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Low Sec is beyond broken

Author
pyr8t
S0 L337 1T HURTS
#1 - 2012-10-03 05:25:39 UTC  |  Edited by: pyr8t
Low Sec; not as dangerous as Null Sec while more profitable than High Sec--is the most dynamic and entertaining gameplay in all of Eve---except it isn't. In fact, none of that is true.

The reality: Null Sec is both safer and more rewarding than Low Sec with high sec even safer and more (most?) rewarding.

It's unfortunate.

Everything boomerangs back to one-to-two core issues: The first , industrialists can't make it in Low Sec. They simply can't. For instance, mining in Low Sec is straight-up an impossibility. You will get raped at lightning speed. In order to mine a simple belt or gravimetric site, you must have a sizable fleet worth of protection just to mine. Not feasible. Not realistic. And not worth it considering the ore there. (Even ninja mining in Low Sec makes no sense as mining is all about yield and you want to remain uninterrupted. Stopping to dock-up every few min (sometimes seconds) blows your yield to the point you'll earn multiples more in High Sec mining lower quality ore but without interruption). Comparatively, Null Sec is actually much safer---just mine in your blue blackwater and your only worry is rats (that is to say: no worry at all).

The largest misconception among all players is that Null Sec is this ultra dangerous mysterious place, and theoretically it is, but not in practice.

There's no Sovereignty in Low Sec. No borders; no blue shield. Just a single roaming pirate in low sec is enough to keep a large amount of systems off-limits to players. And more than one roaming pirate is a huge force multiplier, the effect of which is lost on most players: effectively sealing off large swaths of low sec as a no-go area for any productive activity. Even that quiet-out-of-the-way terminus system is now a no-go.

The majority of most gate-camps I see now consist of only two ships: a faction BS combined with an insta-locking frigate. Can't hang around long, but it's devastatingly effective.

This can't be what we want for this game.

As a Pirate, I have every advantage over you. I control if I want to attack you (which is always), how I want to attack you, and when. That's a huge advantage. You'll get scanned down and your day ruined. There are so many pirates in low sec and so few targets that calling for back-up is a cinch--everyone's constantly foaming at the mouth for a new target, eager for a kill.

And by the way, life as a Pirate isn't negatively impacted in any real tangible way. Even -10's dash through high sec systems and dock at stations to gear up. So it's all rather ridiculous.

So, pirates are a problem. They're too dominate. The consequences negligible at best if not totally non-existant. I'm sure someone who thinks they know how this game works will attempt to say, "well just form up and kill the pirate gangs, go bust them up!" . Ummmmm. Yeah. Sure. Well, it's not being done, is it? I don't claim to know why. Risk/reward is one reason, certainly. The engagements are usually stacked against you for another. Attacks come at random, etc. But beyond that, I don't know.

What I do know is that Low Sec is completely not worth it in any way. That's the second fundamental problem: no reward for the full-on outright stacked-against you overbearing risk. I just witnessed a pirate jump a frigate miner in a command ship (he had a insta locking alt too). It's beyond overkill but that's what people are up against. The point here is that even with more reward in low sec, the risk is still too fantastical.

Thus, two things need to happen: (1)The lower you are on the negative sec status scale, you should be locked out (actually locked out, as in gates/stations will not function for you) of corresponding higher systems. Once you get -10, you're locked out of all Empire (low/high sec) and pushed out to 0.0,. It's past time for serious consequences to negative sec status. And (2) Higher reward for low sec.
Borisk Zeltsh
Alcohlics Anonymous
#2 - 2012-10-03 05:31:44 UTC
You compare losec to 0.0?

The both are totaly difrent

0.0 is blob fest nap fest sea of blues intel chans jump bridges of course its gona be safer

losec were your free to do what you like when you like small blue list if any loads lone wolfs live by your wits your next jump might be your last also logistics alot harber no jb's

so to compare the both is silly

o.o easy mode

losec hard mode
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#3 - 2012-10-03 05:34:29 UTC
Quote:
The reality: Null Sec is both safer and more rewarding than Low Sec with high sec even safer and more (most?) rewarding.


Lol.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#4 - 2012-10-03 05:36:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Touval Lysander
Borisk Zeltsh wrote:
You compare losec to 0.0?

The both are totaly difrent

0.0 is blob fest nap fest sea of blues intel chans jump bridges of course its gona be safer

losec were your free to do what you like when you like small blue list if any loads lone wolfs live by your wits your next jump might be your last also logistics alot harber no jb's

so to compare the both is silly

o.o easy mode

losec hard mode

I felt safer in 0.0 than I ever did in lowsec.

eg: I did 28+ jumps in a shuttle from deep inside Fountain the other day to highsec as neut. Only time I actually felt threatened was when I hit orange space. For real.

And you make a good point on mining in lowsec. Used to do it solo and spent all day making 10m just ços I needed the Zyd.

In 0.0, felt safer with intel, jammed and dead-end pockets and bubbled gates. Make 100m+ a day no probs.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."

ACE McFACE
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#5 - 2012-10-03 05:41:44 UTC
You're right that null is safer than low. But considering all that stuff with the crazy amounts of ISK you can make in Minmatar FW its certainly profitable

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.

Samroski
Middle-Earth
#6 - 2012-10-03 05:54:21 UTC
Maybe the problem is the way we perceive low and null sec. We presume that low sec is safer etc. It is not.

The correct interpretation:

null sec = few threats, relatively safe
low sec = dangerous space

That should sort out the problem.

Any colour you like.

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-10-03 06:17:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
lowsec isn't inherently dangerous, just more difficult to secure for anyone
so, working as intended

hth
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2012-10-03 06:24:43 UTC
oh btw, lowsec doesn't seem very risky for the pirate camping a gate in his pimpboat
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#9 - 2012-10-03 06:25:44 UTC
Low sec isn't harder to secure, it's effectively impossible.
Damsa Desirah
The Tourniquet Group
#10 - 2012-10-03 06:26:33 UTC
Not really... Ladar sites are so much fun! I have a vengeance fit specifically to mine Gas while I press my Dscan.... Because dead end space pockets exist in lowsec...

It's not what your Alliance can do for you... It's what you can do to them before they realize you really work for the almighty WormHole God, BoB...

Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#11 - 2012-10-03 06:27:43 UTC
Damsa Desirah wrote:
Not really... Ladar sites are so much fun! I have a vengeance fit specifically to mine Gas while I press my Dscan.... Because dead end space pockets exist in lowsec...

I support this degree of ingenuity. +1.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

Damsa Desirah
The Tourniquet Group
#12 - 2012-10-03 06:30:40 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Damsa Desirah wrote:
Not really... Ladar sites are so much fun! I have a vengeance fit specifically to mine Gas while I press my Dscan.... Because dead end space pockets exist in lowsec...

I support this degree of ingenuity. +1.


Thanks! I figured I might as well not let those Gases go to some other person... I don't fly barges, and I like how my vengeance looks :D

My corps always yells at me for doing it too :(

It's not what your Alliance can do for you... It's what you can do to them before they realize you really work for the almighty WormHole God, BoB...

General Nusense
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-10-03 06:32:49 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Damsa Desirah wrote:
Not really... Ladar sites are so much fun! I have a vengeance fit specifically to mine Gas while I press my Dscan.... Because dead end space pockets exist in lowsec...

I support this degree of ingenuity. +1.


I see you have had time to post again, Just wondering on the ETA of those KMs that you said you would link. Because its totally relevant to whats going on in the north.

Tia.

Made a signature so I am taken seriously on the forums, since thats the only thing they are good for.

Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#14 - 2012-10-03 06:33:31 UTC
Damsa Desirah wrote:
Not really... Ladar sites are so much fun! I have a vengeance fit specifically to mine Gas while I press my Dscan.... Because dead end space pockets exist in lowsec...


Can you identify a way in which this is meaningfully less risky than doing the same exact thing in a dead end pocket in nullsec?
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2012-10-03 06:36:51 UTC
bubbles, locked out of station

hth
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#16 - 2012-10-03 06:40:39 UTC
Assuming you aren't just ninja gasmining for the thrill of it, it's the people trying to kill you that have to deal with bubbles and being unable to dock.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2012-10-03 06:46:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
ninja gasminers don't need stations to unload their cargobays, or worry about travelling from system to system to get to and transport their produce. only the guys trying to kill them do, hence the difference between low and null must be illusory. the desire for gas must be that powerful, wau
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#18 - 2012-10-03 07:04:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Touval Lysander wrote:
Borisk Zeltsh wrote:
You compare losec to 0.0?

The both are totaly difrent

0.0 is blob fest nap fest sea of blues intel chans jump bridges of course its gona be safer

losec were your free to do what you like when you like small blue list if any loads lone wolfs live by your wits your next jump might be your last also logistics alot harber no jb's

so to compare the both is silly

o.o easy mode

losec hard mode

I felt safer in 0.0 than I ever did in lowsec.

eg: I did 28+ jumps in a shuttle from deep inside Fountain the other day to highsec as neut. Only time I actually felt threatened was when I hit orange space. For real.

And you make a good point on mining in lowsec. Used to do it solo and spent all day making 10m just ços I needed the Zyd.

In 0.0, felt safer with intel, jammed and dead-end pockets and bubbled gates. Make 100m+ a day no probs.




I spent two months in 0.0 and only saw someone ONCE. Yes, ONCE.

I used wormholes to get there, and wormholes to get back to empire. No gank pipelines and instaspanking camps for me. 0.0 is DEAD empty.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-10-03 08:02:53 UTC
pyr8t wrote:
Null Sec is both safer

When nullsec has no rewards worth living there for, less people bother to roam around there as well. Blame CCP for making it so we don't even have to patrol our own space to keep it safe, because everyone has moved back to low or hisec when they're not flying in fleets.

pyr8t wrote:
and more rewarding than Low Sec with high sec even safer and more (most?) rewarding.

I guess you haven't caught on to the fact that FW is basically shitting wealth for absolutely no risk whatsoever, meaning low trumps null for rewards by a huge margin.

pyr8t wrote:
The largest misconception among all players is that Null Sec is this ultra dangerous mysterious place, and theoretically it is, but not in practice.

No, the largest misconception amongst a large portion of all players is that nullsec should be where nullsec players go to lose their ships the instant THEY roam through it. Security is player-provided, if the owners of space are capable of keeping said space safe from roamers, then yes, that's safe space. If they're not, then no, it's not safe space. If nobody roams through the space because they know there won't be any worthwhile ganks to be had because hardly anybody lives out there, then it's also pretty safe space for the few who do live there.

pyr8t wrote:
Just a single roaming pirate in low sec is enough to keep a large amount of systems off-limits to players.

Sounds like a bad case of the carebear.

pyr8t wrote:
So, pirates are a problem. They're too dominate.

They only dominate if people let them dominate.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Alice Saki
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#20 - 2012-10-03 08:04:54 UTC
Yarrr you be Silly OP

FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - Currenly rebuilding gaming machine, I will Return.

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