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CCP TBH this is the fix... just do this and tweek a bit on sisi and presto two races are fixed... we dont need to spend months on working on minor fixes we should pump out a real fix and then balance it...

Well, where to start?

T2 ammo does need to reworked. Barrage and Scorch offer too much of a performance gain over T1 ammo. It's a tenet of Eve that new players should be useful; you should not be required to train a T2 weapon before being able to contribute. But the step up from T1 to Scorch and Barrage is simply too large. Simialrly, don't introduce a T2 ammo for one weapon system that intrudes directly into the role of another weapon. Example - Hail turns ACs into blasters, Scorch turns Pulse into Beam, well, Beam with MF anyway.

Don't balance T2 ammos just by looking at their stats - you don't fly ammo, you fly ships with guns that fire ammo. If AC boats are underpowered at blaster range and you think a good solution is to increase their damage at blaster range, then consider a T2 ammo that turns ACs into blasters. Of course, it's fundamental balance that ACs need to be bad at blasters' range, because otherwise there's no damn point in blasters... oh.

Eagle is terrible. Much slower than the other two sniper HACs, much less damage than the Zealot and much less alpha than the Muninn, with no EHP advantage. There is no reason to fly it even after your proposed changes. To compensate for its very low speed and lack of alpha it needs much more rail DPS and ease of fitting - or give it mobility equal to that supposed Amarr brick, the Zealot.

Deimos is terrible. Insufficient speed to get into blaster optimal (unlike the Vaga), insufficient combination of range and tracking to hit frigates (unlike the Vaga), very poor survivability thanks to having to go into web range (unlike the Vaga). There is no reason to fly it even after your proposed changes (unlike the Vaga). There is no way of balancing the Deimos with the Vagabond without addressing the fundamental absurdity of having the shortest-range guns on slow ships.

Astarte is terrible. See Deimos comparison with Sleipnir, and the general obsolescence of field CS in favour of T3s as link platforms and tier 2 BCs as general combatants.

Rokh is terrible. It is designed for a niche of very long range sniping that does not exist, thanks to on-grid warping and instant probing. Even if this niche did exist, the Tachyon Apocalypse can do the Rokh's long-range job just as well while also having the option of more DPS at close range. At closer ranges, it is thoroughly outclassed by Scorch Apocs and artillery. There is no reason to fly it even after your proposed changes. If you want the Rokh to be useful, you need to eliminate instant on-grid probing and warping and then evict the Apocalypse from the Rokh's niche.

Ferox is terrible. It's supposed to be a cheap rail sniper, but the artillery Hurricane is far superior at this. I know there's a tier issue here too, but the fact remains that the supposed sniper BC is completely outclassed by another with no range bonuses. Crazy.

Megathron isn't terrible as such, it's just that there's no reason to fly it when you need more range in gang/fleet but don't want to give up the ability to apply great DPS at blaster range (lasers) and more mobility and survivability solo (Tempest, or something that isn't a slowarse BS).

The hybrid frigates are basically fine. Don't change them! Your proposed changes run the risk of making game balance and diversity worse, by tilting frigates towards hybrids while not giving anyone a reason to fly a heavier hybrid subcapital.

T1 cruisers that aren't the Blackbird are terrible, because they've been completely obsoleted by tier 2 battlecruisers possessing much more, better-tracking DPS, more EHP and having the slots to be fit to be faster and more agile. "Better than cruisers at being cruisers" is the phrase, and it's killed them.

Ironically, you can argue that blasters work better on Caldari hulls and rails work better on Gallente hulls. Range bonuses and shield tanks help offset blasters' drawbacks of poor range and slowing rigs and armour; the non-existence of long-range sniping forces railboats to operate at closer range where the Gallente damage bonus is more useful than the Caldari optimal bonus.

Not that it really matters, you'd be insane to use either when you could be using projectiles, with a side helping of lasers.

tallest, thanks for reading. please take your time on these changes. dont rush to roll out something incomplete just to please the players temporarily.

remember, blaster are COMPLETELY robbed of their role by PULSES and AC'S currently. given what youve done so far, blasters will remain unused, i promise you. the rail buff is better, but you have to have another look at hybrid ammo to give people more viable options (ideally different damage types).

- if you're gonna keep blaster range the same, significantly increase the damage, and speed and/or resilience of ALL blaster boats
- you can fix blaster range by playing around with hybrid ammo, especially Null; in this case, closely keep an eye on the damage and maybe the ships dont need as much tweaking

DO NOT FORGET -

there are some ridiculously OP Minmatar boats that can put out impressive damage with impressive tracking and falloff, while maintaining top speeds and decent tanks. Machariel, I'm looking at you. seriously consider dealing with autocannons as well.

I think Tallest is beginning to realize the laundry list of requisite changes to bring hybrid ships up to par is massive.

I hope he also realizes that the simple alternative is to take a look at projectiles and sorch first, necessitating fewer and less extensive buffs to hyrbids. At present, I don't see how a rokh, eagle, diemost, etc. is going to compete. They'll use a bit less cap, but still die to neuts (popular additions to any minmatar loadout). They'll be slightly more mobile, but still fail to catch speedy minmatar ships. Rails will have slightly more dps, but they'll still be dramatically sub-par to artillery and lasers at realistic engagement ranges. Blasters will still have problems applying their dps in any engagement.

Im trying very hard to deside if your a troll or really this dumb

What about the Eagle? No speed boost to that? With it's name, it should be a fast moving, hard hitting and agile ship. Plus, the Eagle is one ship that desperately needs to dump the Moa hull and redesigned with something more befitting of its name. Hell the Hookbill looks more like a striking Bird than the lame Moa. The Scorpion got a much needed face-lift, the Eagle does too!

+1 for the Hybrid Boosts!

Train Reading Comprehension to 4 and reread my post. The point was that with no falloff penalty Hail hits farther than Null, which is just plain silly.

As for my numbers, they use 4 guns + 1 damage mod + 2 damage rigs on both ships. Both are cold dps.

THIS. CCP, seriously...now is the time. fix them all. seriously.

I've seen so many solution ideas that run all over, that I am beginning to think Gallente should not be changed in any way. Then have the war with the Caldari restart, say the Gallente was all wiped out and bring it down to 3 races with the remnants of the Gallente empire broken among the remaining 3 empires.

I always considered Artillery to be a high ROF but lower on the alpha than a Rail Gun. Rail Guns should be massive kinetic damage from an impressive range. Autocannon should have high ROF and blasters high damage. Neither should out-range the other by any significant amounts. It will fall down to speed vs tracking.

I wish I could give better examples but too many people here have far more knowledge and experience than myself, but I can give this final thought: I am Gallente but have trained to Caldari as it is far more favorable to have a ship that gets decent speed, decent damage, decent range and decent tank, or nice combos of 2 or 3 of those (Drake has no speed but good range, damage and BS level tank). With a Gallente ship it is either tank or damage...forget speed. And even range is pretty weak compared to comparable Caldari and it's range/damage. Why fly Gallente?