EVE General Discussion

Nullsec is not safer than lowsec, it's just easier to secure and even with all those logistics support (JBs, POSes, etc.) there are places in nullsec where you --will-- die if you pass through if you don't have enough numbers, proper exit points or flying something bigger than a destroyer. There are also places that's on many cases safer than even hisec because of the existence of intel/local + stations/poses, but that's it, even a non-threat can force people to abandon their activities and go station spinning. There's the difference. If you discounted all of the logistic support and the effort people took to put them in place, nullsec are, on it's root, far more dangerous than lowsec (bubbles? bombs? bigger rats that actually hurts?), just look at npc null.

In lowsec, the mechanics doesn't allow security measures/logistic networks to be put in place, there's also that problem with not enough incentives for bigger entities to organize and secure spaces in lowsec.

Stop comparing those two. They're different, nullsec can be safer because people make it so.

We can manage here in losec. Why can't you?

LOL

No

Once the ISK is gone, the herd will move on. As for the people who stay and do so for FW I do think they deserve something worth doing. I just don't see it being popular as long as EVE is an ISK grind first and foremost.

It's true. I've lived there. Hulk fleets of 10+ with orca support. Any Rorquels (which there usually are) stick in a pos all day. Add in system upgrades and stations that give super yield bonuses. The mining people I knew out there had way too much zydrine and not enough pyrite. And lots of the mining areas are so remote, nobody will even bother to harass them. Lowsec has none of that.

Maybe for mining in LS just remove all asteroid belts, and give a loooots of gravis with veery good rocks.
No more afk mining, and profit if they give new only for LS mining ship with big bonus to yield and cargo.

For PVP i don't know it's a real hard to do it right, maybe divide each system to lots of sectors (shape of the honeycombs, give minimap for navigate), some sectors have rats, some strange effects buffing/nerfing stats, normally You can jump from first sector to even last, but if there's a player ship (no cloacked) on sector that is in straight way to Your next sector You just stop in it. New tactics, cool flanking, surrounding. Just quick idea without to much thinking, maybe stupid

The OP is reading to me as buff low by evicting its current resident. Aka nerf pirates. The only place one can be an outlaw in is empire. The current residents of low accept the aspect of their out law status. To evict them to null would only cause them to gain shiny sec status because null sec space gives the best sec gain.

The residents of low live there because they like it. They have to deal with the sake dangers that everyone else does. Each other. Yet, the complaint is that they are too good at this and sometimes get along so they need to go so that a peaceful group can come in and make a mini null?

No.

I agree with the majority of the OPs views here. Lowsec is a wasteland of the pirates own creation. Its quite obviously more dangerous than null, especcially considering how everyone is blue these days. When you're in the depths of alliance space, there is no risk. I used to rat for days on end and not see a single hostile. There is zero incentive for highsec players to make the transition to low as the rewards don't meet up with the insanely high risks. And yes, the pirates there are the ones that decide when and where the engagements happen, they they do their upmost to insure that its a fast and extremely one-sided battle. The newer and inexperienced players, as well as industrialists, have learned the hard way that lowsec is to be avoided on pain of death. The result? Lowsec is a barren wasteland, not fullfilling its function.

Personally, i still think CCPs suggestion of upgraded gateguns is the best solution. This way, cowardly gatecamps will be reduced, effectively allowing players to get a "foot in the door" into lowsec. So instead of an insta-death-camp, they can at the very least get to something in system that they can mine/shoot for profit, and have a chance to be able to react to hostiles. This in turn increases lowsec populations, giving cowardly campers more targets to explode. Literally a win-win.

The only problem is that aforementioned cowardly campers can't accept the idea of actually having to hunt down their targets the traditional way. I can only assume that its something they've never actually had to do. I guess not having their victims march lemmings-style single file into their gatecamp is simply unacceptable!

These pirate-whine threads are always entertaining. The concern-trolling is hilarious. "You high sec carebears can make it in low sec! Trust us! We definintely won't blow up your ship the second you enter a system! We definitely won't ambush your mining barge in the belts or scan you down while you're running anoms! We won't pop your indy when you're trying to run PI mats or manufactured items back to a trade hub! Trust us!"

Pirates are causing the very problem they're whining about. By making it impossible for non-PVP players to survive in nullsec, they guarantee that the only population of low sec space is e-peen queens. Hence the content-free dead-zone that low security space is right now.

Industrials and PVE-fit combat ships die in PVP -- that's a fact. And it's not just a matter of fits: the skills a pilot needs for PVP are different than the ones needed for industry or even PVE. The "rewards" that low security space offers PVE'ers and industrialists aren't even close to offsetting the virtual certainty that they will lose their ship and probably their pod (and implants) in fairly short order. The "rewards" remain uncollected because it's just too difficult to acquire them. High security space may offer lower absolute rewards, but they can be collected much easier and in far greater amounts. The only way to get more PVE/industrialist players into low security space is to extend CONCORD protection, and that would cause a flood of pirate tears that would drown the world.

The main problem is that CCP can't quite figure out what low security space is for. It's certainly not meant for industry -- it's suicide for an industrial toon to try and make ISK in low sec. It's not missions or incursions or other PVE content -- incursions in lowsec and null usually wither and die without ever being run at all. Pirates themselves actually PVE far more than they PVP simply due to lack of targets, and the need to make ISK...and even then many pirates spin up an Empire alt to actually make ISK while the pirate toon roams the deep with the other sharks.

I've often thought that a good way to open up low security space to non-combat toons is to allow a corp to "rent" CONCORD protection for a given amount of time. Or have some lows sec version of the US Marshals -- an extension of CONCORD that only operates in systems where a "rent" has been paid by an owning corp. "Renting" this service wouldn't be cheap (hence the risk vs reward thing), but it would provide an incentive for industrial corps to put down roots in low sec systems. The low sec Marshals service would otherwise operate like CONCORD in high sec.

It's every pipe system, or the ones on the way to a trade hub. And even on gates that aren't perma-camped 24x7, you'll get targeted by a roam within 2 jumps, guaranteed. There is no system remote enough or dead-end enough to escape roaming gangs of bored pirates. And when the gates aren't perma-camped, the stations are. The hoops you have to go through to safely dock and undock are ridiculous: insta-warp undock bookmarks, having a scout alt in system to see if the station is camped before your main undocks, etc...it's just a stupid and pointless waste of time for most players. It's not fun, or rewarding, or educational. So why do it?

yup, that is totally why 4 of the top 15 corps in battleclinic are pirate corps based in lowsec. Totally a wasteland with nothing to do

On another note. There are numerous lowsec indy groups. However, they a) don't advertise it and b) are well protected and c) have connections to null to call in the batphone when necessary.

Could lowsec use a population boost or a better reason to be there for the little guy? Sure, both low and null need it. Is it as dire as failpirates and butthurt carebears make it seem? Of course not, otherwise no one would be there now.