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EVE Online: Retribution 1.0 Feedback

First post
Author
Mina Bluerain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#581 - 2012-12-05 14:08:45 UTC
Colonial Burton wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Steijn wrote:
Colonial Burton wrote:
The mission 'The Assault' is practically un-doable in its current state. Using a Vargur with all level 5 skills, and deadspace fitted, still couldn't do it. Why? Because of a number of things.

1) Whole 1st room now auto-aggros on warp in, dealing well over 2.5k DPS.
2) Serpentis now damp to hell. Most I've been dampened to by Serpentis was to 17km, couldn't even lock the frigates 2km from me.
3) When I could actually lock the frigates scramming, the drones were practically insta-popped by the NPC's.

It's probably the same with all Serpentis missions. So be careful on them.

CCP, fix this issue, little rediculous don't you think?


just doing Blockade, not got any drone aggro but ive been careful, damping is now even worse than it was tho, much much worse.


Both these missions, IMO, are done best with a good compliment of drones, particularly The Blockade - engage the web tower with drones and just sit back, because everything else spawns way out of range anyway. Watch them closely, recall them when they start taking too much fire, unleash a second group (if you're packing one), or unleash the same one when the agros on you again. Rinse and repeat. Fit sensor boosters and signal amps, and guns that can track (I don't know why people insist on fighting frigs with medium or heavy guns).

The better AI and dampener buff means you have to rethink your tactics.


Marauders 5
Long Range Targetting 5
All AC spec 5

Put it this way, I do this mission heaps. I shoot the group furthest to the right hand side, it aggro's 2 pockets. The group I shot at, and the group directly to the left, leaving another 2 groups further to the left un-aggro'd, including the 4 heavy dampening cruisers. Yet I didn't shoot any and they all aggro'd.

As for the idiots going on about drones, what part of 'instapopped drones' do you not understand? Been playing this game for 5 years now, never seen a mission this screwed up.



5 years... 5 years... 5 years... 5 years... 5 years... 5 years... 5 years... 5 years... 5 years... 5 years... 5 years... 5 years... 5 years...


Your post about the mission made me interested enough in the new mechanics and just went ahead and did it...

let me remind you: I've first logged in slightly less than 2 years ago (look me up on evewho!)... I was away from the game for 6 months (I screwed up my laptop... my fault... don't drink milk while gatecamping in nullsec XD) and yes, I suck at PVP. no need to remind me about that!

so... with 20 mill SP mostly in hybrid guns and armor tank ships plus mining and a T3 ship, with less than a year and half experience I was able to do this mission... with a Dominix and a bunch of drones FFS, only had 1 gun coz I was too damn lazy to refit the ship... it's been in HS for 3 months now since I moved my ass to Deklein... and sure the mission gave me some adrenaline rush at some points, and lost (!!) ONE (!!) drone but I am not complaining... yet you do and you supposedly played for 5 years... Missions are not like "shoot them... they won't notice anyway" anymore.... you do have to use your brain and be alert.

it's not that hard, or is it??
Deimos Ovaert
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#582 - 2012-12-05 14:11:52 UTC
General feedback, per the thread OP request.

From the perspective of a small gang PvP'er nullsec PvP'er Retribution is an outstanding release, well done! Some random observations:


  • T1 logi -- Where have you been all my life? The ability to field a logi that is useful and isn't the most expensive ship in your fleet really adds to our style of small gang pvp.
  • Cruisers -- Nicely done, cruisers aren't cannon fodder when the BC's and BS's show up...partly due to the T1 logi.
  • New destroyers -- We'll be working on fits for these for weeks, blowing them up and seeing what does and doesn't work.
  • Sounds -- Some could use adjustment, but overall the addition of more audio cues is welcome. The ability to "hear" the fight means less time having the scan the screen for vital info.
  • Targeting UI changes -- Pretty good, but I think there is some love to be added in there somewhere...but not sure exactly where. You still have to look several places to see who's got the ewar on you and who's hitting you.
  • Auto centering -- A few tweaks/bugfixes around when it activates, but great option.
  • Scrolling combat messages -- Very cool, I can actually see what's happening without opening the log.
  • The jukebox -- RIP, I'll miss you.
  • EWAR -- Not a bad stopgap while something more fundamental about EWAR is contemplated.


A few of the more annoying items:


  • Gate sounds -- Gahh, take a small gang through a gate and you'll hear the issue.
  • Extraneous noises -- I think there may be to many beeps and buzzes and without any way to change them or turn them off it kind of drowns out the advantages of the audio cues
  • Incoming damage glowy circle thingy -- Good idea, but almost impossible to discern any info from except that this dude is shooting you. Maybe a pie chart or something that is usable at a glance? Top incoming is full red, others are pie chart based on percentage of damage compared to the top damage dealer?


Specific changes:

  • A way to change and enable/disable each audio cue.
  • A way to expand the height of the combat messages window.
  • Someway to customize the reticle, either by scaling or turning on or off elements, colors, etc.
  • Stabber needs some dps love, maybe an extra 2.5% - 4% per level?


Leaving the game for a moment and venturing out to "release" land I would say that the release has gone off very well: You hit your change window, no P0's that I've seen and only a couple of P1's. The majority of the issues seem to fall into P2+.
Lynn Naari
Solo Elite
#583 - 2012-12-05 14:12:29 UTC
My apologies if I double post already mentioned stuff.

On the drones subject I see allot of hate about.
I actually like it I started with some mining in 0.5 and the NPC rats shot one of my drones...
Oh noes they are useless? Not really.

I launched med drones caldari (Vespa) against amarr (blood npc) frigate ships.
This is medium drones (slow bad tracking) against fast mobile ships.
Luanching light drones and even better with the correct damage type would have been better.
Me vote LIKE!

The new damage notifications are great and already prove their worth.
Seeing the same vespa's shoot I immediatly notice how often they miss or shoot for crap.
Luanching the single acolyte I had in my drone bays I noticed its hit ratio is much better and as such the new damage notification improves the knowledge it provides.
Me vote LIKE!

So people please before the flame consider that you might be useing it wrong.
And remember good Ideas that are argumented they will listen to.

Few arguments I have:
- Options could be added such as a scale to increase or decrease size of the locked targets icon.
- Offset between hull / shield / armor could be changed aswell.
(To make all 3 bigger inside of the icon or even change them seperatly Eg a thicker Shield and armor vieuw thinner hull vieuw and less free space in icon but also less vissible ship in icon)
- Option to turn on and off certain sounds not just agressing deagressing. Or even better able to change them.
Eg roids pop makes a noise, cargo full doesn't. Being shot at could be changed to a specific sound at user preference.
Think world of warcraft DBM and such. In eve and lore wise its a computer detecting a situation it was programmed to and then besides giving a visual que there also is a audio notification to the pilot. Local bleep?

People could argue this makes lazy miners be afk allot more easyly. But even now a lock on = audio and the ones that do not watch local will turn of the sound. The ones that do will find it is more fluid. And people AFK from computer or alt tabbed ...
Well be honest if they have to switch back and forth everytime a local regular enters and it beeps they will get fed up soon enough.

Well nuff said for me I like the changes and mention keep up the good work.

Cya later,
Lynn naari
Operation officer
[GRVN]
++Continues testing++
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#584 - 2012-12-05 14:31:16 UTC
Callic Veratar wrote:
The new sounds annoy and confuse me:

- Why do we need a chirp when skill training is completed. Is the Aura voice saying "Skill Training Completed" not enough for some people? How could you miss that?
- The metallic bang when a locked target is destroyed is sorta ok... except that it plays any time a target is lost, including when you salvage wrecks. My Noctis has 4 salvagers and tractors, so it sits there going BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG.
- I don't need a chunk sound when I open a can. If it opened on it's own and needed to notify me, sure. Check the default Windows sound effects here. Simplistic and clean is better with less sound a la Windows 7, not the old Window 95 style of playing a tune on every single action imaginable.
- I certainly don't need a whoosh sound when I loot a can. There's no module on my ship that's pulling all these cans in, it's me interacting with the UI.

I'm honestly considering hacking the client to remove these sound effects, that's how much they annoy me. Notifications are when my attention is needed, not for when I'm actively doing something.


We need an option for "full bells and whistles", "less bells and whistles", "minimal bells and whistles" and "no bells and whistles" in the sound menu.
cheese monkey
HC - Blackhole Sun
Aporkalypse Now
#585 - 2012-12-05 14:33:53 UTC
Podding a suspect. That is silly. Not exactly justice.... Murdering a suspect... No.

I thought CCP were trying to make drones more viable as a weapon, not less?? Gate gunz don't shoot your drones but NPC's do? That is a bit dumb.

I seriously don't see why CCP removed the jukebox, seems like it only really boosted moral on mining ops!

Nice new destroyers and brilliant new ECM compensation skillz, thank you for them.

Few little UI glitches, but grats on the speed of release.

--

http://eveboard.com/ub/627817229-39.png

Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#586 - 2012-12-05 14:33:55 UTC
i have da solution regarding the jukebox. update the browser to enable html 5 stuff, setup a cheap eve themed webpage with links to the songs and everyone can stream it without tabbing out of the game.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Silla Talie-Kuo
Doomheim
#587 - 2012-12-05 14:45:28 UTC
short one:

New target UI is very difficult to read, especially in very stressy situations (some call it PvP ^^)

I will not say, i want the old ui back, i like the round targets; but can you give us a way to modify those little, slim white lines to something, you can "read" fast?

For example, give us a setting to switch to the first announced ui from the dev blog: http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/63449/1/targets3.png (ore something like that)
Or some setting to "merge" those 3 little lines to one thick line, seperated in 3 "parts"
Or some way to change the scaling on single frames, not only the whole UI

only some ideas ^^

Valeria Katrina
Pristine Industrials
#588 - 2012-12-05 14:48:38 UTC
CCP Arrow wrote:
Hauntable wrote:
Silver Coon wrote:
I really don't like that now when I use the scroll wheel in the market for modifying prices, I HAVE to be with the cursor over the price box for it to work. (PC)


Xilael wrote:
Who the f... changed the mousewheel settings so that it scrolls in the current window instead of the highlighted box?

Makes adjusting prices so slow...


"Scroll bars become active once the user hovers the area of their function which applies to both windows and tabs within windows"

This is a not a good change. Requires you to constantly move your mouse to the window/text box you want to scroll or you can end up scrolling a window in the background.


It is a common feature in recent interfaces to only need to intersect the area you want to control with the mouse without the need to click it first. It also allows you to be able to control that area in more ways like moving items and scrolling at the same time as mentioned above. We realize this is a change to how EVE used to be but we are quite sure it is the way we would do it if we were releasing EVE for the first time today and this change is part of updating the EVE UI so that it can keep evolving to meet the needs of the majority of our players.


Would you be willing to compromise and let the mousewheel work for the amount input window while the pointer
was anywhere over the window that the control is in? ( The small "Modify order" window )

VK
Jack' Sparrow
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#589 - 2012-12-05 14:50:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack' Sparrow
Though this would in a way fix the issue to some extend it's still a kind of botch. Basically swapping one method of listening to the streaming music to another.

Would have been nice if they had at least uploaded the music to somewhere so we could download it in 1 click. At least playing them in media player is better than nothing until they (hopefully) reconsider this change.

Jack

Bienator II wrote:
i have da solution regarding the jukebox. update the browser to enable html 5 stuff, setup a cheap eve themed webpage with links to the songs and everyone can stream it without tabbing out of the game.
Kaitlyn Rhees
Tempest Freelancers
#590 - 2012-12-05 14:57:30 UTC
The in-space cargo inventory, if left open, used to switch automatically to the in-station inventory once you docked.
This was convenient, especially to drop mined ore from the ship to the station.

Now if you dock that way, you just get the ship inventory. You have to close that, then the added step of opening the station inventory.

Minor, perhaps, but if you're going to "improve" the inventory system, don't take away a convenient feature.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#591 - 2012-12-05 14:58:23 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:


Yeah because nobody ever places a bounty on the good guys. Han Solo was a terrible person and so is that eleven year old girl Malala that the Taliban bountied - terrible people, both deserve to have bounties on them. Don't they?

You think that because you've done nothing "wrong" according to what's legal in the game that a criminal can't set a bounty or a "price on your head" so to speak just because he can? They bounty system before this was pathetic - as if you shouldn't be allowed to place a bounty on anyone. That's what being a criminal is all about, doing whatever the hell you like. The new bounty system just formalises a criminal's ability to do what they've always been able to do anyway - offer a price for your death. What do you think Hulkageddon was, a tickatape parade?

IMO, the bounty system is now fixed. Nobody should be immune to bounties because a "bounty" is just a price on someone's head, and doesn't need t be for what you might consider legitimate reasons, because I assure you that someone placing a bounty on you is going to have their own reason, whether you understand it or not.

FYi, I have a half a billion on my head atm because some forum warrior didn't like me disagreeing with them. But because bounties don't equal kill rights, it has been interesting seeing two people try to claim it in high sec now and both times get concorded. She wasted her half billion isk and that's not my problem.


There still should have been limits imposed on the # of outstanding bounties you could create along with bounty expirations. Toss in only partial refunds when bounties expire for good measure.

Those simple things would have limited some of the more rampant abuse which we warned CCP of back on day 1 of the dev blog. Namely, that without limits, every pilot in Jita or other popular spot (Help channel, etc) would end up with a bounty on them. As a result the "pilot has bounty" overview setting becomes cluttered with trash because there is no way to set it to discriminate between a pilot that has a "for the lulz" bounty vs someone who has a serious 100+ million ISK bounty.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#592 - 2012-12-05 15:07:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Scrapyard Bob
CCP Explorer wrote:


The notepad is somewhere between the jukebox and the calculator, but I don't have strong opinions on it... Smile

The EVE Calendar clearly already has EVE-specific functionality and is a method for players to organise their work in ways that Outlook and Exchange can't (unless everyone in the corp/alliance had access to the same Exchange server).

The tool you don't mention is the EVE Browser. Should we invest time and people in upgrading that to the latest Chromium version, support HTML5 so you can stream YouTube videos, etc? Why would that be worth our time for you, the players? How would you want to prioritise it (above what and below what)?


Notepad - very useful in-game because you can store item links in there, and other quick reference materials. The UI is a bit dated, but there is a lot of stuff in EVE where it is handy to have a personal quick reference list. Corp and alliance level notes would also be useful.

Calculator - I never use it because I run EVE in windowed mode and use the OS's calculator. But this is still very much "spreadsheets in space" for a lot of things and access to a calculator is a must.

Browser - very much needs to be upgraded as Google now complains (when using Google docs such as spreadsheets) that the in-game version is outdated. One specific use case is things like shared profit mining operations, where you use a Google spreadsheet to monitor participation. This works great using the IGB because every pilot in the operation can open the spreadsheet and monitor whether their participation / name was recorded correctly. Without requiring them to sign up for Mining Buddy or some other 3rd party site (just set the share settings on the spreadsheet so that anyone with the link can view the sheet).

The browser also comes in handy for demonstrating invention / manufacturing sheets, or for displaying class notes so the participants can follow along in-game as the teacher gives their lecture about some facet of EVE.
Slavac Stark
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#593 - 2012-12-05 15:08:47 UTC
The Good:

1. The new UI is quite beautiful.

2. Salvage drones are pretty slick. I wish I could make them auto salvage everything with one click, but perhaps that's wishful thinking.

3. The inventory system seems improved.

The Bad:

1. I'm a fairly new player who trained/focused on Caldari and specifically Heavy Missiles. I've been running Level 3 missions in my HM Drake and noticed this:

- My missile range went from 58 to 43KM. This hurts as the range of the NPC's shooting me doesn't seem to be reduced in kind. This means more DPS stays on me as I can't clear it off the field, thus melting my face a bit.

- My damage has been greatly reduced. Previously I could hit certain targets for 1400 damage per salvo, now my highest roll has been 800. On paper my DPS is 154-172 depending on missile type yet in application it's far less.

- My drones are all but worthless for adding DPS thanks to the random target switching. While this makes sense when thinking about AI, this still really cripples my DPS.

2. Beep blap boop blep sqweeeeeeeeeeeeeee blengaaa. It's too much. I don't want beeps each time I shoot at something darnit. Also the sound a Jetcan makes is just...silly. Sit on Jita undock for a few minutes and you'll grow to hate it.

3. With the aforementioned Drake nerf, it leaves me...lost. HM's are rubbish so I need to train into something else...which in this game takes weeks. For a new player who doesn't have other weapons trained I can either continue to get my face melted running previously simple Level 3 missions or try and find something non pewpew related while I train into something useful. I was really getting into the groove of shooting things and learning tactics but the brakes have been throw on full.

At any rate that's my two cents from a newish PVE drake pilot. CCP is doing good work and trying to make the game better, but perhaps the HM nerf was a bit too strong on this go around.

tom trade valine
Imperium Technologies
#594 - 2012-12-05 15:20:30 UTC
Personally i think the HM nerf was way to much espically since the main group that uses HM's are caldari. But my main problems are these enw noise's that i hear when ships die, get looted or salvages with loot in them and there seems to be no way to remove the noise. Also the little targeting siloute that shows on every gun and ship now as your flying around is unecessary and only cause more distractions rather then do anything usefull. so far the patch is a big flaw to me since everything they did was seemingly half thought again
Nicen Jehr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#595 - 2012-12-05 15:30:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicen Jehr
I love the soundscapes but there are some songs that I just really don't want to hear for the five hundredth time.
Can we please have a button to skip to next track?

(xposting Little Things thread)
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#596 - 2012-12-05 15:38:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
BTW, safety button, make it persistent or remove it. Its current state just adds ANOTHER 3 pointless mouse clicks to achieve what we could do before.

tom trade valine wrote:
Personally i think the HM nerf was way to much espically since the main group that uses HM's are caldari. But my main problems are these enw noise's that i hear when ships die, get looted or salvages with loot in them and there seems to be no way to remove the noise. Also the little targeting siloute that shows on every gun and ship now as your flying around is unecessary and only cause more distractions rather then do anything usefull. so far the patch is a big flaw to me since everything they did was seemingly half thought again


Thats because they have spent all their time on some ****** doomed fps console game flop instead of reinvesting time in eve. Shame, its a big gamble as older players get alienated and new features are so half baked that no new or old player could consider them a reason to play the game.
lovatus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#597 - 2012-12-05 15:40:42 UTC
speaking as a low sp drake pilot, the missile changes and npc upgrades have hit me very hard, since the update ive been unable to complete a lot of level 3 missions that i previously breezed through because i my range has dropped from 60km to 47 km and i now do half the damage i previously did, essentially i now have to train rails effctively wasting 3 months of skill training. I thought you guys were supposed to be making things easier for new players so why are we being punished this way?

other changes:
the bounty system is cool and im guessing the novelty of putting them on random passers by will wear off before long,
the npc changes are a mixed bag as it essentially makes drone warfare unviable and i dont particuarly like the look of npc cruisers magicking themselves out of thin air right next to me (at least have them warp in) npc's also are unaffected by the missile changes which is a little unfair in my book.
the noises are terrible and the explosions are lacklustre,
i like the ui changes and the new targeting thing is nice, if a little big.
Turelus
Utassi Security
#598 - 2012-12-05 15:44:07 UTC
Would it be possible in future to update the Kill Rights section of the character sheet to be more like the Combat Log one?
Condensed option and one tab for people you have rights on and one tab for people who have rights on you?

My list was small but a PITA to manage I hate to think what a pirate players must look like.

Turelus CEO Utassi Security

Ultra DuGarde
EDENCOM Special Circumstances Division
#599 - 2012-12-05 15:47:43 UTC
OK First off I have a question It may be obvious but let's skip to the customary insults and assume my reading comprehension sux

If someone (anyone) puts a bounty on me (even if I have not done anything to them) does that make me a legal target in Hi-sec? (Assume I have no suspect or Criminal flags active)



After the Patch, Graphics are Glitchy (OK My machine is old but Win 8, core 2 Duo, NVidia 7400 never played this badly)
If I am stopped by a planet, it literally "Bobs" up and down like it's on a Yo-Yo. and its Fuzzy and semi transparent.
Planets near a station flicker like crazy.

Annoyances--- SOUND

No Jukebox (yes I know they got rid of it in Devblog blah blah blah- please bring it back Eve has great music but I like my stuff better)

What's with all the hissing noises? The targeting buzz is awful and old warp sound was better. Listen to some more Sci fi movies- Beeps and dings not hiss and crackle.

Targeting Boxes need to have diff sizes I do not play on a 2 24 inch screens.

Good Stuff:
Don't know why people are saying Tengu got Nerfed- Sound to me like Passive HAM PvE fits just got a boost. (Still using Heavy Missiles in Tengu?)

Love the look of the Targeting boxes and the in-space target Highlighting.


What with all the new way people can be suspect I "suspect" there will be a lot more fighting in Hi-sec and Miners with deep pockets will finally be able to get/buy revenge.. the next Hulkageddon should be interesting...

Ultra DuGarde
EDENCOM Special Circumstances Division
#600 - 2012-12-05 15:52:04 UTC
Oh "one more thing" With the Buff to Guided missile precision, does this mean that Target painters now work for HAMS too? (Unintended side effect?)