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Capsuleers and Their "Crews"

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Bluddwolf
Heimatar Military Industries
#161 - 2012-09-29 04:36:36 UTC
Another topic of discussion, related to capsuleers and their crews:

How many of you would not consider crew members from one of the other three races / factions?

As for my character, he would likely not trust anyone but Minmatar to serve on his ship(s). He certainly would not have an Amarr on his ship.

Thoughts......

EVE Online Fan ... Looking for "End Game" since 2006 ... Happily, I still havn't found it

Jax Bederen
Dark Horse RM
#162 - 2012-09-29 14:29:12 UTC
Bluddwolf wrote:
Another topic of discussion, related to capsuleers and their crews:

How many of you would not consider crew members from one of the other three races / factions?

As for my character, he would likely not trust anyone but Minmatar to serve on his ship(s). He certainly would not have an Amarr on his ship.

Thoughts......


I might have an Amarr or two....strapped to the hood of my Mach.
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#163 - 2012-10-01 19:08:20 UTC
I'm apolitical, so anything goes.

"We all sleep under the same stars"

AK

This space for rent.

David Forge
GameOn Inc.
#164 - 2012-10-03 04:31:46 UTC
Capsuleers seem to have, more often than not, transcended both their humanity and any really strong affiliation with their empire. I would suspect only a minority would bother with racism at that point. To the average demigod I suspect that all crew members are equally expendable pieces of equipment.
Bluddwolf
Heimatar Military Industries
#165 - 2012-10-04 02:21:37 UTC
David Forge wrote:
Capsuleers seem to have, more often than not, transcended both their humanity and any really strong affiliation with their empire. I would suspect only a minority would bother with racism at that point. To the average demigod I suspect that all crew members are equally expendable pieces of equipment.


This view ignores that fact that the factions are currently in a state of war, and an expanding one as Dust 514 approaches. EVE is also a very political, and cut throat, environment. It is not about racism, its about trust. Could a Minmatar capsuleer really trust Amarr crew members? Or a Caldari trust a Gallente?

This is not to say that all people are politically motivated, but the faction / empire structure definately makes it difficult for "enemy factions" to cooperate.

EVE Online Fan ... Looking for "End Game" since 2006 ... Happily, I still havn't found it

David Forge
GameOn Inc.
#166 - 2012-10-04 04:50:07 UTC
There are those that retain a political allegiance, notably pilots who participate in faction warfare or capsuleers that maintain a position in one of the empire navies. However, a sizable number (a majority if we go by players as no fictional tally is available) are in it for themselves more or less. Official fiction sources seem to indicate a fairly uninterested and uncaring relationship from pilot to crew. The issue of trust is handled by background checks but with no regard (that I have ever seen hinted at) for race or political affiliation. On that subject, I suspect people that tend to end up crewing capsuleer ships are not themselves altogether concerned with race/politics. If you're taking the high risk job of serving under a demigod with literally no concern for your life and safety and who is willing to lose you, hundreds of your companions, and a massively expensive ship on a suicidal whim then traditional adherence to your nation's system has likely failed you.

So, I accept that in certain instances I could not be further from the truth. However, in a great many, maybe even most, the relationship is, I don't think, not that far off from what I have described.
Michael Kashada
Namaste Foundation Corporation
#167 - 2012-10-05 13:58:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Kashada
I'm still new to the world of Eden and only recently discovered the old opening movie to learn the full backstory. But I like to think of my ships (at least the ones I've flown as a beginner) being highly automated. Computers and controls all being at the captains seat in front. The pod being right close by. But the area being large enough to move about as in a 10x10 room. In my stories on my blog (Eve Random Thoughts) I have wired up my mining rig with a refrigerator and music player and spend all of my time in space alone.

After all we are not only demi-gods but we have absorbed quite a bit of ancient technology into our own giving us great power and control in our ships. No crew needed here. Cool
Temba Ronin
#168 - 2012-10-05 19:13:47 UTC
Michael Kashada wrote:
I'm still new to the world of Eden and only recently discovered the old opening movie to learn the full backstory. But I like to think of my ships (at least the ones I've flown as a beginner) being highly automated. Computers and controls all being at the captains seat in front. The pod being right close by. But the area being large enough to move about as in a 10x10 room. In my stories on my blog (Eve Random Thoughts) I have wired up my mining rig with a refrigerator and music player and spend all of my time in space alone.

After all we are not only demi-gods but we have absorbed quite a bit of ancient technology into our own giving us great power and control in our ships. No crew needed here. Cool

Beer, music, an a fridge is a quaint picture, however the pixelated reality is that you are in a pod plugged into your ship. Crew seems essential to complete all the little tasks our advanced awareness courtesy of being physically attached to the ships allows us, now of course we have great nano repairers but unless our ship interiors are stacked with robots to deliver them to needed spots we require mobile living crew.

Ships are built for the vast numbers of non- capsuleers in the EVE universe, therefor I would postulate our control pods and the ship wide connections thereto must surely be an available upgrade. In the EVE lore that I have read ships have crews, most ships are piloted by humans and when a capsuleer shows up he or she has a significant advantage over the non-capsuleer piloted vessels.

We are physically detached from our human crews and physically attached to the ship itself, add that to the fact that when we get killed we reanimate in another clone and you can see how that would be creepy for crew members to have to deal with on a close daily basis. Crews are tools we use to accomplish our goals and when we have to suicide a ship and lose a clone and it's implants if the isk makes it worthwhile we do it, unless our crews can get to escape pods in time they pay a higher price.

For the average spacer crew member I imagine it is a deal with the devil sort of relationship, capsuleer pilot probably means better contracts for the ship which means better pay for the crew, with the added benefit of safety from most human piloted pirate ships. But capsuleers do not fear death so being crew on their ships can be extremely hazardous, but space travel is not for the faint of heart.

I think the scenarios this juxtaposition creates is quite a dynamic one for lore/ story creation.


Power To The Players!

The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players!

Temba Ronin
#169 - 2012-10-05 19:42:00 UTC
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/New_Eden_crew_guidelines

This link shows crew compliments with and without a capsuleer pilot as well as the chances of survival when things go boom!

Power To The Players!

The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players!

ISD TYPE40
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#170 - 2012-10-07 15:06:57 UTC
Bluddwolf wrote:
David Forge wrote:
Capsuleers seem to have, more often than not, transcended both their humanity and any really strong affiliation with their empire. I would suspect only a minority would bother with racism at that point. To the average demigod I suspect that all crew members are equally expendable pieces of equipment.


This view ignores that fact that the factions are currently in a state of war, and an expanding one as Dust 514 approaches. EVE is also a very political, and cut throat, environment. It is not about racism, its about trust. Could a Minmatar capsuleer really trust Amarr crew members? Or a Caldari trust a Gallente?

This is not to say that all people are politically motivated, but the faction / empire structure definately makes it difficult for "enemy factions" to cooperate.



As a huge fan of EVE Lore I just wanted to chime in with my personal views on this matter.

It has been quite well documented that Independent Capsuleers, as in those not tied directly to any factions own corporations, are by and large completely uninterested in factional politics. We are, as is noted in one of the EVE novels and in numerous official chronicles, considered to be "beyond" the four races and that for this reason we pose a substantial risk.

[b]ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]

Roga Dracor
Federation of Freedom Fighters
VINDICTIVE
#171 - 2012-10-07 15:23:07 UTC
We are the Mule..Blink

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.

Gussarde en Welle
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#172 - 2012-10-11 14:06:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Gussarde en Welle
You have to think of capsuleers as the next step in capitalist hedgemony. Just as the modern multi-millionaire corporate industrialist views all other classes as fundamentally harmless and essentially expendable, take the capsuleer perspective to the next level. A capsuleer is essentially NOT HUMAN. Most times they are plugged into a giant machine with nearly no awarness of a human body attached to their brain. They have the funds and power to sway or destroy the politics, economy and ecologies of entire planets. Some EVE ships do run crews (big ones definitely do), but the crew members are easily spaced and are probably being watched with cameras aboard the ship. Who cares if a tiny little mortal wishes to steal from you? Vent the atmosphere. If not, send drones after them. Barring that, eject your pod and destroy the ship. Baseline humans are essentially helpless against a capsuleer pilot. That being said, a previous poster mentioned that people are willing to risk life and limb for pay all the time (crab fishermen)...What?
Roga Dracor
Federation of Freedom Fighters
VINDICTIVE
#173 - 2012-10-11 14:15:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
In that respect, I would liken them more to the colonial trading empires of our own history, such as the East Indies Trading Companies.. And the West Indies Trading Companies.. Alluded to as the first megacorporations in human history.. And think on the cyclic nature of New Eden.. And the origins of the races found here.. Drop the one and add zero to the end, or just add a zero to the dates from these wiki pages, look at the timeline and things become really interesting..

Yo, ho, haul together,
hoist the colors high.
Heave ho,
thieves and beggars,
never shall we die.

The king and his men
stole the queen from her bed
and bound her in her Bones.
The seas be ours
and by the powers
where we will we'll roam.

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.

Telegram Sam
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#174 - 2012-10-11 14:35:03 UTC
Though as a Minmatar I personally have little trust for the Amarr in general, I would and do take on crewmen of any race. Firstly (and sadly), I've lost more crews through ship destruction than I can even remember. Crew members have now become to me anonymous, interchangeable components that are simply required for ship operation. The days of hand-picking a crew for my first shiny new frigates are long gone.

Secondly, I use a crew staffing agency that seems to have a reliable system for vetting crewman. I trust them to have screened out any candidates who might pose a security risk. Why do I trust their screening system? Actually I don't, not 100%. But the other option is to personally screen 300 or so candidates each time I need a new crew.

Gussarde en Welle
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#175 - 2012-10-11 14:44:04 UTC
Telegram Sam wrote:
Though as a Minmatar I personally have little trust for the Amarr in general, I would and do take on crewmen of any race. Firstly (and sadly), I've lost more crews through ship destruction than I can even remember. Crew members have now become to me anonymous, interchangeable components that are simply required for ship operation. The days of hand-picking a crew for my first shiny new frigates are long gone.

Secondly, I use a crew staffing agency that seems to have a reliable system for vetting crewman. I trust them to have screened out any candidates who might pose a security risk. Why do I trust their screening system? Actually I don't, not 100%. But the other option is to personally screen 300 or so candidates each time I need a new crew.



Yeah. And if you don't like 'em, space 'em. It's that simple. They would have to get insured and sign release forms before they set foot on a ship in the first place anyway. You're in control of the ship's logs. What government is empowered to take action against you?
Gussarde en Welle
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#176 - 2012-10-11 15:06:47 UTC
AlleyKat wrote:
Twisted Xistance wrote:
To us a million isk is nothing though to a mortal it would be more isk than they could ever of dreamed of. I've not yet read any of the books (waiting eagerly for one to come in the post) though I speculate the costs involved in perspective to what a capsuleer actually makes from a single trit trade would be insignificant in comparison


And, herein lies one of the problems writers of EVE Fan fiction face.

Capsuleers are hard to write because in the face of adversity, they can buy a planet and have exotic dancers feed them for the rest of their days.

It's kinda hard for anyone to relate to someone who access to that level of living, and to be sympathetic towards them.

Would you be prepared to sit down in a bar and listen to the whimsical mumerings of a millionaire in real life? Especially if they began to complain and moan about how bad their life is...you might even take a few moments to reach for the nearest door...and slam their face into it.

No different than 'interview with a vampire', where the lead (Pitt) is whining throughout the entire film and the audience is just thinking 'man, if I was that unhappy, I'd just wait for the sun to come up'.

AK


This is completely true. The exchange rates between planetary currency and ISK are discussed in the early missions. A hundred million ISK could literally buy the whole economy of a nation, planetside. A few ISK buys literally hundreds of cubic meters of food ingame. Look at dairy products, 57 ISK buys 100 cubic meters of milk in game. For good milk IRL that would amount to about $200000 US/Canadian. A million ISK would therefore be 3.5 billion USD. Therefore 4.5 billion ISK could buy out the entire economy of the modern United States. A dedicated and experienced capsuleer could amass this in a few months.
Temba Ronin
#177 - 2012-10-14 00:33:37 UTC
Yes a capsuleer could bankroll an entire planetary invasion with his capital ship replacement slush fund, that is why the mortals fear us so! They know at any given moment or change in mood we can go from an essential element in their interplanetary commerce to their worst nightmare. So their pitiful pleas for better ecological and safety standards at our corp owned mining interests on their worlds get only so aggressive, not smart to **** off someone who can bombard you from orbit, embargo your jump gate, and transport in an army of immortal killers to hunt you down in your home.

Soon not even the Empires will be able to stand against determined capsuleers, the age of Mortal Racial & Political Empires are coming to end, hoist the corp banner of an Immortal Capsuleer Corp then fall to your kness and pray I am in a mood to allow your planet to continue it's existence.

It is in that era I write my first EVE short story "Empires Dusk, Capsuleers Dawn".

Power To The Players!

The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players!

Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera
#178 - 2012-10-18 21:54:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Silas Vitalia
The entirety of the EVE playerbase represent only one 'sort' of capsuleer, and I'd posit a small (but increasing) percentage.

No Empire would willingly educate, train, spend millions producing, and then simply give away that many powerful individuals.

I imagine as stipulation for signing the Yulai accords and setting up of CONCORD, the four empires agreed to let a certain percentage of their capsuleers have the option to 'go free' and that those are the sorts the we as players control.

You better believe the Amarr Empire or the Caldari State wouldn't be spending billions on r&d and military education of the most deadly technology in the known universe only to say 'here you go! go have fun!' after graduation.

When modern military spends millions training say, fighter pilots or special ops troops, they don't give you the damn plane and say 'go have fun' after you finish flight school.

Sabik now, Sabik forever

Bluddwolf
Heimatar Military Industries
#179 - 2012-10-19 20:45:11 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:

No Empire would willingly educate, train, spend millions producing, and then simply give away that many powerful individuals.


You better believe the Amarr Empire or the Caldari State wouldn't be spending billions on r&d and military education of the most deadly technology in the known universe only to say 'here you go! go have fun!' after graduation.

When modern military spends millions training say, fighter pilots or special ops troops, they don't give you the damn plane and say 'go have fun' after you finish flight school.


First, they send us on our way in frigates.

Secondly, most of us remain in a starter corp for a few weeks and that tax rate certainly recovers the cost of the frigate and much of the training.

Finally, don't think for a moment the "Empires" aren't getting their cut from the economy of war, death and resource exploitation that we generate every time we undock.

EVE Online Fan ... Looking for "End Game" since 2006 ... Happily, I still havn't found it

Moondancer Starweaver
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#180 - 2012-10-19 21:34:17 UTC
Temba Ronin wrote:
Yes a capsuleer could bankroll an entire planetary invasion with his capital ship replacement slush fund, that is why the mortals fear us so! They know at any given moment or change in mood we can go from an essential element in their interplanetary commerce to their worst nightmare. So their pitiful pleas for better ecological and safety standards at our corp owned mining interests on their worlds get only so aggressive, not smart to **** off someone who can bombard you from orbit, embargo your jump gate, and transport in an army of immortal killers to hunt you down in your home.

Soon not even the Empires will be able to stand against determined capsuleers, the age of Mortal Racial & Political Empires are coming to end, hoist the corp banner of an Immortal Capsuleer Corp then fall to your kness and pray I am in a mood to allow your planet to continue it's existence.

It is in that era I write my first EVE short story "Empires Dusk, Capsuleers Dawn".

Power To The Players!


New and just getting into the lore of eve and possibly into writing fiction i do have a question about this. Capsuleers are only "immortal" if we are in our pod and nothing goes wrong at the cloning facility. Basically we can be killed at any time we are not in a pod. All of our money and power etc we still rely on other people to do certain stuff for us like maintain clones, pod integrity etc. i am thinking about writing a story and want to get some facts straight.