These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

NPC AI Adjustment: Does it solve anything?

Author
Josef Djugashvilis
#121 - 2012-12-24 23:57:07 UTC
I would rage quit, but my sub does not expire until next July. Bah!

As it is, I only log in to change skills, and I have already forgotten to do that a couple of times.

Currently training the Ishtar to add to my collection of useless Drone Boats.

I would say I find it funny, except that I really did enjoy playing Eve, usually for about two - three hours a day, seven days a week.

Mission for isk in Navy Domi, lose isk in pvp.

Now, it is mine for isk to pay for pvp.

Nope, I just will not pay CCP for the 'pleasure' of mining.

On the good side, I have just over six months to find a replacement game to Eve.

This is not a signature.

Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#122 - 2012-12-25 00:04:27 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
I really did enjoy playing Eve, usually for about two - three hours a day, seven days a week.

Mission for isk in Navy Domi, lose isk in pvp.

Now, it is mine for isk to pay for pvp.

Nope, I just will not pay CCP for the 'pleasure' of mining.

What could they do to improve mining?

Bigger hold so you can play less?
More EHP so you can not worry about gankers?
More mass so you can't be bumped?

Mining really needs attention. CCP, please.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe
#123 - 2012-12-25 01:14:22 UTC
It's been a nice 5 years but I'm letting my account run out in january.
I don't mind paying for a subscription but with my limited free time and the new NPC AI drone hate and NPC EWAR madness it is just too much work to make any decent isk. Buying PLEX for isk on top of my subscription is just too much of a good thing.
I'll be back when EVE becomes free to play so I'll spend my the money I used to pay subscription fee with just buying PLEX or if these issues get resolved somehow and I can make a decent buck.
Meanwhile I'll be spending these euros on SWTOR.

<3 you all, even those of you I loathe.

P.S. I'm keeping all my stuff you greedy bastards Twisted

masternerdguy
Doomheim
#124 - 2012-12-25 01:15:41 UTC
Louis deGuerre wrote:
It's been a nice 5 years but I'm letting my account run out in january.
I don't mind paying for a subscription but with my limited free time and the new NPC AI drone hate and NPC EWAR madness it is just too much work to make any decent isk. Buying PLEX for isk on top of my subscription is just too much of a good thing.
I'll be back when EVE becomes free to play so I'll spend my the money I used to pay subscription fee with just buying PLEX or if these issues get resolved somehow and I can make a decent buck.
Meanwhile I'll be spending these euros on SWTOR.

<3 you all, even those of you I loathe.

P.S. I'm keeping all my stuff you greedy bastards Twisted



So grinding level 4s was your only source of good isk? No offense, but how is that even possible? It's insanely easy to make money in this game.

Things are only impossible until they are not.

Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe
#125 - 2012-12-25 01:18:49 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
So grinding level 4s was your only source of good isk? No offense, but how is that even possible? It's insanely easy to make money in this game.


I only have 2 hours a day maximum to make some isk while I do some other work on the side. That makes me just about enough to buy a few ships to lose in the weekends when I can play a bit more.
I don't have time to run all over the galaxy running after incursions. Trade is work. Mining is too boring. So that leaves L4s.

Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#126 - 2012-12-25 04:53:23 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Domi still shines amazingly as a PVP ship.

In fact drones got a buff in lo sec pvp now that sentry guns are no longer shooting at them.


One more bit of evidence as to who was really behind the nerf, aye?

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#127 - 2012-12-25 04:57:47 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
Domi still shines amazingly as a PVP ship.
In fact drones got a buff in lo sec pvp now that sentry guns are no longer shooting at them.

One more bit of evidence as to who was really behind the nerf, aye?

CCP? Yeah, I'm pretty happy they're improving this game, too.

CCP has no sense of humour.

masternerdguy
Doomheim
#128 - 2012-12-25 04:59:17 UTC
Louis deGuerre wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
So grinding level 4s was your only source of good isk? No offense, but how is that even possible? It's insanely easy to make money in this game.


I only have 2 hours a day maximum to make some isk while I do some other work on the side. That makes me just about enough to buy a few ships to lose in the weekends when I can play a bit more.
I don't have time to run all over the galaxy running after incursions. Trade is work. Mining is too boring. So that leaves L4s.



Try day tripping to wormholes mate. You only need an assault frig and you can make great money.

Things are only impossible until they are not.

Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#129 - 2012-12-25 05:07:16 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
Domi still shines amazingly as a PVP ship.

In fact drones got a buff in lo sec pvp now that sentry guns are no longer shooting at them.

One more bit of evidence as to who was really behind the nerf, aye?

Low sec drone-boat using, gate camping pvpers?

That makes no sense.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

CaiIyn Dove
DMoney Corp
#130 - 2012-12-25 09:20:30 UTC
Louis deGuerre wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
So grinding level 4s was your only source of good isk? No offense, but how is that even possible? It's insanely easy to make money in this game.


I only have 2 hours a day maximum to make some isk while I do some other work on the side. That makes me just about enough to buy a few ships to lose in the weekends when I can play a bit more.
I don't have time to run all over the galaxy running after incursions. Trade is work. Mining is too boring. So that leaves L4s.



When people solos in high-sec, they should not be able to get a decent income like 60-80M per hour that too close to farming anomalies in null. So this is a good start, an initial of the overall re-balance between null and high, solo and team work.
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe
#131 - 2012-12-25 10:40:49 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Try day tripping to wormholes mate. You only need an assault frig and you can make great money.


This is true but you really need two accounts for this which I do not want. My luck in w-space has also been horrible P
Norrin Ellis
Venture Racing
#132 - 2012-12-25 11:06:13 UTC
Thank God for EVE Online Hold'Em. No need to grind anymore.
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#133 - 2012-12-25 11:30:01 UTC

Whow, you guys easily give up. Shocked

There are more ways to run level 4 missions then just with drones. And that says me specced for a Nav Domi with nothing but drones.

Oh well, you'll be back.
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#134 - 2012-12-25 16:58:28 UTC
Pak Narhoo wrote:

Whow, you guys easily give up. Shocked

There are more ways to run level 4 missions then just with drones. And that says me specced for a Nav Domi with nothing but drones.

Oh well, you'll be back.


I still feel the system is broken.

Look, CCP constantly harps on about risk vs reward. Well, now when it comes to drones in PvE, there's considerable risk involved. There's also other complications - drone travel time, stationary nature of sentries (can't fly to the next gate AND use sentries, can ya?), all the additional micromanagement of drones. Not to mention you're easier to find when using drones. And drone UI itself is considerably harder to operate, just in terms of how many clicks you need to select and launch proper drones, as opposed to selecting and firing proper guns/missiles, which usually takes 1 keypress.

So, with all that extra work and risk, where's the extra reward? Do drone boats run missions considerably faster than other boats? Not from what I saw. So where's the payoff for the extra risk and hassle of using drones?

This alone, to me, is proof-positive that the system is broken. Though I'm willing to give CCP a few months to announce drone overhaul. If drones themselves and drone mechanics and UI are updated, this might solve many problems. Simplest example - the resist profile of T1 and T2 drones is identical. Why? T2 drones should have a considerably better resist profile. But they don't. Fixing that alone might go a long way towards fixing the "my drones get alphaed" complaint. Then, if they look at drone sig size (100 sig on a drone, when a ship carrying 3 of them has a sig of 125?) and fix that, this would improve drone survival a tad more. Etc., etc. Add them up, and drones might be worth it again.

In the meantime? I'm re-training away from drones. Knowing CCP, it'll take them another 3 years to acknowledge that there is a problem, and another 2 to start deploying fixes.
Jason13 Anzomi
#135 - 2012-12-25 17:37:43 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Knowing CCP, it'll take them another 3 years to acknowledge that there is a problem, and another 2 to start deploying fixes.


Actually I'm feeling a wee bit more pessimistic about it. The track record is consistant in that CCP does not "fix" issues unless they see actual decrease in subscription rates. And given that few people rely heavily on drones, I just don't see it as happening.

Most people will simply give up and switch to another weapon focus. A few people will give up and drop subscriptions. Most will complain until they have a bigger CCP generated headache to focus on, at which time they'll stop complaining about drones.

Will CCP fix the drone problem? Unless a developer is a serious drone user, I just don't see it as happening beyond the bandaids they've already installed. And given the fact that developers can wave a magic wand to instantly learn any weapon skills they want, I don't think we'll see a developer generated fix.

Drones are a weak immitation of a weapon system at this point and will most likely remain that way. Useful to some degree by new players - until they learn to skill a better weapon system. That's the long and the short of it, along with the reason why I will not be renewing my subscription.

I've a couple of weeks left on the main (with the drone skills) and a couple of months left on the alt (Power of Two). If things don't get fixed by the time the alt expires, I'll be into another game and won't bother coming back. Eve got what money I'm willing to give to them, won't be any more coming.
Makre
Heodener
#136 - 2012-12-25 18:25:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Makre
MisterNick wrote:
I've not lost a single drone from my mission Domi to the new AI. Paying attention is a remarkable thing Blink


Or just sents afk killing. Because i play this game and when every size of drone i use has been insta poped in l4s i think there is an issue. If not instaed anythign larger than lights cannot make it back from 35k out. .
The facts are drones are underwhelming, not effective dps, incur massive loss, require more skills and money, So yeah why use them? (Guns baby .. AGE of WINMATAR).

PS. following the previous poster, i also /cancelled (i hardly use drones) But i cannot stand playing a game in the state where i know the devs do not care and will nerf your stuff into the ground. Nothing makes me feel worst then knowing there is wrong and im paying people to continue it.
Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes
#137 - 2012-12-25 21:08:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Eraza
POKER ALICE wrote:
Quote:

*snip*




No, you dont understand. Ive given in. I am a missile pilot now so that I will never be a member of the "persecuted minority" again. As far as the drone weapon system, well...its not really a weapon system anymore. Drones are now an expendable asset deployed for getting the heck out of Dodge. Yeah, Ive read the posts about the brave Domi pilots killing everything by micro managing their drones but thats just silly. Much better off to get in a missile boat, point and click your way to riches.


while drones do have a higher dps potential they are MUCH harder to use then missiles
especially if you have a utility high on your missile boat, add an auto targeter and all you have to do, is press F1 regularly

i must say the "afk mission nerf" really missed the point, i have tried most activities in eve for curiosity's sake,
afk mission running, is not something for drones, even while drones never got aggro.
an overtanked missile boat has always been the way to run afk missions, or low attention missions

drones always needed more attention then missiles, and now drones need yet more attention, not to mention T2 drones are now a joke for PvE use, their loss rate now hugely offsets the profit from the dps increase
missiles, who were ALREADY better for afk missions, are not much different
and in any case mining seems to forever be the favored afk profit method

i kind of hope this "afk mission running nerf" is not true because if it is, then ccp will have really misfired


oh and someone mentioned defender missiles somewhere? ouch on the orphan feature, does anyone use defender missiles... ever?
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#138 - 2012-12-25 21:22:44 UTC
Jason13 Anzomi wrote:
Actually I'm feeling a wee bit more pessimistic about it...Will CCP fix the drone problem? Unless a developer is a serious drone user, I just don't see it as happening beyond the bandaids they've already installed.


Sadly I think you might be correct. I remember how the bookmarks were changed for the better - one of the Devs (I forget who) went to live in a wormhole, and found out first hand just how annoying bookmarks were. And fixed them. If he didn't go to WH space and run into the issue himself, I don't believe a thing would have changed, despite how many people asked for it. I fear it will be the same with drone UI - until one of the developers is forcibly barred from flying anything BUT a drone boat for a month or two, I don't think we'll see any positive change.

Then again, I refuse to be totally pessimistic about it. After all, why would they add 3 new drone boats this patch, and at least one battlecruiser will become a drone boat (Prophecy) next patch, if they're going to leave drones as they are? Also, how will they balance the Domi when drones are basically broken. I dunno, maybe I'm looking at it through pink glasses, but I'm still kinda hopeful that after all these years they'll finally see the light.
POKER ALICE
Moonshine Monks Gentlemans Club
#139 - 2012-12-25 21:32:30 UTC
Quote:

i must say the "afk mission nerf" really missed the point, i have tried most activities in eve for curiosity's sake,
afk mission running, is not something for drones, even while drones never got aggro.
an overtanked missile boat has always been the way to run afk missions, or low attention missions



They boosted the AI to make it less profitable to do lvl 4s. Its really more about slowing the ISK generation and gun mining that was proliferating in those missions. But all this AI will do is cause a shift in how they are approached. In the end things will be right back where they were. So I figure we can look for the AI to get even smarter as a result.

The folks in null dont like it that anyone can do a lvl 4 mission without risk, loot the booty and reprocess it into minerals they hold near and dear to their hearts. I can understand that. The only reason I run those missions is for those minerals. The standings, LP and bounties are just icing on the cake.

What they have done will not fix that problem. It just forces people to go a different way. What I do know is that they will soon realize this for themselves if not already. They will eventually rework all the missions so that none can be done with just one approach. Lvl 4s will become more like lvl 5s in that it will require a much broader skill set and number of people to do them.

That will do what they want, but not eliminate the determined. However it should effectively trample out most individuals using the lvl 4s to undermine what null has to offer.

"If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it. And if you dont deserve what you have and we cant make you lose it, we will ask CCP to nerf it"

Josef Djugashvilis
#140 - 2012-12-25 22:38:23 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
I really did enjoy playing Eve, usually for about two - three hours a day, seven days a week.

Mission for isk in Navy Domi, lose isk in pvp.

Now, it is mine for isk to pay for pvp.

Nope, I just will not pay CCP for the 'pleasure' of mining.

What could they do to improve mining?

Bigger hold so you can play less?
More EHP so you can not worry about gankers?
More mass so you can't be bumped?

Mining really needs attention. CCP, please.


Sorry, I did not express myself clearly.

I will not mine to pay for pvp.

Not now, not ever.

This is not a signature.