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Is the bounty system a bad idea

First post First post
Author
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#161 - 2013-02-15 16:25:19 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Where do people get this idea that a bounty is anything to do with being a criminal? Criminals put out bounties (or contracts) on people in the real world all the time, probably more than LEOs do.

You say "Criminals put out bounties on people" and then you ask "Where do people get this idea that a bounty is anything to do with being a criminal?" ...

Are you joking or do you seriously not see the connection? Shocked


Apologies: I should have been more precise and said "Where do people get this idea that having a bounty is anything to do with being a criminal?"

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Skorpynekomimi
#162 - 2013-02-15 18:01:12 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Where do people get this idea that a bounty is anything to do with being a criminal? Criminals put out bounties (or contracts) on people in the real world all the time, probably more than LEOs do.

You say "Criminals put out bounties on people" and then you ask "Where do people get this idea that a bounty is anything to do with being a criminal?" ...

Are you joking or do you seriously not see the connection? Shocked


Apologies: I should have been more precise and said "Where do people get this idea that having a bounty is anything to do with being a criminal?"


Well, you have to do SOMETHING to deserve it. Sexually harassing my alt is a fine example of that something.

Economic PVP

Mikhael Taron
Four Winds Industry
Roadhouse Regulars
#163 - 2013-04-04 17:17:52 UTC
Bounties will never work in a game where the wearer of the bounty suffers nothing when shot-up for the bounty. Even podded the clone wakes up minus implants (big deal) and continues on the same course.

The current situation has people placing 100k bounties on everyone, rendering the overview useless when bounty-hunting.

In the real life bounty system, when the bounty hunter claims the bounty the target is either in chains or is in a box. Either way he has lost something.

Translating this into Eve consider a system where the wearer of the bounty loses 1SP per 1,000 isk of bounty on his head. That would make the bounty worth something to all concerned; wearer AND hunter.

Regaining SP after being podded for a few M isk bounty would be trivial. Recovering from being podded having 100's M isk bounty is another matter. For those toons with 100's B isk bounties? No change as those toons were never seen anyway.

Constraints.

If left as a free-for-all this system could be used to annihilate a toon by anyone with a fortune in isk to burn. When it comes to relatively new toons it wouldn't require a fortune, so there would need to be limits on when a bounty can be placed.

Options.

Restore the old limitations to placing a bounty. Concord won't allow a bounty on someone with a +ve sec status, as they won't recognise the potential victim as deserving of it. Apart from that: free-for-all.

Bounties can be placed only on someone on whom you have kill rights. There can be no argument you would be justified fully in placing the bounty. However that stops bounties being placed on someone who just raped your corporation, so is a harsh limitation.

Implementation.

In changeover to the new system the current plethora of bounties would need to be considered, with a view to zeroing bounties on toons that meet certain criteria. Probably usng the above criteria would work.

If someone has a bounty placed on him he is able to pay concord an amount of isk to reduce it, on an isk-for-isk basis, all the way to zero.

Practice.

You are protected from mailcious bounty-placing provided you remain within the constraints. If you are podded, with the bounty gone, you are again protected by it (sec status reset to 0 or kill rights reset?) until you make yourself vulnerable to the bounty system. This stops you from becoming helpless in the face of repeat bounty-placing.

If bounties are allowed on anyone with -ve sec status then having that at -10 tends to screw you unless you bring it up to 0.0+. Grinding status up while all the time being vulnerable to bounty-PvP may be too much to ask. Then again: you want to brag low sec status, then pay the price. It's a thought.

Harsh? Maybe, but bounties are still broken so any idea that can change this is worth punting.

You can fool some of the people all of the time. You can fool all of the people some of the time. You can make a fool out of yourself anytime.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#164 - 2013-04-04 17:24:06 UTC
Mikhael Taron wrote:
Bounties will never work in a game where the wearer of the bounty suffers nothing when shot-up for the bounty.
So it works, then, seeing as how the target does suffer any time someone claims a bounty on him?

Quote:
In the real life bounty system, when the bounty hunter claims the bounty the target is either in chains or is in a box. Either way he has lost something.
Same as in EVE, then.
Dave stark
#165 - 2013-04-04 17:26:37 UTC
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
Well, you have to do SOMETHING to deserve it.


wrong.

i placed a bounty on some one today just because i could, they hadn't done anything.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#166 - 2013-04-04 17:31:47 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
Well, you have to do SOMETHING to deserve it.

wrong.

i placed a bounty on some one today just because i could, they hadn't done anything.

He was obviously messing with your mojo, or you would have picked someone else. P
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#167 - 2013-04-04 17:32:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Mikhael Taron wrote:
Bounties will never work in a game where the wearer of the bounty suffers nothing when shot-up for the bounty. Even podded the clone wakes up minus implants (big deal) and continues on the same course.

The current situation has people placing 100k bounties on everyone, rendering the overview useless when bounty-hunting.

In the real life bounty system, when the bounty hunter claims the bounty the target is either in chains or is in a box. Either way he has lost something.

Translating this into Eve consider a system where the wearer of the bounty loses 1SP per 1,000 isk of bounty on his head. That would make the bounty worth something to all concerned; wearer AND hunter.

Regaining SP after being podded for a few M isk bounty would be trivial. Recovering from being podded having 100's M isk bounty is another matter. For those toons with 100's B isk bounties? No change as those toons were never seen anyway.

Constraints.

If left as a free-for-all this system could be used to annihilate a toon by anyone with a fortune in isk to burn. When it comes to relatively new toons it wouldn't require a fortune, so there would need to be limits on when a bounty can be placed.

Options.

Restore the old limitations to placing a bounty. Concord won't allow a bounty on someone with a +ve sec status, as they won't recognise the potential victim as deserving of it. Apart from that: free-for-all.

Bounties can be placed only on someone on whom you have kill rights. There can be no argument you would be justified fully in placing the bounty. However that stops bounties being placed on someone who just raped your corporation, so is a harsh limitation.

Implementation.

In changeover to the new system the current plethora of bounties would need to be considered, with a view to zeroing bounties on toons that meet certain criteria. Probably usng the above criteria would work.

If someone has a bounty placed on him he is able to pay concord an amount of isk to reduce it, on an isk-for-isk basis, all the way to zero.

Practice.

You are protected from mailcious bounty-placing provided you remain within the constraints. If you are podded, with the bounty gone, you are again protected by it (sec status reset to 0 or kill rights reset?) until you make yourself vulnerable to the bounty system. This stops you from becoming helpless in the face of repeat bounty-placing.

If bounties are allowed on anyone with -ve sec status then having that at -10 tends to screw you unless you bring it up to 0.0+. Grinding status up while all the time being vulnerable to bounty-PvP may be too much to ask. Then again: you want to brag low sec status, then pay the price. It's a thought.

Harsh? Maybe, but bounties are still broken so any idea that can change this is worth punting.

Except, of course, that bounties are working just fine as they are (although minor tweaks in payout ratio's might be considered.

The bountied individual loses the value of the ship and modules he is in, over and over again until the bounty is gone... 5X the amount of the bounty. If podded he loses the value of the implants and clone replacement, which can be a considerable amount, again over and over again until the 5X limit is reached. This is hardly trivial.

Best of all, the system is entirely in the hands of the players without the need for convoluted game mechanics to keep the obvious potential for exploiting the situation in check.

By the way, there is no such thing as a unjustified bounty. Any bounty is justified if the player placing it feels motivated to do so. Game mechanics should play as small a role as possible in this regard. If I decided you have annoyed me I am free to put money on your head to annoy you in return. I am completely justified in this, and Concord should play no role in saying that I cannot do so.

This allows the, shall we say, criminal element access to the same abilities as the "good guys"... much as criminals in real life have the ability to place a "hit" on any person they deem worthy of the expense.

In EvE you should never be protected from the consequences of your actions just because you consider yourself a "good guy".

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Mikhael Taron
Four Winds Industry
Roadhouse Regulars
#168 - 2013-04-06 08:49:04 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Mikhael Taron wrote:
Bounties will never work in a game where the wearer of the bounty suffers nothing when shot-up for the bounty.
So it works, then, seeing as how the target does suffer any time someone claims a bounty on him?

Quote:
In the real life bounty system, when the bounty hunter claims the bounty the target is either in chains or is in a box. Either way he has lost something.
Same as in EVE, then.

That isn't suffering, as it's no deterrent. Not the same, regardless of your 12-year-old one-liners.

You can fool some of the people all of the time. You can fool all of the people some of the time. You can make a fool out of yourself anytime.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#169 - 2013-04-06 09:38:29 UTC
Mikhael Taron wrote:
Bounties will never work in a game where the wearer of the bounty suffers nothing when shot-up for the bounty. Even podded the clone wakes up minus implants (big deal) and continues on the same course.

The current situation has people placing 100k bounties on everyone, rendering the overview useless when bounty-hunting.

In the real life bounty system, when the bounty hunter claims the bounty the target is either in chains or is in a box. Either way he has lost something.

Translating this into Eve consider a system where the wearer of the bounty loses 1SP per 1,000 isk of bounty on his head. That would make the bounty worth something to all concerned; wearer AND hunter.

Regaining SP after being podded for a few M isk bounty would be trivial. Recovering from being podded having 100's M isk bounty is another matter. For those toons with 100's B isk bounties? No change as those toons were never seen anyway.

Constraints.

If left as a free-for-all this system could be used to annihilate a toon by anyone with a fortune in isk to burn. When it comes to relatively new toons it wouldn't require a fortune, so there would need to be limits on when a bounty can be placed.

Options.

Restore the old limitations to placing a bounty. Concord won't allow a bounty on someone with a +ve sec status, as they won't recognise the potential victim as deserving of it. Apart from that: free-for-all.

Bounties can be placed only on someone on whom you have kill rights. There can be no argument you would be justified fully in placing the bounty. However that stops bounties being placed on someone who just raped your corporation, so is a harsh limitation.

Implementation.

In changeover to the new system the current plethora of bounties would need to be considered, with a view to zeroing bounties on toons that meet certain criteria. Probably usng the above criteria would work.

If someone has a bounty placed on him he is able to pay concord an amount of isk to reduce it, on an isk-for-isk basis, all the way to zero.

Practice.

You are protected from mailcious bounty-placing provided you remain within the constraints. If you are podded, with the bounty gone, you are again protected by it (sec status reset to 0 or kill rights reset?) until you make yourself vulnerable to the bounty system. This stops you from becoming helpless in the face of repeat bounty-placing.

If bounties are allowed on anyone with -ve sec status then having that at -10 tends to screw you unless you bring it up to 0.0+. Grinding status up while all the time being vulnerable to bounty-PvP may be too much to ask. Then again: you want to brag low sec status, then pay the price. It's a thought.

Harsh? Maybe, but bounties are still broken so any idea that can change this is worth punting.



Since implants are no big deal, could I trouble you to contract me a few dozen +5 sets? I forgot to pick some up when I went to the store and now I'm all out.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Dave stark
#170 - 2013-04-06 09:41:49 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
Well, you have to do SOMETHING to deserve it.

wrong.

i placed a bounty on some one today just because i could, they hadn't done anything.

He was obviously messing with your mojo, or you would have picked someone else. P

nope, he just made a thread on the forums. it wasn't even particularly bad, i just did it for the lulz really.
Mikhael Taron
Four Winds Industry
Roadhouse Regulars
#171 - 2013-04-08 17:44:50 UTC
Malcanis wrote:

Since implants are no big deal, could I trouble you to contract me a few dozen +5 sets? I forgot to pick some up when I went to the store and now I'm all out.

Smartarse one-liners do not a point make. Also, never wear anything you can't afford to lose. Even noobs know that one.

You can fool some of the people all of the time. You can fool all of the people some of the time. You can make a fool out of yourself anytime.

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#172 - 2013-04-08 18:09:12 UTC
I may have already posted this, but the only advantage to the new Bounty Hunting system is receiving the notifications that someone you Bountied has died....over and over and over again.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#173 - 2013-04-08 18:16:21 UTC
Mikhael Taron wrote:
That isn't suffering, as it's no deterrent.
Losing your ship is nothing? Interesting. I suppose we could just do away with CONCORD then and make the whole game a free-fire zone since no-one really suffers from losing their ships.

Quote:
Not the same
How is losing something not the same thing as losing something?

Quote:
Smartarse one-liners do not a point make.
Sure they do. Especially when they highlight a rather suspicious and unfounded claim that rather goes against the general view of things.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#174 - 2013-04-08 18:28:53 UTC
Sorry, but bounties as implemented remain substantively vaporware. Beyond a few edge-cases of extremely high-bountied players being pursued, bounties in general do NOT drive bounty-hunter careers & gameplay.

I remain convinced that if bounty hunting is to ever jump-bridge from vaporware to career-driver & substantive gameplay you MUST have...
- long duration skills relating to bounty hunting that people must train
- unlocks associated with those skills, namely the ability for a 'bounty hunter' to make a bountied person (with negative sec status) go suspect or limited engagement to him in HISEC


Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#175 - 2013-04-08 20:51:20 UTC
Mikhael Taron wrote:
Malcanis wrote:

Since implants are no big deal, could I trouble you to contract me a few dozen +5 sets? I forgot to pick some up when I went to the store and now I'm all out.

Smartarse one-liners do not a point make. Also, never wear anything you can't afford to lose. Even noobs know that one.


You tried to say that gettin podded is "no big deal". If I got podded right now it would mean I had to replace ~600-700M worth of implants.

If losing ships and pods is so trivial, then I'd say that the punishment fits the cirme.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#176 - 2013-04-08 21:55:11 UTC
Mikhael Taron wrote:
Bounties will never work in a game where the wearer of the bounty suffers nothing when shot-up for the bounty. Even podded the clone wakes up minus implants (big deal) and continues on the same course.

The current situation has people placing 100k bounties on everyone, rendering the overview useless when bounty-hunting.

In the real life bounty system, when the bounty hunter claims the bounty the target is either in chains or is in a box. Either way he has lost something.

Translating this into Eve consider a system where the wearer of the bounty loses 1SP per 1,000 isk of bounty on his head. That would make the bounty worth something to all concerned; wearer AND hunter.

Regaining SP after being podded for a few M isk bounty would be trivial. Recovering from being podded having 100's M isk bounty is another matter. For those toons with 100's B isk bounties? No change as those toons were never seen anyway.

Constraints.

If left as a free-for-all this system could be used to annihilate a toon by anyone with a fortune in isk to burn. When it comes to relatively new toons it wouldn't require a fortune, so there would need to be limits on when a bounty can be placed.

Options.

Restore the old limitations to placing a bounty. Concord won't allow a bounty on someone with a +ve sec status, as they won't recognise the potential victim as deserving of it. Apart from that: free-for-all.

Bounties can be placed only on someone on whom you have kill rights. There can be no argument you would be justified fully in placing the bounty. However that stops bounties being placed on someone who just raped your corporation, so is a harsh limitation.

Implementation.

In changeover to the new system the current plethora of bounties would need to be considered, with a view to zeroing bounties on toons that meet certain criteria. Probably usng the above criteria would work.

If someone has a bounty placed on him he is able to pay concord an amount of isk to reduce it, on an isk-for-isk basis, all the way to zero.

Practice.

You are protected from mailcious bounty-placing provided you remain within the constraints. If you are podded, with the bounty gone, you are again protected by it (sec status reset to 0 or kill rights reset?) until you make yourself vulnerable to the bounty system. This stops you from becoming helpless in the face of repeat bounty-placing.

If bounties are allowed on anyone with -ve sec status then having that at -10 tends to screw you unless you bring it up to 0.0+. Grinding status up while all the time being vulnerable to bounty-PvP may be too much to ask. Then again: you want to brag low sec status, then pay the price. It's a thought.

Harsh? Maybe, but bounties are still broken so any idea that can change this is worth punting.


I agree with your intentions, although I feel that your method is way off with this suggestion as I understand it.

May I suggest my own proposal, where all pod kills result in SP loss currently equivalent to losing a tech 3 cruiser or another similar mechanism. This way bounty hunting could be specifically linked to a pod kill and would be far more effective and produce much more exciting gameplay.

The only change necessary in my opinion would be pods would have to be immune to non targetted warp disruption, but that is pretty easily done.

By the way, this was the old system which CCP originally introduced also until medical clones where made available.
Mikhael Taron
Four Winds Industry
Roadhouse Regulars
#177 - 2013-04-09 07:21:42 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Mikhael Taron wrote:
Malcanis wrote:

Since implants are no big deal, could I trouble you to contract me a few dozen +5 sets? I forgot to pick some up when I went to the store and now I'm all out.

Smartarse one-liners do not a point make. Also, never wear anything you can't afford to lose. Even noobs know that one.


You tried to say that gettin podded is "no big deal". If I got podded right now it would mean I had to replace ~600-700M worth of implants.

If losing ships and pods is so trivial, then I'd say that the punishment fits the cirme.

Again: don't fly what you can't afford to lose. Basic wisdom in Eve.

Losing 100,000 SP. Now THAT'S a big deal.

You can fool some of the people all of the time. You can fool all of the people some of the time. You can make a fool out of yourself anytime.

Mikhael Taron
Four Winds Industry
Roadhouse Regulars
#178 - 2013-04-09 12:37:30 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Mikhael Taron wrote:
That isn't suffering, as it's no deterrent.
Losing your ship is nothing? Interesting. I suppose we could just do away with CONCORD then and make the whole game a free-fire zone since no-one really suffers from losing their ships.

Quote:
Not the same
How is losing something not the same thing as losing something?

Quote:
Smartarse one-liners do not a point make.
Sure they do. Especially when they highlight a rather suspicious and unfounded claim that rather goes against the general view of things.


Loss of ship in no way deters people in this game, else there would be no one playing. Bounties don't give other players kill rights, therefore they change nothing in gameplay. I'm surprised you don't know this.

Your trolling skills need improving.

You can fool some of the people all of the time. You can fool all of the people some of the time. You can make a fool out of yourself anytime.

Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#179 - 2013-04-09 13:07:52 UTC
Mikhael Taron wrote:
Malcanis wrote:

Since implants are no big deal, could I trouble you to contract me a few dozen +5 sets? I forgot to pick some up when I went to the store and now I'm all out.

Smartarse one-liners do not a point make. Also, never wear anything you can't afford to lose. Even noobs know that one.


Dude, that wasn't just a one liner, those were clearly two lines, two sentences even ... o_O


Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#180 - 2013-04-09 13:17:26 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
unlocks associated with those skills, namely the ability for a 'bounty hunter' to make a bountied person (with negative sec status) go suspect or limited engagement to him in HISEC


No. if the sec status is negative enough You can attak him/her/it anyway.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.