not a roadsign in space - it's a marker that is being displayed on a HUD by a ship system.

They definitely need some tweaking, and I, too, miss the "list", but I don't see anything "immersion breaking" about a ship system overlaying visual indicators on its display.


Quote:
What's half of 10? 5

The things Astrometrics will cover in Odyssey are the exact same things the other skills cover. The total bonus at Astro 5 is 25% to all of the other skills and if you have the others maxed, you'll be receiving a total 50% bonus, exactly like you did before.


It's not quite exactly the same, but near enough. Signal strength gets a slight buff (1.25 * 1.25) and deviation/time take a slight nerf (.75*.75).
Olari Vanderfall
Perkone
Caldari State
#385 - 2013-05-09 20:36:45 UTC
Innabiggahurry wrote:

Think first, post second. And to think you did it for a post that already said that. Well, I guess that isn't surprising, since you don't seem to be doing ANY reading.


You're missing my point. I could give a crap about a worthless 5% change. I didn't train Astrometrics 5 for the bonuses. I trained it for the extra probe and ability to use DSP.

I'm not looking for SP either.
Jack Ogeko
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#386 - 2013-05-09 20:36:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Ogeko
scaning time progresion bar should be back becouse, is nice to see when somthing hapening during boring scaning, you have place for this between probe luch formation butons and map buton in system scaner window

now to change scan probe range you need to grab and drag blue spahre (not like this method i more prefer this secend) or righ click at selected probes and you get first menu with 4 options; recover probe, destroy probe, deactivate probe, scan range. when you go scan range option you get all ranges option to chose, my offer is to delate secend menu, delete in first menu scan range option, and put in first menu all ranges form secend menu so you have all in first menu

secend issue is selecting probes in on board scaner window, now to selecet one probe you need to one left click at it, to select all you need click one from top or form boton and with shift key left click to top or botom probe, my request here is to make that to select all probes by only two left clicks at any proble; you click two times left button at any probe and you get all probes selected,

and one more thing, now when you press analyze when you scaning all selected probes in system scaner window going to be deselect so, now if i wish to change the range i need to again selec them all, after every scan, they should be selected still after scan.

add addtional window with confirmation for destroying probes when you wish to destroy your probes
pierre arthos
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#387 - 2013-05-09 20:39:53 UTC
The new scanning interface brings nothing to the game that wasn't there before. It does however screw up one of the few parts of the game that didn't need fixing. Well done Dev Team!

Goodbye 3rd party scanning tools for WH residents, goodbye scanning out systems and travelling without melting your brain. Happy happy joy joy.

Goodbye armour scanning T3's (fare ye well oh loyal Proteus, consigned to history now). There is so much bad I don't know where to look.
Shellac Brookdale
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
#388 - 2013-05-09 20:42:46 UTC
Being able to copy signature IDs along with the probe results to clipboard is really important for existing tools allowing to collaboratively share information on probing results. The improved interface is nice but please bring back ctrl+a ctrl+c
Indy McSmarty
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#389 - 2013-05-09 20:49:51 UTC
I am really , really missing the progress bar of the scan , both system scanner and probe scan.
Its like i click a button and ... wait for things to happen, if and when - one can not tell.

Small visual feedback on the probe one exists - where probes start and end cycling in space.
System scan is just plainly bad. - if there is no sigs in the system - i can find out only if i perform a scan again and get a popup msg "no sigs found" , if i miss it - there is no way to tell if i ever had a scan started.

Is this intentional ? i find it kinda annoying , yes i can count to 10 , but the game feel of you piloting a ship via controls is just not there.
Gordena Gecko
Greed Ltd.
#390 - 2013-05-09 20:52:21 UTC
For all of you crying about dsp removal, have you checked out that the starting % after first system sweep are still in the usual bands? what i have confirmed so far, based on 10 probstrengh dsp:

old new

0,20 10%
0,13 7%
0,10 5%
0,05 3%

I bet the rest is accordingly, just was not able to find such a signature in the 15min i spend discovering that.
If CCP changes that every ano/sig after first sweep is in the list (currently not working) it will be even easier then before, no more dsp needed.
Haulie Berry
#391 - 2013-05-09 20:55:14 UTC
Gordena Gecko wrote:
For all of you crying about dsp removal, have you checked out that the starting % after first system sweep are still in the usual bands? what i have confirmed so far, based on 10 probstrengh dsp:

old new

0,20 10%
0,13 7%
0,10 5%
0,05 3%

I bet the rest is accordingly, just was not able to find such a signature in the 15min i spend discovering that.
If CCP changes that every ano/sig after first sweep is in the list (currently not working) it will be even easier then before, no more dsp needed.


This has been my experience so far, as well, but I've only scanned down a handful of signatures.

That said, the ability to swiftandbitter sigs is not the only complaint regarding DSPs. There are some other (valid) ones.
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
broski legion
#392 - 2013-05-09 20:56:39 UTC
CCP Paradox wrote:

Probes now instantly recall on system jump or station dock


Please, while I understand why this feature is being implemented, make this a tick option, I currently make use of the fact that probes remain in space quite often.

When I am probing missioners, I often leave them out while I check other systems so I don't have to relaunch them and move them off d-scan. I just reconnect when i get back into system. The same thing applies for quick checks into other wormholes.

I urge you to make this an option, not a mandatory change.
Olari Vanderfall
Perkone
Caldari State
#393 - 2013-05-09 20:58:29 UTC
Gordena Gecko wrote:
For all of you crying about dsp removal, have you checked out that the starting % after first system sweep are still in the usual bands? what i have confirmed so far, based on 10 probstrengh dsp:

old new

0,20 10%
0,13 7%
0,10 5%
0,05 3%

I bet the rest is accordingly, just was not able to find such a signature in the 15min i spend discovering that.
If CCP changes that every ano/sig after first sweep is in the list (currently not working) it will be even easier then before, no more dsp needed.


The DSP is needed if you scan 4/4 with different probe types. I think the 1 DSP drop is gamey. If you scan enough you don't need a chart to know sigs.
Aivlis Eldelbar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#394 - 2013-05-09 21:02:18 UTC
Most of what I wanted to say on this has already been said by older and more experienced probers, but I'll repeat the main points just in case.

-8th probe. Please, it is the basis of many probing patterns that whoever devised these changes seems to be unaware of. You are removing a mechanic that is used by players a lot; why?

-DSPs. If you (CCP) think people use these to actually scan down sites and they can now be removed, you don't know anything about probing. They are useful in manners that the devs never envisioned and removing them will destroy some very nice mechanics that people came up with: overwatch, single probe checking, signature classification and many other things will become much harder now. Again, you are removing a useful item; why?


Also, it seems that in the name of making exploration more accessible you are indeed dumbing it down. Want to make it better and more fun for all involved? Hare is a list of changes that would be loved by most pilots, because they ADD to the game, instead of removing things we all use and even like:

-D-Scan: update the UI, it is stuck in the Pre-Cambrian era now. If the overview works in AUs, then why does the dscan work in kms? Why do I have to enter a number instead of having a slider between min and max range? This thing is an obvious target for a rework that will be loved by all.

-Probing interface: while the work done on it is nice, and it looks prettier, what it should be is more usable, not fancier. Copy-pastable list of results, 100% results staying between scanning sessions and/or jumps out of system and the like would make probing easier without turning it into "press A, press B, win!"

-Randomness: interference, both natural and player generated, has been suggested. Dare I suggest a system upgrade that makes all sigs harder to lock down? Or phenomena that would make signatures more difficult to find? I heard something about making illumination in a system dependant on distance to the star; how about making ships closer to the star harder to probe, because of all the electromagnetic radiation in their area?

-Counter-scanning: a ship communicating with probes should be vulnerable, because it's not isolated from the outside. When you cloak you lose your drones but not your probes, which is a bit weird. A mechanic that would make a probing ship scannable (even if it would have a VERY low sig strength, say 0.01 base) would be lovely, and would add interaction to the game.

-2nd probe launcher: just because I'm greedy and want to have a launcher filled with DSPs and another one with Core. I don't like realoading, as you can see.


In the end it boils down to adding features, not removing them in the name of simplicity. Sure, improve the UI, redo the mini-profession sites, give us an option to launch probes in formation. All that is nice, but removing things that are used just because the entry-level prober can't use them is a bad idea. Astrometrics V is a skill that puts serious scanners apart from casual ones without harming anyone; you don't need it to probe, but if you probe a lot, then it's worth the time. You are turning it into a pretty meaningless goal with these changes.
Maggeridon Thoraz
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#395 - 2013-05-09 21:02:38 UTC
I really consider moving out of wh after this patch comes live to tq after living there nearly 3 years. If scanning for chains becomes such a hassle. maybe we wh dwellers should start shooting the statue in Jita ?
Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#396 - 2013-05-09 21:04:55 UTC
Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:
many other things will become much harder now. Again, you are removing a useful item; why?


Also, it seems that in the name of making exploration more accessible you are indeed dumbing it down.


I laughed out loud when I read those two sentences.
Ischie
Kenshin.
Initiative Mercenaries
#397 - 2013-05-09 21:05:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Ischie
Hope the scanning bugs and features will be complete when odessey goes online. Looking forward to the next iteration of scanning on sisi before odessey launches.
Fearless Leader2
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#398 - 2013-05-09 21:08:05 UTC
spinning the view around, trying to pick out a anom near the sun among several other anom and planets etc in the glare,

how about that nice easy list to pick from
Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#399 - 2013-05-09 21:09:09 UTC
Ischie wrote:
Annoyances and problem feedback from sisi's current scanning iteration:

1. I can no longer launch the 8th probe on sisi. Please fix. It just wont deploy the 8th probe.


Reading is hard.

Quote from the OP of this post:

Quote:

Seven probes launched at once
Probe launchers can now only launch a maximum of seven probes. These probes are now launched all together. One click, launches all.


Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#400 - 2013-05-09 21:12:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Rebecha Pucontis
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Is this a "whaaaa, you removed my exploit" post?

I'm pretty sure CCP never intended that the DSP's signal strength be a short-cut to knowing exactly what a sig is without actually scanning it down.

By the way, scan strength is still visible by looking at the sigs in space. So it may well still be possible to get a good indication of a sig still by looking at the initial strength.

I really hope CCP keep this possible as it allows players to build up knowledge and recognise patterns making them a better scanner. It is also part of emergent gameplay which I though CCP tried to encourage.

I'm doing some testing now to see if there is any noticable patterns between the sig strength and the type of site.