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Missions & Complexes

 
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Regarding AFK Complex Farming

First post First post
Author
Evanga
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#181 - 2012-08-09 16:17:44 UTC
yes, stop afk cloaking!
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#182 - 2012-08-09 16:18:28 UTC
Naomi Shana wrote:


Every single person who has ever walked away from their computer while running the game, for any length of time or reason, read your news article and said, "What?!"



Not so!

I go afk quite a lot - and I read the announcement and thought, "This should be good - there are lots of people who can't read beyond a 4th grade level and will make wild assumptions about this one."

*popcorn*

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

SmashTech
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#183 - 2012-08-09 16:21:02 UTC
So instead of fixing the problem, which is infinitely spawning rats in highsec complexes, you wrote an algorithm to ban people who take advantage (in the same way that OTEC takes advantage, for example) of your lousy game design for their own profit.

This is such a great way to fix the problem.

Instead of fixing the complexes, you have now opened the door to any kind AFK moneymaking being labeled illegal and AFK profits being wrong (after you redesigned mining ships to function much better AFK).

Your brilliance shines like the light of a thousand suns.
ps3ud0nym
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
United Federation of Conifers
#184 - 2012-08-09 16:22:55 UTC
This is a fantastic change! The big question though, is this going to be applied fairly? If you are going to hit AFK complex runners, then you most certainly should be hitting AFK miners.
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#185 - 2012-08-09 16:24:32 UTC
Why was the first priority to ban the player instead of fixing the game?

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION

Suqq Madiq
#186 - 2012-08-09 16:24:42 UTC
ps3ud0nym wrote:
This is a fantastic change! The big question though, is this going to be applied fairly? If you are going to hit AFK complex runners, then you most certainly should be hitting AFK miners.


Are you unable to read? Or is it simply your comprehension that is stunted? This is about a very specific form of AFK Plexing that in no way has anything to do with mining or any other activities or scenarios that your feeble mind can imagine. Enough with the strawmen, k?
Hassel Leet
New Rules
#187 - 2012-08-09 16:25:23 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
Naomi Shana wrote:


Every single person who has ever walked away from their computer while running the game, for any length of time or reason, read your news article and said, "What?!"



Not so!

I go afk quite a lot - and I read the announcement and thought, "This should be good - there are lots of people who can't read beyond a 4th grade level and will make wild assumptions about this one."

*popcorn*




This ^
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#188 - 2012-08-09 16:27:02 UTC
SmashTech wrote:
So instead of fixing the problem, which is infinitely spawning rats in highsec complexes, you wrote an algorithm to ban people who take advantage (in the same way that OTEC takes advantage, for example) of your lousy game design for their own profit.

This is such a great way to fix the problem.

Instead of fixing the complexes, you have now opened the door to any kind AFK moneymaking being labeled illegal and AFK profits being wrong (after you redesigned mining ships to function much better AFK).

Your brilliance shines like the light of a thousand suns.


LOL

The algorithm already existed to catch botters.

It revealed these people too and banned them.

They complained that they weren't botting.

CCP thought, "Oh hey, this should probably be fixed and specifically outlawed too since its like botting without a bot. Let's warn people and erase the bad mark on their permanent record."

CCP puts steps in motion to fix problem, makes announcement that this is now a Bad Thing™

Insert eleventy-hundred forum idiots who can't read but are good at shiptoasting.

There, now everyone should be caught up with the tl;dr version of events.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

Fatbear
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#189 - 2012-08-09 16:28:41 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:

Anyone who was performing the activity I'm referring to in the news item has most likely already been banned for doing so. Another item about the belt ratting bit is that in the scenario you paint the amount of income gained is basically nothing. In the scenario we're specifically discussing in this thread you are making a lot more money. By a factor of a whole bunch.


This is a worrying post.

As stated by others, you've just placed a monetary value on the acceptable limit of AFK performance.

You've just quite directly said that 23/7 AFK drone farming is perfectly acceptable in one form (belt ratting) because the income is low, but bannable in another form (these funky COSMOS things) because the income is high.


I really don't mean to sound as if I'm jumping on the "flame a dev" wagon here, but I'd rather be clear on details and you seem to clarify in one step then muddy the waters with another.
A Research Alt
Perkone
Caldari State
#190 - 2012-08-09 16:30:32 UTC
Yeah now that I think about it CCP should ban everyone involved in moon mining, too, since they never do anything past the initial set up and the occasional run every few days to collect money.

BAN MOON MINERS, IT'S ONLY FAIR.
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#191 - 2012-08-09 16:32:19 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:

It's not about botting. It just so happens that this is the discussion we're usually having when we're talking about this type of behavior.

:edit: In this case someone was making significant income running their PC 24 hours a day 7 days a week. The system designed to detect that did. Enter news item.

Of course this is about botting. It was detected by the "never a false positive" botting system, botting sanctions (presumably including the 'no character transfers' sanction) were applied, and the activity was described as being effectively the same as botting when - according to the rule players have for what botting is, "using a bot" - it isn't, all make this an issue where we're talking about botting. And we're talking about botting because Team Security is handling it instead of the GM team. And it's not that there was internal deliberation over who ought to handle this. The sequence of events was that Team Security had a false positive and flagged a NotBot as a bot. Botting sanctions were applied, and the player at issue petitioned to prove he was not a bot and did so successfully. In response, Team Security declared that it didn't matter he was a Notbot instead of a bot, and declared that the botting algorithms flagging him as a bot were not a false positive. That response wasn't from a GM. That was from a member of team security.

Only after outrage over this response, presumably, was this internal deliberative process invoked where Team Security had already taken over, to confirm what had already happened. That was a mistake. Team Security deals with botting issues, and we know this is a botting issue and not a standard "spirit of the EULA" issue because it's only botting issues that bypass the GMs.

You also, again, give us a really bad rule when you say you can't get a "tangible benefit" from afk activity: afk cloaking gives me an extremely tangible benefit. I deny my opponent income, give myself the chance for kills, get hilarious rage in local. Used en masse, I can shut down an enemy alliance's income stream (as in a post-tech environment ratting and renting fees are your income) allowing me and my friends to take over a region. In fact, this is commonly used for this exact purpose. None of these are raw isk, but it's still an extremely tangible benefit you can quantify relatively easily.

There's a reason the GM team deals with these rules: they're used to thinking them through and giving players good, clear, and fair rules that are intended to apply anywhere they would reasonably be thought to apply rather than simply one-off cases where the rule given doesn't apply anywhere else.
Octoven
Noir Holdings
#192 - 2012-08-09 16:34:24 UTC
A Research Alt wrote:
Yeah now that I think about it CCP should ban everyone involved in moon mining, too, since they never do anything past the initial set up and the occasional run every few days to collect money.

BAN MOON MINERS, IT'S ONLY FAIR.


This would certainly fall under the category of making tons of money in a 24 hour period now doesnt it? lol
ps3ud0nym
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
United Federation of Conifers
#193 - 2012-08-09 16:36:50 UTC
Suqq Madiq wrote:
ps3ud0nym wrote:
This is a fantastic change! The big question though, is this going to be applied fairly? If you are going to hit AFK complex runners, then you most certainly should be hitting AFK miners.


Are you unable to read? Or is it simply your comprehension that is stunted? This is about a very specific form of AFK Plexing that in no way has anything to do with mining or any other activities or scenarios that your feeble mind can imagine. Enough with the strawmen, k?



Apparently you didn't read the entire dev blog. I shall repost the parts that are relevant, but I doubt your ability to read words of more than a single syllable. You seem particularly stupid:

"While this activity does not necessitate the use of a 3rd party program in order to carry it out you ARE generating income in an automated fashion while sleeping which is not being present playing the game."

AFK mining is also "Generating an income in an automated fashion".

How exactly do you manage to live without a brain is a mystery for the ages.
Gossamer DT
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#194 - 2012-08-09 16:38:21 UTC
I too once had a sandbox, I keep changing it adding restriction that firmed up the sand like: Calcium, Aluminum, iron and water...

I no longer have a sandbox

who is your main, and what does he do?

Claire Voyant
#195 - 2012-08-09 16:38:24 UTC
So Sreegs has stated that there exists an automated system that bans players if they are AFK and making a lot of money. Should I be worried?
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#196 - 2012-08-09 16:38:40 UTC
Octoven wrote:
A Research Alt wrote:
Yeah now that I think about it CCP should ban everyone involved in moon mining, too, since they never do anything past the initial set up and the occasional run every few days to collect money.

BAN MOON MINERS, IT'S ONLY FAIR.


This would certainly fall under the category of making tons of money in a 24 hour period now doesnt it? lol


Agreed. Ban all moon mining.

Trillions made a week.

Where I am.

Suqq Madiq
#197 - 2012-08-09 16:40:14 UTC
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Suqq Madiq wrote:
ps3ud0nym wrote:
This is a fantastic change! The big question though, is this going to be applied fairly? If you are going to hit AFK complex runners, then you most certainly should be hitting AFK miners.


Are you unable to read? Or is it simply your comprehension that is stunted? This is about a very specific form of AFK Plexing that in no way has anything to do with mining or any other activities or scenarios that your feeble mind can imagine. Enough with the strawmen, k?



Apparently you didn't read the entire dev blog. I shall repost the parts that are relevant, but I doubt your ability to read words of more than a single syllable. You seem particularly stupid:

"While this activity does not necessitate the use of a 3rd party program in order to carry it out you ARE generating income in an automated fashion while sleeping which is not being present playing the game."

AFK mining is also "Generating an income in an automated fashion".

How exactly do you manage to live without a brain is a mystery for the ages.


Look at you with all your wits about you. It's cute and mildly impressive. But it still doesn't discount the fact that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Keep throwing out those strawmen though. You totally don't like a tool because of it.
Mike Head
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#198 - 2012-08-09 16:40:52 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
SmashTech wrote:
So instead of fixing the problem, which is infinitely spawning rats in highsec complexes, you wrote an algorithm to ban people who take advantage (in the same way that OTEC takes advantage, for example) of your lousy game design for their own profit.

This is such a great way to fix the problem.

Instead of fixing the complexes, you have now opened the door to any kind AFK moneymaking being labeled illegal and AFK profits being wrong (after you redesigned mining ships to function much better AFK).

Your brilliance shines like the light of a thousand suns.


LOL

The algorithm already existed to catch botters.

It revealed these people too and banned them.

They complained that they weren't botting.

CCP thought, "Oh hey, this should probably be fixed and specifically outlawed too since its like botting without a bot. Let's warn people and erase the bad mark on their permanent record."

CCP puts steps in motion to fix problem, makes announcement that this is now a Bad Thing™

Insert eleventy-hundred forum idiots who can't read but are good at shiptoasting.

There, now everyone should be caught up with the tl;dr version of events.


Anyone who understands what's going on should continually quote this. Just quote this. Get the message out.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#199 - 2012-08-09 16:41:53 UTC
Claire Voyant wrote:
So Sreegs has stated that there exists an automated system that bans players if they are AFK and making a lot of money. Should I be worried?


No.

Given your name, I should think you'd see it coming first.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

Mr Forsaken
Doomheim
#200 - 2012-08-09 16:43:03 UTC
Suggested Solution:

Make it so drones/sentries/fighters/fighterbombers do not auto engage enemies.

Not that I would like that.. but whatever makes ccp happy and prevents afk carriers or whatever.