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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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why cant we have mining moved to grav sites?

First post
Author
Mirima Thurander
#141 - 2012-12-14 15:24:17 UTC
So what had been decided?

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.

Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#142 - 2012-12-14 15:30:44 UTC
Halin Damal wrote:
And what trade-off are you suggesting in return? Keep in mind that new players also need to get scanning skills before they can start a mining career.


Simple, just like FW sites, the beacons appear on the overview as soon as they are warped to

First come first served?

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION

Mirima Thurander
#143 - 2012-12-15 03:17:11 UTC
I'm wondering if some of these people haven even done the tutorial they keep saying noobs need to train scanning skills, the tutorials HAVE U TRAIN IT ALL READY as one of the agents deals with the scanning.

Most noobs that do the tutorial all ready have basic scanning skills and there still veld in normal belts in 1.0 systems, its just in such small rocks and so spread out anything BUT the new mining frig it wasting its time.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.

Bing Khagah
Doomheim
#144 - 2012-12-15 03:51:31 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

Awesome. Was not aware of this. I always thought having sites respawn at downtime was plain stupid and unfair to people who lived on one half of the hemesphere.


What, like downtime itself? ;)

OP seems like change for changes sake.
Piugattuk
Saiyans United
Death from Above..
#145 - 2012-12-15 05:00:30 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Suvetar
Roll here we go, another stupid thread for hate on miners, why do so many keep trying to make it more and more difficult on an already tedious profession?

You mine and build your own sht then and see how fun mining is?

You spend the hours getting stuff for builds.

You miner haters need to take your meds and stop obsessing about others in game, you are sick minded.

While were at it lets make it so stations and jump gates and planets and the sun need to be scanned down too, why not.
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
#146 - 2012-12-15 06:32:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Piugattuk wrote:
Roll here we go, another stu pid thread for hate on miners, why do so many keep trying to make it more and more difficult on an already tedious profession?

You mine and build your own sht then and see how fun mining is?

You spend the hours getting stuff for builds.

You miner haters need to take your meds and stop obsessing about others in game, you are sick minded.

While were at it lets make it so stations and jump gates and planets and the sun need to be scanned down too, why not.


This started as a civilised discussion about how to improve the career of mining, essentially making it competitive enough to do and a little more interesting. We were also looking for a way to make the exploration career more fortuitous.

And yet, somehow I don't think you've read much of the thread, just the title, before jumping to the conclusion that a select group of people are sick minded. Are you a psychologist? Are you qualified to make that diagnosis? Or are you just trying to ram your own version of what qualifies as "healthy" onto everyone like the half-baked suggestion that someone needs to "get a life" just because they're a gamer?

I suggest it is more sick minded to make uneducated assumptions about the state of mind of someone you know nothing about than it is to discuss possible alterations to game mechanics to improve the game for everybody. After all, wouldn't it be nice if there were less bots drilling the ores that you needed for that ship you want to build? How much LESS tedious would it be if the minerals you needed weren't being carted away by script kiddies with too much isk and multiple accounts?

I would also suggest that if mining feels like such a chore to you, then you probably aren't really enjoying the game. It's really just a second job to you, and we'd be doing you a favour by booting you out of mining altogether.

Is it stupid to talk about changes to the game? I take it you haven't read The Big Lie. You have a choice here: you can read it, and educate yourself, or you can ignore it, and continue to fall for the Big Lie, being nothing more than forum span whose opinions go ignored as the trollbait they seem to be. Or perhaps you actually have something constructive to offer the discussion? Some idea of your own that would achieve the results we are looking for? Oh.... wait.... you didn't read the thread, and you have no idea what results we were looking for, do you.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#147 - 2012-12-15 06:43:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Piugattuk wrote:
While were at it lets make it so stations and jump gates and planets and the sun need to be scanned down too, why not.

You list all those, but forget to list nerfing local?

Or maybe back2wh ?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#148 - 2012-12-15 07:52:19 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:

After all, wouldn't it be nice if there were less bots drilling the ores that you needed for that ship you want to build? How much LESS tedious would it be if the minerals you needed weren't being carted away by script kiddies with too much isk and multiple accounts?


Making mining an exploration based minigame would be lovely but imo it would worsen botting.

First of all if we make discovered belts create a warpable beacon, then we fall just in the same situation we are today. A guy discovers the belt first, all jump and freeload into it.

If they don't create a warpable beacon, then we fall exactly in today's grav sites situation: back during Hulkageddon, out of a whole day in a busy system (Emolgranlan) I have been "invaded" about twice (I have scanned and done grav sites for weeks) despite it's been roamed by Bat Country and James 315. This means bots will be at absolute peace.
IE the ones selectively put out are the potential killers who for some reason seem to can't be arsed scanning.

How do I know bots will adapt? Well I have added as contact the Orcas of some botters and now they are all in 0.0 (which now it's much bots friendly). If they went to the effort of moving their stuff in 0.0, they certainly can put the effort at scanning a belt.
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
#149 - 2012-12-15 09:27:37 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:

After all, wouldn't it be nice if there were less bots drilling the ores that you needed for that ship you want to build? How much LESS tedious would it be if the minerals you needed weren't being carted away by script kiddies with too much isk and multiple accounts?


Making mining an exploration based minigame would be lovely but imo it would worsen botting.

First of all if we make discovered belts create a warpable beacon, then we fall just in the same situation we are today. A guy discovers the belt first, all jump and freeload into it.

If they don't create a warpable beacon, then we fall exactly in today's grav sites situation: back during Hulkageddon, out of a whole day in a busy system (Emolgranlan) I have been "invaded" about twice (I have scanned and done grav sites for weeks) despite it's been roamed by Bat Country and James 315. This means bots will be at absolute peace.
IE the ones selectively put out are the potential killers who for some reason seem to can't be arsed scanning.

How do I know bots will adapt? Well I have added as contact the Orcas of some botters and now they are all in 0.0 (which now it's much bots friendly). If they went to the effort of moving their stuff in 0.0, they certainly can put the effort at scanning a belt.


To the person who likes to make his arguments by questioning the mental health of those with differing opinions...

This is how you make a legitimate counter-argument in a discussion regarding game mechanics.

I can agree with this, you might be entirely right about "freeloaders". It certainly makes sense, when you put it that way, an I can see how this would not improve the situation for miners.

As an explorer, however, I would still like to see a little variety and range in my finds. I don't necessarily need grav sites, though I have discovered how profitable they can be. It just gets a little boring and un-exciting when the only thing you can find in seven systems is more wormholes Ugh

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#150 - 2012-12-15 09:51:26 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:

As an explorer, however, I would still like to see a little variety and range in my finds. I don't necessarily need grav sites, though I have discovered how profitable they can be. It just gets a little boring and un-exciting when the only thing you can find in seven systems is more wormholes Ugh


The grav sites are rare enough, the real worthy ones (the large) are even rarer. Given their relative rarity they could use a little tweak about the roids composition and yeld some more high ends, just to make more miners bother to put :effort: into scanning them.

The WHs can be annoying but easily skipped by using the advices and data explained in this exploration web site.

I'd indeed would love to see "comet mining" or whatever CCP called the new feature, hopefully it won't just be another vaporware.
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
#151 - 2012-12-15 10:23:13 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:

As an explorer, however, I would still like to see a little variety and range in my finds. I don't necessarily need grav sites, though I have discovered how profitable they can be. It just gets a little boring and un-exciting when the only thing you can find in seven systems is more wormholes Ugh


The grav sites are rare enough, the real worthy ones (the large) are even rarer. Given their relative rarity they could use a little tweak about the roids composition and yeld some more high ends, just to make more miners bother to put :effort: into scanning them.

The WHs can be annoying but easily skipped by using the advices and data explained in this exploration web site.

I'd indeed would love to see "comet mining" or whatever CCP called the new feature, hopefully it won't just be another vaporware.


That's a handy linked - I haven't tried DSPs yet. Bookmarked. Cheers.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Sola Mercury
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#152 - 2012-12-15 11:06:49 UTC
I have seen advices in this tread, that suggests the use of filters in the system scanner.
Dont do this yet, b /c these filters do not work the way they should work.

The filter only sorts scan results temporarily out, that have a measured signature strenght sufficient to be identified.
By moving your probes, results sorted out the previous scan, show up again, because now their measured signature strenght is lower.

Summary: Dont use filters until CCP changes their behavior.
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
#153 - 2012-12-15 14:28:21 UTC
Sola Mercury wrote:
I have seen advices in this tread, that suggests the use of filters in the system scanner.
Dont do this yet, b /c these filters do not work the way they should work.

The filter only sorts scan results temporarily out, that have a measured signature strenght sufficient to be identified.
By moving your probes, results sorted out the previous scan, show up again, because now their measured signature strenght is lower.

Summary: Dont use filters until CCP changes their behavior.
That's what the 'ignore result' feature is for Blink
ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#154 - 2012-12-15 15:36:19 UTC
Moved from General Discussion.

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#155 - 2012-12-15 20:42:38 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
IE the ones selectively put out are the potential killers who for some reason seem to can't be arsed scanning.


Once belts are replaced with grav sites, the suicide gankers will have to probe down targets. They will, sadly, have to expend some effort in their quest to rid the world of mining ships.
Crimeo Khamsi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#156 - 2012-12-15 21:03:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Crimeo Khamsi
I'm confused. I read through the first 2 or 3 pages of this thread and did not see anywhere where anybody explained why this would benefit the game? I admit I gave up after that, because it was all meaningless-feeling without that part established first. I apologize if this was made clear later on in discussion.

But yeah. I agree that it wouldn't BREAK the game (since new sites show up when old ones are mined out, the same amount of ore would be brought in, etc.). But "not breaking stuff" does not, alone, make something a good idea.

What goal is this accomplishing that would make eve more fun?
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#157 - 2012-12-15 21:45:58 UTC
Halin Damal wrote:
And what trade-off are you suggesting in return? Keep in mind that new players also need to get scanning skills before they can start a mining career.

they can skill up in mineing first while mineing the belt roids.. and then they are in an exhumor (skiff or mack most probably) for the scanned down sites with bigger and better ores but also lowsec ore too.. the drawback in the lowsec rats popping into the scanned site.

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]

Sola Mercury
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#158 - 2012-12-15 21:55:57 UTC
Pohbis wrote:
Sola Mercury wrote:
I have seen advices in this tread, that suggests the use of filters in the system scanner.
Dont do this yet, b /c these filters do not work the way they should work.

The filter only sorts scan results temporarily out, that have a measured signature strenght sufficient to be identified.
By moving your probes, results sorted out the previous scan, show up again, because now their measured signature strenght is lower.

Summary: Dont use filters until CCP changes their behavior.
That's what the 'ignore result' feature is for Blink


You cant ignore, what is filtered out!
Please dont give advice, when not knowing what you are talking about.

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#159 - 2012-12-15 22:48:11 UTC
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
What goal is this accomplishing that would make eve more fun?


From the technical side, moving mining to grav sites will:

  • Allow load balancing, once the server code can handle moving deadspace to a different processor from the sol simulator
  • Allow better balancing of the mineral economy by fine tuning exactly what gets spawned


From the game play side, moving mining to grav sites will:

  • Allow for random belt construction (rather than simply living in the same belt every day)
  • Allow for random scenery (or any scenery at all, in fact)
  • Reduce the capacity for intruders to hot-drop mining fleets
  • Allow miners to more precisely direct their activity for supply or profit

Crimeo Khamsi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#160 - 2012-12-15 23:06:15 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Allow better balancing of the mineral economy by fine tuning exactly what gets spawned

How is it any easier than with normal asteroid belts, which also respawn constantly, and could just as easily have their contents fine tuned?

Quote:
Allow for random belt construction (rather than simply living in the same belt every day)
Allow for random scenery (or any scenery at all, in fact)

Surely CCP could randomize space scenery in existing belts, every day during downtime?

Quote:
Reduce the capacity for intruders to hot-drop mining fleets

This sounds like a negative to me by itself: Less player interaction in an MMO, plus the reason why you get higher valued ores right now in lowsec and nullsec, for instance, is precisely because of the risk you face in being hot-dropped by hostile intruders...

Removing the ease of being attacked by adding in scanning requirements and prior warning by being able to see probes nearby ahead of time would need to be balanced by a significant drawback for miners. Like lower yields on all lasers and strip miners, for instance.

Quote:
Allow miners to more precisely direct their activity for supply or profit

I don't follow you. Grav sites are generally less predictable in their contents than are asteroid belts, which seems like it would make it harder to plan ahead of time and target one's activities, not easier.




The main effect I would predict would be not really any of the above, but instead just the weirdly imbalancing factor of requiring all miners to have covops ships on hand and extremely advanced scanning skills, etc. in order to make any money. I.e. the effect would be to essentially add a lot more prerequisites to mining (shutting out newbies), and adding a layer of annoyance in having to scan and then go switch ships, and possibly even characters to actually go mine.

Why would any of that be desirable? Why would we want to shut out newbies from mining or add extra skills or ships or juggling of ships needed to be an effective miner?