These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Stop forcing me to wear high heels

First post
Author
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#221 - 2012-09-08 20:21:26 UTC
Isabel Midnight wrote:
Intent is not part of the term. People have even posted wikipedia definitions and such in here and intent has never been mentioned.

If you step on my foot it hurts me regardless of your intent. If someone stood on your foot and you started wailing about how you didn't mean to step on it so how dare they feel pain....

Hatred is an active and intentional thing.

Misogyny cannot be done without intending to.
Just like racism cannot be unintentional, as it requires the person to have a hatred/dislike of the other race.
Xuixien
Critical Horizon
#222 - 2012-09-08 21:59:22 UTC
Isabel wrote:
dumb ass men.


Stopped reading here.

Obviously don't respect men, so why should the game be changed to suite your tastes?

You are also not a spaceship captain. You are a capsuleer. Get ready for this: Your character is naked whenever they are piloting a ship.

My advice is HTFU.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist

Xuixien
Critical Horizon
#223 - 2012-09-08 22:03:26 UTC
In our day and age you can be accused of "misogyny" for stating that men should have equal rights when it comes to family planning. Roll

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist

Ellariona
B52 Bombers
#224 - 2012-09-09 15:28:25 UTC
I have long ago joined the hominist movement because of the inbalance that has been brought up by feminism.
Isabel Midnight
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#225 - 2012-09-09 15:39:15 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
In our day and age you can be accused of "misogyny" for stating that men should have equal rights when it comes to family planning. Roll




Gonna quote this for posterity cos goddamn.
Lili Lu
#226 - 2012-09-09 15:47:13 UTC
Vive la difference.

But high heels are not part of that evolution. CCP, please get rid of them.

And how about long dresses? And bring back many of the hair styles and clothing from the old character portrait generator you forgot to import with Incarna. Like male Intaki hair. Transluscent and lace veils. Molded ornamental collars (like I used to have Cry) . . .
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#227 - 2012-09-09 19:20:46 UTC
Lili Lu wrote:
Vive la difference.

...

And how about long dresses? And bring back many of the hair styles and clothing from the old character portrait generator you forgot to import with Incarna. Like male Intaki hair. Transluscent and lace veils. Molded ornamental collars (like I used to have Cry) . . .

I'm in full agreement with this. We lost a lot of the culture of EVE with the much more reserved styles with Incarna.
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#228 - 2012-09-09 20:07:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Deviana Sevidon
To the OP:

I salute you for a great troll thread.

However I have few suggestions on how you can improve:

1.
Don't overplay, the men hating combat boot wearing lesbian. It is rather easy to see through your role.

2.
Posting as a member of an alliance full of WiS haters about a rather small feature of said WiS is also a dead giveaway of your intentions. Make an alt character and place it in a small corp or alliance.

3.
If you would be serious about the issue you would post a well constructed post in the feature and idea forum, not attacking other EVE players,

4.
Besides the high heels here are rather tame ones. If you have seen [insert generic asia MMO] girls with impossible huge boobs, skimpy armor etc, then a feminist might have reason to complain.

5.
There is no fifth!

....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.

Isabel Midnight
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#229 - 2012-09-09 21:15:47 UTC
It's come to my attention that the Reddit website has picked up on this thread of mine. I take this as a good sign because if a website that is rated as a bastion of misogyny (http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2012/spring/misogyny-the-sites) gets upset about this ..
Xuixien
Critical Horizon
#230 - 2012-09-09 22:25:39 UTC
The word "misogyny" has been so over-used as a shaming tactic that it has essentially lost all of it's meaning. The only place it holds any value as a word anymore is within feminist echo-chambers.


Further reading
.

Also: LOL @ quoting anything from the SPLC.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist

Sal Volatile
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#231 - 2012-09-09 23:50:57 UTC
As a man, I fully support the OP. Also, people whose ideas about misogyny are informed by the men's rights movement are profoundly ignorant and blind to their own privilege. Misogyny is not meaningless, it's very real, it often exists by inertia or is deeply embedded in culture and is deeply internalized, and pointing it out does not make anyone a "man hater."

Of course, videogame culture is highly reactionary, very young, and very uneducated, so this discussion will probably not be terribly productive.
Xuixien
Critical Horizon
#232 - 2012-09-10 01:57:46 UTC
Sal Volatile wrote:
As a man, I fully support the OP. Also, people whose ideas about misogyny are informed by the men's rights movement are profoundly ignorant and blind to their own privilege. Misogyny is not meaningless, it's very real, it often exists by inertia or is deeply embedded in culture and is deeply internalized, and pointing it out does not make anyone a "man hater."


There is no such thing as male privilege. Unless you're talking about...

70-80% of the victims of violent crime are............ men.
Most **** victims are.......... men.
Most military casualties are.......... men.
Most people killed on the job are........ men.
The people working the tough and dangerous jobs are...... men.
Perpetrators of domestic violence are equally likely to be male or female, yet domestic abusers are only portrayed as......... men.
As much as 40% of child molesters are female, yet child molesters are only portrayed as......... men.
"Primary Aggressor" laws mean that even if the perpetrator is female, the people arrested for domestic disputes are.............. men.

INB4 B-b-b-b-b-but CEO's.

Sal Volatile wrote:
Of course, videogame culture is highly reactionary, very young, and very uneducated, so this discussion will probably not be terribly productive.


The whole "if you don't agree with me you're stupid" line leads me to believe you're a troll.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist

Vertinox
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#233 - 2012-09-10 01:58:45 UTC
Dersen Lowery wrote:
A constructive reply: The change you want probably won't happen soon.

The problem is that realistic collision detection is exponentially complex, with the exponent roughly corresponding to the number of different heights that the engine has to take into account. This is why, at present, all capsuleers are the exact same height, about 5'8"--men in flats, women in heels. Give women the option to drop to 5'5" or so in flats, and you've just made it harder. Making flats the default shoe for women is even more work, because all the models are designed to be 5'8" in heels. CCP would have to find some way to add a few inches of height to every female toon without making any of them look absurd. Not to mention that they'd have to have two default female poses, since heels change the way that you stand and walk.

I support the feature. Just be aware that implementing it has complications, and CCP will have to engineer around them. It's not as simple as adding flats to the character customization options.



Or they could... You know... Maybe make players with different sizes with a height slider bar like some many other 3rd rate MMOs do.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#234 - 2012-09-10 03:07:27 UTC
Vertinox wrote:
Dersen Lowery wrote:
A constructive reply: The change you want probably won't happen soon.

The problem is that realistic collision detection is exponentially complex, with the exponent roughly corresponding to the number of different heights that the engine has to take into account. This is why, at present, all capsuleers are the exact same height, about 5'8"--men in flats, women in heels. Give women the option to drop to 5'5" or so in flats, and you've just made it harder. Making flats the default shoe for women is even more work, because all the models are designed to be 5'8" in heels. CCP would have to find some way to add a few inches of height to every female toon without making any of them look absurd. Not to mention that they'd have to have two default female poses, since heels change the way that you stand and walk.

I support the feature. Just be aware that implementing it has complications, and CCP will have to engineer around them. It's not as simple as adding flats to the character customization options.



Or they could... You know... Maybe make players with different sizes with a height slider bar like some many other 3rd rate MMOs do.

Not possible yet with the animation engine (or something like that).
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#235 - 2012-09-10 03:12:56 UTC
Isabel Midnight wrote:
Every single boot or shoe in NEX or available through the character creation thing has a massive heel on it. It's a joke and insanely misogynistic to have not even considered this massive oversight. I hate wearing high heels in real life as they are painful and extremely awkward to walk in and mostly only for pleasing dumb ass men.

CCP art team needs to pull their head out their ass and introduce some non high heels for female characters to wear. I'm supposed to be a spaceship captain. I need actual practical shoes. Male character's get them.

You could also fix this by removing the 'gender' requirement on clothing but I guess that's another post.

STOP FORCING WOMEN TO WEAR HIGH HEELS IN VIDEO GAMES


For anyone who is unclear this isn't a joke post or a troll. I legitimately think a game that offers character customization that forces me to wear high heels in 2012 is disgusting.

Honestly i actually think heels SHOULD be in the game, but only as a very small set of shoes amongst myriad of choices, as everyone has their own personal tastes.

but (as a guy) i HATE heels, they look horrible, are honestly quite pointless, and just frankly are not very logical as shoes.
i dont know, maybe i prefer a more utilitarian look, but i was SO GLAD when i found out my GF preffered boots and jeans instead of heels and skirts.
Lady Hanguko
Koho Exploitation Corporation
#236 - 2012-09-10 06:43:14 UTC
Lol

Isabel Midnight, u sure are in the right place for socio-political bullshit. Yep, it only makes since, since your a congress women, and this is obviously not eve online, but in fact US Congress.....
Look kid, some1 gonna have to tell u eventually... sorry it has to be me... u see, this is a video entertainment product, a game. Yeah, i know u don't believe it, but i swear its so. You can look it up on the Wikipedia, if you don't believe me.











PS: Isabel, unless you be some1 i know in RL, i personally cant care less if u are a women, a man or an alien. I don't really care about your political and social views. That why i play this game, cause i don't have to care about none of it. I care if i can kill you, Isabel, or if you can kill me, and if i need to come up with something better. I care about this next ship im gonna buy, to kill you, or the ship you gonna buy to kill me.
The very last thing i care about then i see a potential target, after its fitting, cargo, support if any, tactics... is gonna be that shoes you wear. Somehow i think im not one of the kind.
Lady Hanguko
Koho Exploitation Corporation
#237 - 2012-09-10 07:06:44 UTC
Haha, but it is an idea, gotta give it to u. The very next1 time im gonna engage, 1st thing im gonna check is shoes... i donno maybe u on to something imao.....
Elshar Khandar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#238 - 2012-09-10 09:32:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Elshar Khandar
Isabel Midnight wrote:
Intent is not part of the term. People have even posted wikipedia definitions and such in here and intent has never been mentioned.

If you step on my foot it hurts me regardless of your intent. If someone stood on your foot and you started wailing about how you didn't mean to step on it so how dare they feel pain....


Unfortunately your analogy doesn't work.

If I stepped on your foot intentionally because I hate women in general, not because it was an accident or because I've developed a deep seated hatred of you personally due to your behaviour and biggotry then it would be classed as misogyny.

If I stepped on your foot because it was an accident, whether it hurt or not it would still be an accident and not have anything to do with misogyny.

If I stepped on your foot intentionally to hurt you because I'd developed a deep seated hatred or dislike of you personally because of your behaviour, biggotry and opinions it would still not be misogyny, it would be because I dislike or hate you, not all women.

Therefore, intent does indeed matter. In fact, it's the defining factor as to whether the action is misogynistic or not.

As I've expressed before, please acquaint yourself with an accurate definition of misogyny.
Isabel Midnight
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#239 - 2012-09-10 12:22:11 UTC
It's hilarious went dudes post about how 'oppressed' they are in these modern times.
Elshar Khandar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#240 - 2012-09-10 12:43:11 UTC
@ Isabel Midnight

So you're ignoring the fact that every post you've made regarding misogyny is factually incorrect, then?

It's interesting to see you ranting about how marginalised you are whilst completely ignoring any explanations of why you're wrong.

One might make the assumption that you know you're wrong and you're merely trolling.

For the time being I'll give you the benefit of the doubt but you're not helping your cause by ignoring people who are trying to actually help your understanding regarding what you're trying to claim.