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POSes: I am a small portion of the community

First post First post
Author
Cid Tazer
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1301 - 2013-01-17 17:41:03 UTC
Ayeson wrote:
Cid Tazer wrote:
Unfortunately I don't think pitchforks and rage will change Unifex's opinion on this. . . . . . . Data on the other hand is a much better tool to get the general point across.

For CCP: What metric did Unifex/Seagull/Ripley/Soundwave use to come to the conclusion that the major POS work would effect a small number of people?

For Players: What kind of metric do you think would show CCP how important changing the state of POSes is?



I HOPE twelve hundred posts in 12 hours will have more weight on his opinion than you think.


That's not really hard data and 1200 posts means nothing if they are from 20 people.

Number of towers per corp would be a metric, number of hours involved in doing simple pos tasks, number of characters that are involved in accessing a pos per day. . . . . . . those are the metrics that I think will mean more than forum posts.
Eliram Kahoudi
Big Fluffy Bunnies
#1302 - 2013-01-17 17:41:13 UTC
i agree please do this
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#1303 - 2013-01-17 17:41:23 UTC
CCP Gargant wrote:
It is good to hear that all of you are so heavily invested in the game, and specifically in things that need an overhaul. You guys still have passion for EVE and that in turn makes me more passionate for what I do here. Furthermore, it would appear that Two step, albeit being present at the CSM summit, seems to have misinterpreted what has been stated so far. That said, I want to bring three quotes from the CSM meeting minutes to your attention:

From page 19:

"Unifex: Once we have a theme, we can begin to thread the issues you've identified as needing to be prioritized into that theme. POS's, for example, desperately need some improvement. How do we fit that work into our theme? Maybe we don't do all of the modular POS work at once, but we start by making some modules, solving the hangar problem, for instance. But that new hangar module would also exist to support other new activities as part of the themed expansion. "

From page 99:

"Seagull: We have 4 things that are interacting [regarding the POSes]: the gameplay and design of the POS system, the role POSes play in achieving things in the game (its features), the technical layer (code) then manages all of this (which currently is old and needs refactoring), and art. Regarding art, there is the question of do you want to redo the art, do you want to show individual modules (as opposed to have things inside, like a station), and then you have technical issues, such as what does the rendering complexity of a scene do to client performance?"

"Seagull: The reason there's a “no” to doing [Modular POSes] right now is that it was affecting all of these areas in a way that was too big to do at once. What you're trying to do is try to find a way to get what you want, but what we need to do is go back and look at how we can separate all these layers, and figure out something reasonable, and then have Art do something that's immersive and amazing."

Nowhere has CCP stated that the Player Owned Structure system will not receive attention. Many of you have already pointed out that it is painful to use at best, a huge pile of unusable dingleberries at worst. Some talk about this being the "old" CCP appearing again but I want to assure all of you that the mistakes that happened in 2011 will not repeat themselves. CCP has only stated that THE OVERHAUL CANNOT HAPPEN ALL AT ONCE

I can't make promises for game designers or the people that make content for EVE Online. Please try to remember that. What I can do is assure you that your voices have been heard, the opinion of the CSM has been heard, and the concerns raised in this thread have been heard.


To all these words I would like to say;

Just suck it up and get it done for once and stop telling us about what will be and might be. Just DO something, and do all of it, you remember like when you did wormholes, you did ALL of it.

We didn't get the code layer for the wormholes, then the wormholes, then the sleepers.


We got one great big bad ass expansion.


How about you stop making excuses and give us another one. Pos's suck, they're all through the game and they're pretty much worse than masturbating with a cheesegrater.

Make 0.0 not suck and fix POS all in one expansion. It literally can't be that hard.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Grimm Index
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1304 - 2013-01-17 17:41:24 UTC
Confirming that I am part of the "small portion" of the community that would benefit from a POS revamp.

Cheers.
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1305 - 2013-01-17 17:42:00 UTC
Cid Tazer wrote:
Unfortunately I don't think pitchforks and rage will change Unifex's opinion on this. . . . . . . Data on the other hand is a much better tool to get the general point across.

For CCP: What metric did Unifex/Seagull/Ripley/Soundwave use to come to the conclusion that the major POS work would effect a small number of people?

For Players: What kind of metric do you think would show CCP how important changing the state of POSes is?



you are the post 1275... of the first day... some dev blogs reached it in a year... some never reached.... this is a good metric...
Crokeur
Le Haut Conseil
#1306 - 2013-01-17 17:42:57 UTC
/signed
Xuallus Arkanum
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1307 - 2013-01-17 17:43:09 UTC
Fix POS's please
Rikanin
The Azerick Corporation
#1308 - 2013-01-17 17:43:36 UTC
Styledatol wrote:
Fix POSes plx.

...and for Bob's sake, let us swap subsystems.
We harvest the materials here, we build them t3s here, but nop - can't assamble/swap subs in wspace.

Edit: so 'only a small portion of the community'?
Look at FW, it was pitiful, the butt of many jokes, hardly anyone bothered with it; yet, CCP won't fix a system that not only affects all empire/null POS owners but also every single soul that lives in wspace - not sure how to understand this. CCP either doesn't realize wspace residents have to live in this broken system, or we're too 'insignificant' for them to care for.


AND THIS...OH MY GOD that is SO IRRITATING!
Blq blq Moreblq
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1309 - 2013-01-17 17:43:36 UTC
For crying out loud how much pointers you need to see how many players live or die couse of posses nowadays.
Industrials , wormhollers, researchers, infrastructure upgrades, null system upgrades , capital ship building arrays, staging points, invading posses, transport middle points , tech and general moon goo, nomad ppl in wormholes ....
The fuel blocks were great feature, please measure the response of the community , did "only few ppl" commented about how happy they are for IT ?
Please , the posses are not something affecting small part of eve. Posses are cornerstone for nullsec, bread and butter in wormholes and a very desired status in high sec.
That kinda pretty much everyone ffs.

Fix it!
mynnna
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1310 - 2013-01-17 17:43:37 UTC
Cid Tazer wrote:
Ayeson wrote:
Cid Tazer wrote:
Unfortunately I don't think pitchforks and rage will change Unifex's opinion on this. . . . . . . Data on the other hand is a much better tool to get the general point across.

For CCP: What metric did Unifex/Seagull/Ripley/Soundwave use to come to the conclusion that the major POS work would effect a small number of people?

For Players: What kind of metric do you think would show CCP how important changing the state of POSes is?



I HOPE twelve hundred posts in 12 hours will have more weight on his opinion than you think.


That's not really hard data and 1200 posts means nothing if they are from 20 people.

Number of towers per corp would be a metric, number of hours involved in doing simple pos tasks, number of characters that are involved in accessing a pos per day. . . . . . . those are the metrics that I think will mean more than forum posts.


Those are poor metrics, because POS are in many ways so broken that all but the most masochistic of enablers and instigators work with them, on behalf of everyone else.

That's something CCP can change.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Byrune
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1311 - 2013-01-17 17:43:48 UTC
Confirming that POS mechanics suck. Go to work CCP.
Daymio
TYTANIA Inc
#1312 - 2013-01-17 17:44:02 UTC
/signed
Ehlendyr
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1313 - 2013-01-17 17:44:20 UTC
Signing to know that i'm part of the 'small' community who uses POS's.
Grythome DrakeAmour
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1314 - 2013-01-17 17:44:28 UTC
I'm new to POS's - my first time with any serious interaction with them has been in the last 4 months. Almost every facet of POS's, from the configuration planning, to the construction/deployment, to the constant interaction with my POS is painful, friction-causing, and reminds me of why I did NOT have a POS previously.

CCP - please fix POS's. Make them cool, make them functional, make them fun.

-Grythome DrakeAmour
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#1315 - 2013-01-17 17:45:09 UTC
I want my own cozy POS!
2Pac Shakurian
Perkone
Caldari State
#1316 - 2013-01-17 17:45:15 UTC
Hereby signed.
Borlag Crendraven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1317 - 2013-01-17 17:45:16 UTC
It's somewhat amusing to think about who the real minority that doesn't matter is; the devs themselves. Numerically they are automatically the minority when compared to the userbase. The reason they don't matter? They are getting paid to do their jobs, complaining that it's too much work in days like this when people are getting laid off left and right is just downright idiotic.

No more excuses, time to deliver.
Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
#1318 - 2013-01-17 17:45:52 UTC
Cid Tazer wrote:
Unfortunately I don't think pitchforks and rage will change Unifex's opinion on this. . . . . . . Data on the other hand is a much better tool to get the general point across.

For CCP: What metric did Unifex/Seagull/Ripley/Soundwave use to come to the conclusion that the major POS work would effect a small number of people?

For Players: What kind of metric do you think would show CCP how important changing the state of POSes is?



I don't think data will change his mind either. Fundamentally I think the amount of work the POS redo needs does not fit in with the new design strategy and CCP can't really come out and say that. POS's are victim to the new greatest middle management idea of the month and CCP damn well can't come out and say "sorry but the POS rework doesn't fit into the new shiny charts we had all those meetings about".
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1319 - 2013-01-17 17:46:02 UTC
Do we have to shoot a statue in Jita, again? Please revamp POS CCP.

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin

Wivabel
KREWE OF PROTEUS
#1320 - 2013-01-17 17:46:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Wivabel
I am proud that we are preemptively burning Jita here on the forums. Poses: the one thing in the game that is used by every type of player in every part of space.

I am not sure if I am going to log in anymore.......