Crime & Punishment

Yet all the while they do have options to survive this action that is not an exploit. It simply comes down to the one thing I've been saying for months now: They choose not to use the options available to avoid it. They choose to be victims.

I could recount many instances of where a target has survived by out-smarting us.

bumping is a viable tactic both for being a poor-man's tackle and giving miners/freighter pilots/others in general a hard time. it should be left as is, policy wise. there are ways to avoid it (orbiting, moving faster than the bumping ship, moving belts, etc) that people can use that would negate any real harassment from it.

I just wanted to get my say in real fast.
1. Miner bumpers stay in NPC corps, so there is no recourse the miners have, short of hiring someone who doesn't mind using alts to end up with CONCORDed ships at every attack. They are abusing and exploiting the mechanics of the game by hiding behind the skirts of NPC corps, because they cannot be wardec'd.
2. Miner bumpers claim to be going after afk miners and bots, but I see them griefing the same active, at keyboard miners for hours on end, day after day. This is griefing. It is harassment. Period.
3. Game mechanics have been changed many times due to the brilliance of groups such as the Goons. It needs to be changed for the miner bumping exploit as well. These carebear players are, yet again, getting bullied. Only this time they have no built in recourse. One needs to be made for them.

Remember, the more the carebears are hindered, the more your costs go up.

If I could snap my fingers and have something done? It'd be for CCP to engage every single one of you (not per-character, i'm talking about the actual player) and explain that what's transpired is in excess and it needs to be toned down (or better yet cease), and if it doesn't, banned/account cancelled. But that's wishful thinking on my part. So for now I'll tell you what would ease my annoyance.

* Cease the "you must ask NOA for permission to use the restroom" nonsense in your Code. CCP, IMO, should do something about this bare minimum. NO advocates segregation of real life from in-game -- humans using toilets is RL. Humans have health issues is RL. What do you want, players to show you scans of a doctor's prognosis? Want to see my colonoscopy and endscopy results? Didn't think so.
* Cease the "you cannot file a petition against NOA or affiliates" nonsense in your Code. CCP, IMO, should do something about this too, bare minimum. Every player has a right to file petitions -- CCP defines this right, not NO.
* If a player tells you to go away, feel free to try and "coerce" them ("Are you sure you don't want a permit?" -- think Jehova's Witnesses), but if you repeatedly nag them for hours on end, that begins to teeter on harassment. In that case, move on to someone else.
* If folks in Local chat start complaining, i.e. "Haven't you people left yet?!?!", I recommend you leave. You're upsetting the local populous who quite possibly aren't mining -- bad idea.
* Give players reasonable amount of time to respond. If I had to give you a number? 30 minutes. Speaking personally: most of the time I dock up if I know I need to use facilities -- but there are times (I would say 25%) where I don't have time to do that. When severe, it hits you like a tonne of bricks and the last thing on your mind is navigating a UI to dock -- all that's on your mind is getting to a toilet. If someone blows up my ship as a result of that, that's my problem -- but if someone blows up my ship "because I didn't respond in Local fast enough", that's different (to me anyway).
* If you don't get a response, try a 1:1 private chat instead. If they answer, this proves they're not looking at Local. You can take it from there.
* If you do not get a response, it is very possible they do not understand English. My advice is to move on to someone else, unless the NOA is fluent in multiple languages (keep reading).
* If you do get a response but it's non-English, get an NOA who speaks that tongue. Do not rely on Google Translate. Having just your extortion/ISK demand in multiple languages does not help with real-time chat. As someone who IS multi-lingual, I can assure you GT won't help entirely, especially with Russian and Japanese (and there are even examples of this on the minerbumping site). "What on earth does 'bring Tronna sideways ship dance lol' mean!?" = makes me think of GT handling Russian.
* If after all the above you get no response -- move on. This is effectively what some NOA have advised miners do ("don't like us? Move to another system"), so the advice goes both ways. Remember: the more "dedicated" you become towards a single individual/player/character the more likely it is they're going to feel harassed.
* Stop with the "gang" or "mob" mentality when it comes to communication in Local. What you're doing is sending multiple NOA to a single Solar System and "ganging up" socially on, quite literally, everyone who meets your criteria. It may be one player with multiple alts, but when 10+ NOA show up that's at least 3 physical people. This is one of the things that incites massive lash-back in Local (from other players, miners or not, against NOA).

The next one will probably surprise you:

* If you're sick of not getting a response, engage the miner in a fight. Fire on them. Blow the miner up. Suicide gank them for all I care. Please -- do it. This is the mechanic that EVE offers -- if you want to act like pirates that own a Solar System (quoting James more or less: "you need a permit to mine in my system"), then act like it. Don't even bother with repeated bumping for 12-16 hours and this nonsense in Local -- I don't see pirates doing this when trying to extort items or ISK from players, at least not for that duration. What I have experienced (I've been playing EVE off and on since 2005) are pirates who show up, do their thing, and either get what they want, blow you up, or leave. They don't follow you around for days.
* With all the above in mind: no matter what the situation, be reasonable at some point in time and move on to someone else. I know this is probably a bad example (please folks don't let this spiral out of control I'm just giving an example!), but you should have left Capt Lynch alone after 2 weeks. Seriously. That situation I think is the best, and most public, example of that what NO is doing is in fact harassment. NO (in my experience) does not know when to let a dead dog lie. There's a very obvious breaking point for people (not referring to Capt) -- and I think forcing people to reach that point is what NO tries to do. That isn't "griefing": that's harassment.

Perhaps we need a fresh point of view to this whole situation. CCP should consider this:

How to better reward hardworking individuals and organizations who create emergent, player-driven content? Goonfleet and James 315 are prime examples of players making Eve better for the playerbase, not even to mention some of their shenanigans can often be used straight up as marketing material for the game.

As many have testified, all systems this New Order has visited have transformed from silent graveyards to vibrant, living systems with active community.

I say the question is not "do we need to nerf bumping" but rather "how to encourage James 315 and his kin to continue breaking the dull monotony of script-driven playstyle and bringing life to highsec".

Some kind of official "Community Ambassador" tag would be great for these hard-working, selfless persons.

Ask not what CCP can do for you - ask what you can do for EVE

No, your dead wrong. Most bumpers are in player corps. And even if they were in NPC corps, last I read that did not prevent them from being ganked or camped by mercs.



Wrong again. Any miner who does not accept the Code into his heart is a rebel, regardless of current keyboard status. Afk miners and bots are of course the preferred targets. And, no, it isn't harassment. It's emergent gameplay that is 100% counter-able with just a tiny bit of :effort:. Ask Construticon for some tips maybe?



Stop making yourself out to be a victim, it's very unbecoming. Bullying? My god, that's such a BS argument. If you think this is bullying, then clearly you have lived an incredibly sheltered life. It's RP in a damn video game, and it's all well within the limits of gameplay set out by CCP within the EULA.


hth

TRAMMEL RUINED UO!!!!!!!!!




srsly tho...


*edit*
to elaborate for those that don't get the connection...

Ultima Online made a safe 'haven'(they even named a friggin town that later IIRC) so that pve'rs could farm gold without that pesky nuisance, the pk, messing with their wallets. Before the expansion that brought all that bullish to the world UO was a great game with a comparable risk vs. reward ratio to that of Eve(not quite as extreme though). When you were killed all of your hard earned loot would drop, down to the shirt on your back.

In 99(maybe early 2000) the world was split into a consensual pvp only copy of the world(Trammel), along with a copy similar to the game pre-patch(Felucca). Made everything suck. Subs went up for a short time before dropping way down.

Therefore, if Eve were to make some sort of safe haven for miners or nerf anything or tactic that can be used to mess with miners in highsec the long term result would, most likely, not be very good. Eve is one MMO that just keeps growing despite the trend of other mmos in their entirety. I'm pretty sure CCP would never do a thing such as a safe area for miners, as they aren't giant pansies...but there have been a few on this topic that seem to want something like this implemented, and to you I say HTFU.

CCP Falcon can you pass on my thanks to CCP that they've decided to resolve the terror of some barges being bumped in a handful of hisec ice belts near immediately. Right as we approach the third anniversary of the current moon goo system. well done guys. well done

I am a miner and I see nothing wrong with the methods the bumpers use and also do NOT think the bumping mechanics should be changed at all. I do however feel the wardec system needs to be addressed. Now before you think I am going off an a tangent I am not. The biggest recourse CCP has given to miners is to either hire mercs or wardec them. Well if someone were to wardec a member of NO, one of two things will happen. They will either close down their one man corp and immediately reopen it effectively wasting the 50 million ISK and nullifying them as a war target; or they will place you in Dec Shield, get themselves out of the war, and put you in a war with thousands of other players. From my understanding neither of these issues will be fixed on the 4th and there will still be exploits.

Honestly though all that I see happening if the wardec becomes functional is that these bumpers will leave their one man corps and go into NPC corps.

All that said if the groups at hand feel they are being strong armed they can form a coalition and fight back. There are far more non-bumpers than bumpers. Stake claim to what you love and fight for it, if you aren't willing to fight for it then move on.

At the end of the day that sounds a lot like low and null sec. Either way, as of this writing the player base NO has is probably only enough to completely control a few systems. There are dozens of others to choose from outside of their "control". If it become popular enough and more groups emerge to stake claim to hi-sec systems I think that its a pretty clear indication that the player base has voted on the play style desired.