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Is the bounty system a bad idea

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Mag's
Azn Empire
#141 - 2013-02-14 21:43:48 UTC
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
Placing a bounty on someone who deserves it is meaningless because you're just feeding their ego and placing a bounty can be done so lightly that it's become greatly abused.
Greatly abused? In what way?



People spam bounties on hundreds of people just for laughs. This is especially common in NPC corps.
You have figures to show me, just how abused it is?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#142 - 2013-02-14 21:47:06 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
People spam bounties on hundreds of people just for laughs. This is especially common in NPC corps.
You have figures to show me, just how abused it is?
I'd be more interested in hearing how that qualifies as abuse…?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#143 - 2013-02-14 21:50:51 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
People spam bounties on hundreds of people just for laughs. This is especially common in NPC corps.
You have figures to show me, just how abused it is?
I'd be more interested in hearing how that qualifies as abuse…?
I was going to ask, but think I know their reason. So thought I'd focus on the figures first.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
Quantum Cafe
#144 - 2013-02-14 21:51:02 UTC  |  Edited by: BoBoZoBo
It certainly works better than the old bounty system.

Now... whether or not it really motivates someone to hunt down the dog you want to put to sleep is another story. Chances are, they are more likely to ge the bounty as a result of a kill already in progress than something they chased you for.

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#145 - 2013-02-14 22:06:04 UTC
Deleted a vulgar trolling post. Please stay respectful, constructive, and on-topic, guys.

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#146 - 2013-02-14 22:08:05 UTC
BoBoZoBo wrote:
It certainly works better than the old bounty system.

Now... whether or not it really motivates someone to hunt down the dog you want you want to put to sleep is another story. Chances are, they are more likely to ge the bounty as a result of a kill already in progress than something they chased you for.

Oh, I think many people keep an eye open for bountys as people pass by even if not many go out of their way to hunt someone specific down.

Still, even if they only realize the bounty was in place after a kill they will certainly be pleased and keep an eye out for the person from that point on.

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Lei Gao
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#147 - 2013-02-14 22:08:15 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Why do I need to rely upon CCP or Evelopedia, to tell me when I or anyone else for that matter, consider someone a criminal? The fact is I don't. If I decide they are in my eyes and I want them wanted, I shall place a bounty accordingly. Or simply shoot them myself. It's not your place to tell me otherwise and this is why you are misunderstanding the bounty system. You are quite obviously still of the mind, that only those with negative sec status can be criminals. How wrong you are.

I'm not wrong because they are not necessarily criminals. You can't shoot someone with a bounty with CONCORD nearby if CONCORD doesn't consider them criminals. Bounty =/= Criminal. Do you understand the semantic difference between a bounty and a hit?

Quote:
The bounty system is a player led standings mechanic. When a player places a bounty, they consider that person to be of a lower standing and therefore wanted. It's their personal standing towards that player.

Your point? Because that person still does not automatically become a criminal.

Quote:
This is another reason why I think the bounty system is great. It opens up the possibility of player retribution. Which is why it's no coincidence, that name was chosen.

Which, again, I have no problem with. But it's still not a bounty, it's a hit.

Quote:
Daft to you maybe, but not to someone else. That's the whole point and one that seems to elude you.

What seems to be eluding you is the difference between, "I don't like you" and "You're a criminal."

Quote:
I can see you think many bounties are obnoxious, others don't. I have a feeling you'll never see the other peoples views in this regard.

CCP does care, but not for those who think sandbox means the game should only be played their way. ;)

Probably not, given that I had a 100k bounty my first day in EVE, and not because I asked a question, but because I answered one.

Well, you want the sandbox your way and your way just happens to be the way it's currently played, so how are you any different? All I'm saying is that in a game that does have legalities (loose as they are, I mean really, how can CONCORD possibly know if I loot someone else's container?) that a "bounty" system of placing a price on a character for any reason doesn't make sense.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#148 - 2013-02-14 22:39:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Lei Gao wrote:
I'm not wrong because they are not necessarily criminals. You can't shoot someone with a bounty with CONCORD nearby if CONCORD doesn't consider them criminals. Bounty =/= Criminal. Do you understand the semantic difference between a bounty and a hit?
You're limiting it to your definition.

Say for example someone steals from a corp. Concord will not get involved, but the corp members will consider him a criminal. They may then bounty him or hunt him themselves.

Lei Gao wrote:
Your point? Because that person still does not automatically become a criminal.
I didn't say they did. I'm merely pointing out that their standing to the other player was lowered, when the bounty was place and some may consider them criminals.

Lei Gao wrote:
Which, again, I have no problem with. But it's still not a bounty, it's a hit.
The bounty facilitates the hit. Because they may consider them criminals.

Lei Gao wrote:
What seems to be eluding you is the difference between, "I don't like you" and "You're a criminal."
No that's you trying to place your limitations, on what other may want to think.

Lei Gao wrote:
Probably not, given that I had a 100k bounty my first day in EVE, and not because I asked a question, but because I answered one.

Well, you want the sandbox your way and your way just happens to be the way it's currently played, so how are you any different? All I'm saying is that in a game that does have legalities (loose as they are, I mean really, how can CONCORD possibly know if I loot someone else's container?) that a "bounty" system of placing a price on a character for any reason doesn't make sense.
It may not make sense to you, but it seems perfectly fine to me and others.

I'm also not sure you understand what a sandbox means, in relation to Eve.

Edit: Last section.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Skorpynekomimi
#149 - 2013-02-14 22:41:35 UTC
I'm just waiting for the bounty button to make it onto the forums already.

Economic PVP
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#150 - 2013-02-14 22:42:44 UTC
Deleted a link to a locked thread, and posts quoting it..

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.
Sarok Zateki
Doomheim
#151 - 2013-02-15 01:29:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarok Zateki
how about we keep it as it is but let the player put a bounty on the target clone (pod).

-the bounty could have a fee depnding on the target SP, and a minimum fee to avoid griefing new players.

-the fee is a collateral you have to pay to keep the bounty there, until someone claims it.

-The collateral will be payed weekly with a 10% tax

To collect you could get a bountyhunter license from concord

-the cost of the license depends on the target

-its for 3 days and has collateral, it can be extended for another 3 days paying the collateral again and a tax.

*this last one could be like a hit contract and allow you to hit someone in highsec.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#152 - 2013-02-15 08:47:35 UTC
Where do people get this idea that a bounty is anything to do with being a criminal? Criminals put out bounties (or contracts) on people in the real world all the time, probably more than LEOs do.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Whitehound
#153 - 2013-02-15 14:06:30 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Where do people get this idea that a bounty is anything to do with being a criminal? Criminals put out bounties (or contracts) on people in the real world all the time, probably more than LEOs do.

You say "Criminals put out bounties on people" and then you ask "Where do people get this idea that a bounty is anything to do with being a criminal?" ...

Are you joking or do you seriously not see the connection? Shocked

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#154 - 2013-02-15 14:37:27 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Debora Tsung wrote:
Since the bounty payout is only 20% of the forcefully decomissioned ship, it does make sense. You (the despicable person that voluntarily stays in a corporation that most assuredly encourages antisocial behaviour) loose more than You earn when You kill Your corp mates.

EDIT: that is to say, the corp as a whole looses more than it earns. You however, despicable and antisocial as You are earn ISK in the process. I say kill them all, get rich and the leave the corp.

If I took your point of view, then it must be allowed to self-destruct and claim 20% of one's own bounty... which is not allowed.

If I want corp members to kill each other over a bounty can I place individual bounties on the members. Here it makes sense, because these are individually placed bounties.

I want corporation bounties to be different from individual player-bound bounties so that corporation members cannot get any ISKs from it. Some corporations then hold little PvP matches, where they destroy their own assets purposely, but to train their pilots. I do not want a corporation bounty to serve here as a payment for such events.

Or imagine a high corporation bounty when a new player starts awoxing it. It would play right into the awoxer's hands.


No, You cannot and certainly not by my point of view claim bounties placed on yourself. And even IF you could it'd be of no use to you since you loose more than You'd gain by that. It works as it should be, in a strictly technically sense a bounty is 100% harmfull to the one who's head is on the wanted poster.

And yes, "awoxing" was just what I was talking about, in that regard I don't see any problem with the current bounty system, if anything I'd even raise the payout to 30 - 40% of the destroyed assets.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#155 - 2013-02-15 14:44:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Whitehound wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Where do people get this idea that a bounty is anything to do with being a criminal? Criminals put out bounties (or contracts) on people in the real world all the time, probably more than LEOs do.

You say "Criminals put out bounties on people" and then you ask "Where do people get this idea that a bounty is anything to do with being a criminal?" ...

Are you joking or do you seriously not see the connection? Shocked
I think he meant that certain people assume the bounty system, is only for criminals. (low sec status) As in people with high sec status shouldn't have them. This doesn't mean they are not involved or get bounties. Or that sec status is any indicator, of who is or isn't a criminal to another player.

I could of course, be wrong. Lol

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Whitehound
#156 - 2013-02-15 14:46:46 UTC
Debora Tsung wrote:
No, You cannot and certainly not by my point of view claim bounties placed on yourself.

Right, but I can use an alt.

Now explain why a corporation can claim their own bounty. And do not say because of awoxing. If I want to awox myself then I should have the same right as anybody else no matter if I use an alt or through self-destruct.

I call it a paradox, but I am curious how you will explain it.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#157 - 2013-02-15 15:04:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Debora Tsung
Whitehound wrote:
Debora Tsung wrote:
No, You cannot and certainly not by my point of view claim bounties placed on yourself.

Right, but I can use an alt.

Now explain why a corporation can claim their own bounty. And do not say because of awoxing. If I want to awox myself then I should have the same right as anybody else no matter if I use an alt or through self-destruct.

I call it a paradox, but I am curious how you will explain it.


Which is completely and utterly useless as You still loose more than You gain. It'd be cheaper just to transfer the money from one alt to another.

regarding alts: everyone could be everyones alt, being in the same corp is not a valid indicator.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Whitehound
#158 - 2013-02-15 15:22:27 UTC
Debora Tsung wrote:
Which is completely and utterly useless as You still loose more than You gain. It'd be cheaper just to transfer the money from one alt to another.

regarding alts: everyone could be everyones alt, being in the same corp is not a valid indicator.

So why is one not allowed to directly cash in on one's own bounty? Because it is meant to make abuse difficult!

And why is it allowed for corporations to cash in on themselves? Because CCP did not think it through and so it is being abused.

Conclusion: I cannot recommend anyone to use corporation or alliance bounties for this reason - do not use them. Instead, place individual bounties on only a few members and hope it does not encourage abuse as much as corporation/alliance bounties do.

If I wanted to put ISKs into the pockets of those players who I want to place a bounty on then there is already an easier way.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#159 - 2013-02-15 15:55:55 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Debora Tsung wrote:
Which is completely and utterly useless as You still loose more than You gain. It'd be cheaper just to transfer the money from one alt to another.

regarding alts: everyone could be everyones alt, being in the same corp is not a valid indicator.

So why is one not allowed to directly cash in on one's own bounty? Because it is meant to make abuse difficult!

And why is it allowed for corporations to cash in on themselves? Because CCP did not think it through and so it is being abused.

Conclusion: I cannot recommend anyone to use corporation or alliance bounties for this reason - do not use them. Instead, place individual bounties on only a few members and hope it does not encourage abuse as much as corporation/alliance bounties do.

If I wanted to put ISKs into the pockets of those players who I want to place a bounty on then there is already an easier way.


I don't even know why You're saing that, it's nonsense. Being in the same corp doesn't mean You're the same person and I cannot stress this point enough, just because You can kill corp mates and cash in their bounty doesn't mean you can actually abuse that system. The corp as a whole looses more than it gains by this practice.

I really do not get Your point. If You want Your bounties to be cashed in only by certain people then I suggest to not use the bounty system at all and hire some mercs instead.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Whitehound
#160 - 2013-02-15 16:04:38 UTC
Debora Tsung wrote:
I really do not get Your point.

You do not get why people discuss issues on the game?

It is to bring the issues into the light.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.