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POSes: I am a small portion of the community

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Unforgiven Storm
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#1261 - 2013-01-17 17:27:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Unforgiven Storm
My first 2 years in 0.0 I was in a small corp in a small alliance and we lived in a POS.

I know first hand what a pos misery is, I live it. Today im in a bigger corp, a bigger alliance I live out of a station, but all my industrial live is done in poses due to 0.0 station / industry limitations, so in a way I still live this nigthmare!

Research, supers build, moon mining, having something I call my home, having a place where I store ammo, fuel, ships. POS are essencial to anyone that lives in 0.0, People that live in wormholes they have nothing else!

I can live with the fact that a NEW Pos will not happen, I can't however live with the current POS system, at least fix it, take the time you need, fix, fix, fix until you reach something we can call "new".

Pos windows UI sucks
Pos Management sucks
Module anchor/unchor mechaniscs sucks
Modules behavior, functionality sucks
Art sucks
Guns sucks
Pos gunning sucks
Pos moon mining sucks
Pos refining sucks
Pos invention sucks
...
start with something, change everything, step by step, just fix this **** please

just this justifies

A SPRING OF RAGE

maybe if everybody that uses a pos starts unsubing in mass CCP wakes up again!

Unforgiven Storm for CSM 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13. (If I don't get in in the next 5 years I will quit trying) :-)
Borlag Crendraven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1262 - 2013-01-17 17:27:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Borlag Crendraven
mynnna wrote:
To reiterate what I see is the problem here is not that they aren't doing them yet and (evidently) that they aren't working on them at all, but that they seem to see it as a problem that only affects "a small part" of the playerbase and so perhaps do not regard it as a higher priority item.

That is clearly very, very wrong.


Ditto. Faction Warfare affects a much smaller portion of players, it was worthy of advertising as one of the new features for an "expansion". Same thing with war declarations, no one in null or w-space care about them and they are meaningless when it comes to low sec as well, yet they're receiving yet some more attention in the upcoming "expansions". This dueling affects only people in high sec, and some very limited number of people who dwell in low sec and yet somehow lack balls to simply attack the target with or without any possible dueling mechanics. In short, everything they're doing is affecting a smaller portion of the userbase than this is, with the sole exception of ship rebalancing.

Which brings us to the situation we have now. 2 developers who have clearly called us the minority that doesn't matter. What CCP Gargant said, makes sense and is perfectly acceptable, but unless he is the one in charge of this POS revamp instead of Soundwave and Unifex, it's completely meaningless.

That said, I suppose I've finally joined the rank of bittervets and am unsubbing. Will still continue playing via plex, but having a hard time justifying actually paying real money for the development team that has lost the trust in providing the support I consider adequate for the money.
Blake Halsted
Procyon Holdings
#1263 - 2013-01-17 17:28:04 UTC
I have specifically stayed out of Tech2 Invention because of the current state of POS'es.
Batard
Spousal Disapproval Inc
#1264 - 2013-01-17 17:28:12 UTC
pl0x fix
Atla Wolffriend
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1265 - 2013-01-17 17:28:45 UTC
/signed
Brie DeMarllene
Doomheim
#1266 - 2013-01-17 17:30:02 UTC
+1 for OP... POSes need to be fixed. Their current use is the entire reason I DON'T use them and the REASON I moved out of a WH. POSes are literally starving off other gameplay elements. If you can't see that you didn't spend enough "prototyping" time on the new game play features. If you are saying "everyone" won't be affected then iterate on the damn feature until you finally see that EVERYONE will be or could play a part in their construction.
Saangi Xhaxhu
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1267 - 2013-01-17 17:30:27 UTC
Miscommunication or not, making any statement about how few people POS changes would affect is nothing short of marginalizing anyone who has ever dealt with current POS mechanics, anyone who has ever avoided them because of bad stories and anyone who has ever benefited from the work of their corp/alliance logistics bros (ie: a lot of the playerbase).

I fully support this thread and hope that fixing POSes isn't getting bumped down the development queue because of some ill conceived notion that it isn't worth as much time as other things. That is exactly what I DO NOT want to see and what I find unacceptable in the linked quotes in the original post.

A fully fleshed out modular POS system in one go is certainly a pie in the sky idea, but we really need to seem some more convincing facts about what small steps of iteration you plan to do with this system, no matter how difficult it might be. I don't pay for this game for you to rationalize your way out from under the difficult issues, CCP. You make the bed, you lie in it.

The POS mechanics are inherently flawed and this is felt especially strongly by us folks in wormholes who have to live out of them, with no alternative. But anyone who has put up a POS in any system in New Eden knows all the headaches.


The bullet list of what I'd like to see:
>small iterative changes would be most welcome, even if you don't want to base a whole expansion on this (fuel blocks were a great start)

>standings/tabs/roles adjustments being easier to manage really needs to happen sooner rather than later

>the ability for an individual to run a POS effectively while in a corporation without having to have it tied to corp roles/needing to have an alt corp would be great

>any changes towards a more modular POS setup would be nice to see, even if done slowly


Barring damage control from CCP, if anyone organizes a rally/protest regarding this issue, I will be there with all 3 accounts.
Sanfrey Statolomy
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1268 - 2013-01-17 17:31:15 UTC
this thread has blown up, which is awesome!!

oh and i support a POS revamp, we are not a small portion of the community!!
Tover Chris
Suicide Kings
#1269 - 2013-01-17 17:31:29 UTC
mynnna wrote:

In the interest of being fair and balanced I would like to point out to my fellow players that nothing from a game developer should be taken as a promise until there has been a firm commitment to doing so.


Part of the outcome of the Jita riots was to be more upfront and honest with the playerbase.

That means when you say you plan to do something, that it's not just blowing smoke up our asses.
Icarus Narcissus
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1270 - 2013-01-17 17:31:35 UTC
At about 1.5 responses per minute (on average) I think CCP realized we were all in (using) a POS waiting for Two step to light the cyno to bridge.
Nadrok Enderas
Arcanum Industry
#1271 - 2013-01-17 17:34:01 UTC
i use a POS everyday for tech 2 production and fully support a revamp to the current system!!! id like to think i am not a small part of this community.
Alezia Fireblazer
Guiding Light Inc.
#1272 - 2013-01-17 17:34:08 UTC
W-Space for POS-changes!
Voyan Ageri
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1273 - 2013-01-17 17:34:39 UTC
A POS rework helps all of New Eden.
Wivabel
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#1274 - 2013-01-17 17:34:39 UTC
Yes CCP fix posses. This is one of the things I was most excited about. Right now they are terrible and I will not use them.


FIX POSSES and stop being Vaginas with a capitol V.

WivShocked

I am not sure if I am going to log in anymore.......
Cid Tazer
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1275 - 2013-01-17 17:34:42 UTC
Unfortunately I don't think pitchforks and rage will change Unifex's opinion on this. . . . . . . Data on the other hand is a much better tool to get the general point across.

For CCP: What metric did Unifex/Seagull/Ripley/Soundwave use to come to the conclusion that the major POS work would effect a small number of people?

For Players: What kind of metric do you think would show CCP how important changing the state of POSes is?

Lurifax
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1276 - 2013-01-17 17:34:56 UTC
I am baffled that CCP thought that they could skip POS's again.
Ashgar Aurilen
Doomheim
#1277 - 2013-01-17 17:34:56 UTC
I agree, POS revamp would draw more subscribers and benefit all of EvE
Captain Praxis
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1278 - 2013-01-17 17:35:09 UTC
I don't currently POS, but I'd like to!
Wivabel
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#1279 - 2013-01-17 17:35:56 UTC
Its only a small number of people because of how terrible posses are right now.

I am not sure if I am going to log in anymore.......
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1280 - 2013-01-17 17:36:09 UTC
Nair Alderau wrote:
mynnna wrote:
To reiterate what I see is the problem here is not that they aren't doing them yet and (evidently) that they aren't working on them at all, but that they seem to see it as a problem that only affects "a small part" of the playerbase and so perhaps do not regard it as a higher priority item.

That is clearly very, very wrong.


Very, very wrong indeed.

Very, very, VERY wrong indeed.

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system