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[Winter] More Combat Frigates!

First post First post
Author
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#441 - 2012-09-28 11:42:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
well the rifter can armour tank maybe if that side was boosted a little maybe like the wolf is swap its slots to 4 lows and perhaps a split weapon system bonus so a missile damage bonus instead of the tracking bonus

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#442 - 2012-09-28 11:50:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Bloodpetal
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Bloodpetal wrote:

Didn't you say you had something special in mind for the Rifters' second bonus?

Any word on that?


I phrased it ambiguously, my bad. I meant that we had something special in mind for the minmatar active tank bonus on frigates. That was the Breacher.



I barely see rifters anymore. With the merlin getting a resist bonus, the punisher getting a resist bonus and the tristan getting a extreme repping bonus... and all of them performing very well now (and the Rifter seemingly left in the dust frankly) Seems like the Breacher and the Shield Boost should be wrapped up with them as Combat frigates while the Rifter should be wrapped in with the Attack frigate roles?

(i'm trying to bring this back around to the breacher and talk about the rifter, and not derail ;p )


Also, as I talk about this, I realize that you may have changed the 4 basic "roles" you had in mind? Since you've doubled up on combat frigates for each race.

Attack, Combat, Bombardment, Support ?

Is the bombardment role replaced conceptually at this point, since many aren't getting missile roles at all?

Where I am.

Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
#443 - 2012-09-28 12:24:12 UTC
Milton Middleson wrote:
Have you considered changing the rifter's second bonus to something else? Right now, every single small autocannon boat has a damage and tracking bonus, which has resulted in the rifter and slasher being kind of samey...

Tell you what, how about you yield the tracking to Amarr and then you slaves can have the weapon cap bonus .. deal? Twisted

Muhahahahahaha.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#444 - 2012-09-28 14:55:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Garviel Tarrant
Bloodpetal wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Bloodpetal wrote:

Didn't you say you had something special in mind for the Rifters' second bonus?

Any word on that?


I phrased it ambiguously, my bad. I meant that we had something special in mind for the minmatar active tank bonus on frigates. That was the Breacher.



I barely see rifters anymore. With the merlin getting a resist bonus, the punisher getting a resist bonus and the Incursus getting a extreme repping bonus... and all of them performing very well now (and the Rifter seemingly left in the dust frankly) Seems like the Breacher and the Shield Boost should be wrapped up with them as Combat frigates while the Rifter should be wrapped in with the Attack frigate roles?

(i'm trying to bring this back around to the breacher and talk about the rifter, and not derail ;p )


Also, as I talk about this, I realize that you may have changed the 4 basic "roles" you had in mind? Since you've doubled up on combat frigates for each race.

Attack, Combat, Bombardment, Support ?

Is the bombardment role replaced conceptually at this point, since many aren't getting missile roles at all?



I dunno, im sort of enjoying the rifter being complete **** ^^

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Dr Sheng-Ji Yang
Doomheim
#445 - 2012-10-01 05:22:55 UTC
I think you are wrong. I still see Rifters and they are still really good ships. But atm everybody is flying kitey attack ships. No wonder. Most people have flown the Rifter for years because it was the one and only non faction T1 frig and I really do not wonder that they want to fly something else now. Rifter is still a very good ship with really good tank and awesome firepower.
Nyack
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#446 - 2012-10-01 07:44:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyack
So any news if they are going to revisit the combat version of inties now that the t1 versions are buffed? Imho the only viable one is the taranis?

scratch that i found an answer..


Quote:
Don't think ceptors will be able to make it into Winter, but we'll get a look at them as soon as we can.
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#447 - 2012-10-01 08:13:35 UTC
Dr Sheng-Ji Yang wrote:
I think you are wrong. I still see Rifters and they are still really good ships. But atm everybody is flying kitey attack ships. No wonder. Most people have flown the Rifter for years because it was the one and only non faction T1 frig and I really do not wonder that they want to fly something else now. Rifter is still a very good ship with really good tank and awesome firepower.


For what purpose would you pick a rifter over another frigate right now?
Dr Sheng-Ji Yang
Doomheim
#448 - 2012-10-01 08:41:24 UTC
Quote:
For what purpose would you pick a rifter over another frigate right now?


Well if you really think it is soooo bad then try the punisher. Rolf. That is total fail. Rifter still has a really good punch and has even tanking abilities that slicers haven´t the cap to kill them.
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#449 - 2012-10-01 08:46:07 UTC
Punisher is fine. It is more than fine, in fact, and there are good reasons to pick a punisher over another t1 frigate for certain circumstances.

Also, if you can't kill a rifter with a slicer, you should probably stop flying frigates.
Dr Sheng-Ji Yang
Doomheim
#450 - 2012-10-01 09:06:06 UTC
Killing a Rifter with rat support in a slicer is always a cap issue. And yes my cap skills are good.
Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#451 - 2012-10-01 13:07:51 UTC
Milton Middleson wrote:
Also, if you can't kill a rifter with a slicer, you should probably stop flying frigates.


This.

I've been trying to find a 'role' for the rifter post patch.....but everytime I find myself back looking at the slasher. The 'roles' in minmatar frig line are blurred atm.

Brawl (Puni, Merlin, Incursus, Rifter) : Traits: Damage bonus + tanking bonus (except rifter)
Attack (Exec, Condor, Atron, Slasher) : Traits: Damage bonus + some other bonus (Lol Exec)
Combat (Tormentor, Kestrel,Tristan, Breacher): Traits: drones/missiles + some other bonus (why does breacher have tanking bonus? wasn't it a trait of brawl frigs)

Make rifter 3 4 3 with rof and tanking bonus (like incursus) (...and say goodbye to firetail)
Make breacher 4 3 3 with rocket rof and missile explosion radius

This might make the 'roles' more clear.....I don't know if we really want these lines so clear cut though.

Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
Ushra'Khan
#452 - 2012-10-01 15:23:17 UTC
Deerin wrote:
Milton Middleson wrote:
Also, if you can't kill a rifter with a slicer, you should probably stop flying frigates.


This.

I've been trying to find a 'role' for the rifter post patch.....but everytime I find myself back looking at the slasher. The 'roles' in minmatar frig line are blurred atm.

Brawl (Puni, Merlin, Incursus, Rifter) : Traits: Damage bonus + tanking bonus (except rifter)
Attack (Exec, Condor, Atron, Slasher) : Traits: Damage bonus + some other bonus (Lol Exec)
Combat (Tormentor, Kestrel,Tristan, Breacher): Traits: drones/missiles + some other bonus (why does breacher have tanking bonus? wasn't it a trait of brawl frigs)

Make rifter 3 4 3 with rof and tanking bonus (like incursus) (...and say goodbye to firetail)
Make breacher 4 3 3 with rocket rof and missile explosion radius

This might make the 'roles' more clear.....I don't know if we really want these lines so clear cut though.



hm, weather rifter or breacher gets a tanking bonus isn't really important, is it?
both are combat frigs, and each race seems to get a tanky one and another one, but the rifter really should be more distinct to slasher. maybe make it an arty platform (as was planned for the burst before it was changed to be a logi frig) ?
Rakkas Kanenald
Tir Capital Management Group
#453 - 2012-10-03 23:52:51 UTC
All these T1 frigate changes have been great, I do agree that the Rifter needs some love, it just is too unfocused now not really doing any job as well as the other options available to you, and not versatile enough to keep up. Are there plans for faction frigate rebalance? As much as I love seeing the t1s become awesome, I get sad everytime I try to compare my firetail, to them
Mirei Jun
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#454 - 2012-10-05 05:23:44 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:



Tristan:
Frigate skill bonuses:
7.5% Bonus to Hybrid Turret tracking speed per level
10% Bonus to Drone tracking speed and hitpoints per level

Slot layout: 3 H (-1), 3 M, 3 L, 2 turrets, 0 launchers (-2)
Fittings: 35 PWG (-3), 130 CPU (+5)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 350(-41) / 450(+20) / 550 (+167)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 350 / 175s (-59.38s)/ 2 (+0.5)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 310 (+4) / 3.44 (-0.21) / 1106000 (+100000) / 3.56s (-0.02)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 (+20) / 40 (+35)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 40km (+12.5) / 600 (+10) / 5
Sensor strength: 9 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 41 (-1)
Cargo capacity: 140




Sure would love to see that tracking bonus added to the Ishkur... Might be nice to just give it 50m^3 base drone bay and replace the expanded bay bonus per level. The HP per level bonus alone is somewhat silly, as it stands now.

Damage wise this ship will actually do about the same as the current Ishkur.


Major Killz
Tr0pa de elite.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#455 - 2012-10-09 19:21:03 UTC
Just here to support the new Kestrel and Breacher.

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ![/u]

Kaikka Carel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#456 - 2012-10-13 12:37:11 UTC
Tristan:
Frigate skill bonuses:
7.5% Bonus to Hybrid Turret tracking speed per level
10% Bonus to Drone tracking speed and hitpoints per level
Slot layout: 3 H (-1), 3 M, 3 L, 2 turrets, 0 launchers (-2)
Fittings: 35 PWG (-3), 130 CPU (+5)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 350(-41) / 450(+20) / 550 (+167)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 350 / 175s (-59.38s)/ 2 (+0.5)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 310 (+4) / 3.44 (-0.21) / 1106000 (+100000) / 3.56s (-0.02)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 (+20) / 40 (+35)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 40km (+12.5) / 600 (+10) / 5
Sensor strength: 9 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 41 (-1)
Cargo capacity: 140


1. Less slots total than other ships of its class. Is going to be very stressing in this type of class.

2. Least amount of fitting resources again. Did you calculate the numbers or just gave gimped stats to gallente by an old habbit?

3. Tracking bonus for 2 turrets... Daresay its a waste just like a rep bonus on Brutix.

4. Slot layout. Given that the drones deal damage overtime I'd like to have some slots to fill the tank in. Unfortunately there are only 3 available both in mid and lows.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#457 - 2012-10-13 12:40:46 UTC
lol at those that think the Punisher / Rifter aren't ****.

Punisher might not be terrible, but has 2 mids so its crap.

Rifter is just bad all around, pretty much any frig rapes it quite easily.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Lavitakus Bromier
WTF Bunnies
Reverberation Project
#458 - 2012-10-13 15:05:13 UTC
Can we see the tormentor rebalanced kinda like the tristin.
With some minor changes.

2turrets 20 drone bandwidth 50 drone bay
and a.bonus to drone speed and damage. But not to health.
Goldensaver
Something Went Wrong
#459 - 2012-10-14 02:55:40 UTC
Kaikka Carel wrote:
Tristan:
Frigate skill bonuses:
7.5% Bonus to Hybrid Turret tracking speed per level
10% Bonus to Drone tracking speed and hitpoints per level
Slot layout: 3 H (-1), 3 M, 3 L, 2 turrets, 0 launchers (-2)
Fittings: 35 PWG (-3), 130 CPU (+5)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 350(-41) / 450(+20) / 550 (+167)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 350 / 175s (-59.38s)/ 2 (+0.5)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 310 (+4) / 3.44 (-0.21) / 1106000 (+100000) / 3.56s (-0.02)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 (+20) / 40 (+35)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 40km (+12.5) / 600 (+10) / 5
Sensor strength: 9 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 41 (-1)
Cargo capacity: 140


1. Less slots total than other ships of its class. Is going to be very stressing in this type of class.

2. Least amount of fitting resources again. Did you calculate the numbers or just gave gimped stats to gallente by an old habbit?

3. Tracking bonus for 2 turrets... Daresay its a waste just like a rep bonus on Brutix.

4. Slot layout. Given that the drones deal damage overtime I'd like to have some slots to fill the tank in. Unfortunately there are only 3 available both in mid and lows.


I can see the reason for you complaints. I don't think the Tristan's going to turn out like they expected it to. But I see your point number 2, and laugh, especially since it follows right on the heels of number 1. 2 is the way it is because of 1. With less slots overall, you don't need as much powergrid or CPU in order to fit the thing fully. Do I agree the slot layout, number of slots, etc works? I don't know. I do know these are supposed to be "long range damage support" ships, so you're not supposed to have lots of tank.
Johnny Bloomington
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#460 - 2012-10-15 19:22:07 UTC
Major Killz wrote:
Just here to support the new Kestrel and Breacher.


Use the manicore body for the Kestrel!

CCP wish list: show damage on ships and open that door!