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Missions & Complexes

 
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Regarding AFK Complex Farming

First post First post
Author
coolzero
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2012-08-09 12:30:05 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
coolzero wrote:
because you cant....... once the site has been done you will have to move to the next...you can only do that if a you use a bot(not allowed) or b are alive but just also doing some stuff in the house.

that drones do things this way is then CCP fault...i dont see my guns/missles switch target on their own.


The difference is that that is not how this particular complex works. It continuously spawns NPCs. It's a static, it doesn't despawn.



is this since this patch or something...anyway this should be a mistake made by ccp doing this complex that way... change the machanic not making it flag your account for afk doing it....to many things in this game you can do afk
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#42 - 2012-08-09 12:31:08 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
So let me get this straight:

1. CCP designed the plexes, their systems and mechanics.
2. CCP designed sentry drones, passive tanks, and other game mechanics.
3. Players make use of these mechanics, and get punitive action taken against them if they do it too well?

What kind of sense does that make?

When you (CCP) were designing plexes, did it not occur to you that this might happen?
When you (CCP) were designing drones, did it not occur to you that with their automatic AI this might happen?
When you (CCP) designed the passive tank, did it not occur to you that this might happen also?

And both plexes and drones have been in the game for how long?

My gut reaction to this is that it is complete bullc**p. I mean no offense, but as long as the player isn't using macros, bots or third party programs, they are making use of game mechanics and nothing else. If game mechanics are the problem, it is YOUR (CCP) problem, not the player's. If anyone should be punished, it should be the individual(s) responsible for designing these systems.


Mistakes happen in development. Developers have to correct them. Sometimes, the mistakes are abused and players should be policed as to not abuse those mistakes as they are not intended to be there in the first place.

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

Octoven
Noir Holdings
#43 - 2012-08-09 12:31:47 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Octoven wrote:
As I stated on the general forums topic on this subject, it seems pretty inappropriate and immature on sreegs part to make a news article about this when it is hardly an automated action. I can sit there and let the sentries do the same damn thing and I will be flagged because I am at my computer or not??

Bot mining is one thing and using an automated program is as well, but your drones only kill so much and then you have to warp to the next room, you dont continue to constantly generate money. It is a fixed amount and once it has been completed you just sit there waiting for someone to gank you or you come back.

He isn't talking about missions with rooms or people going AFK.

He is directly speaking too a certain type of Cosmos Complex where players are warping their ship in with an AFK Tank dropping 5 Sentries then putting remote reps on them then leaving their computers downtime to downtime.

At least with Mining you have to empty stuff or warp back to the station. Missions you have to pick up a new mission or change rooms. This is 100% 24 hour AFK.



Your point is valid; however, if they enforce that penalty on AFKing a complex then they must do the same with any other form of AFK actions which is just too much ******* monitoring IMHO they need to focus more on third party programs and fixing their own mechanics instead of saying, "we call party foul, we cant change ti yet but you arent allowed to use it till we do."
Alara IonStorm
#44 - 2012-08-09 12:33:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
coolzero wrote:

it does now at list in a limited way..... mack have 31000m3 ore hold.....this will still take some time to fill while you can go afk while ice mining.

CCP sanctioned AFKness with a CCP set maximum time limit. This is 24 hours, CCP doesn't want 24 hours nor in this way so they are saying you can't do it until they find a solution.

This particular form of AFK play has been declared an exploit. If you have feeling on other CCP sanctioned AFK activities it has nothing to do with this declared exploit.
Octoven wrote:

Your point is valid; however, if they enforce that penalty on AFKing a complex then they must do the same with any other form of AFK actions which is just too much ******* monitoring IMHO they need to focus more on third party programs and fixing their own mechanics instead of saying, "we call party foul, we cant change ti yet but you arent allowed to use it till we do."

No they don't. All they need to moniter is a specific tactic that is used to keep the sentry drones undamaged in only a few of static complex's.

Nothing else is needed for this particular exploit.

As for calling foul but saying we can't fix it yet, that is the same for all exploits. The Wormhole neg tracking, POS Bowling, Ect.
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#45 - 2012-08-09 12:33:29 UTC
Octoven wrote:
Your point is valid; however, if they enforce that penalty on AFKing a complex then they must do the same with any other form of AFK actions


Says who? You're talking about two totally different things here.

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

TheSkeptic
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2012-08-09 12:41:09 UTC
Anslo wrote:
I left my last MMO when the company started dictating how players can and cannot play the god damn game they paid for.


They aren't stopping you from playing the game, it's stopping you from NOT playing the game but getting the benefits associated with playing the game.

...

Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#47 - 2012-08-09 12:41:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Jame Jarl Retief
Richard Desturned wrote:
Mistakes happen in development. Developers have to correct them. Sometimes, the mistakes are abused and players should be policed as to not abuse those mistakes as they are not intended to be there in the first place.


They should have reverted the change, or disabled plexes until it was fixed. NOT punished players for THEIR OWN mistake.

I'm sorry, but if they make a mistake, that is not a player's fault. If a player is a drone boat user, playing the game the way you designed it (arguably another mistake, it's just so old that it became the norm), the player should not be threatened or punished for it. Fix it, disable it, but don't treat a player as a criminal for playing the game you designed.

Especially when some of these mechanics (drones and AFKing in missions) has been going on for YEARS and you did nothing to deal with it, despite these same drone users (myself included) begging you for YEARS to look at drones.

EDIT: And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying keep the system as is. I just want to see some accountability for making decisions that are not well thought-out, and for not fixing game mechanics that have existed for years and years and years.

I'll be honest here - you guys have treated drone users as red-headed stepchildren for a very, very long time. There's very few things drone boats are good at still. One of them is aggroing an entire room in an L4 and going AFK while drones mop up. That is not much different from AFKing in a plex with constant spawns. This mechanic existed for a very long time. You've completely and utterly ignored it, along with the drones. I strongly urge you to consider this your wake up call and take a long hard look at drones and drone boats (especially in light of ship rebalancing going on now). It's time.
Mattadore
Doomheim
#48 - 2012-08-09 12:44:06 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD TYPE40
Why doesn't CCP just change the ******* mission then instead of threatening players? *snip*


Personal attacks against staff or players is not allowed, please refrain from doing so again.



Personal attack removed - ISD Type40.
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#49 - 2012-08-09 12:49:33 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
They should have reverted the change, or disabled plexes until it was fixed. NOT punished players for THEIR OWN mistake.

I'm sorry, but if they make a mistake, that is not a player's fault. If a player is a drone boat user, playing the game the way you designed it (arguably another mistake, it's just so old that it became the norm), the player should not be threatened or punished for it. Fix it, disable it, but don't treat a player as a criminal for playing the game you designed.

Especially when some of these mechanics (drones and AFKing in missions) has been going on for YEARS and you did nothing to deal with it, despite these same drone users (myself included) begging you for YEARS to look at drones.


they punished the faction five for a mistake on CCP's own part

why should people who are essentially botting without a macro be any different?

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

Sarik Olecar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2012-08-09 12:53:08 UTC
For once I agree with Richard. I used to run these complexes out near Dodixie when I thought 10M ISK was a fortune. If someone is literally just sitting there all day erry day popping rats with sentries then yeah, CCP should put the kibosh to it.

Its like staying in one belt and having your drones pop the rats, except their are almost 50mil worth continuously spawning every hour...

Hows my posting? Call 1-800-747-7633 to leave feedback.

Dregol
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2012-08-09 12:57:11 UTC
Sarik Olecar wrote:
For once I agree with Richard. I used to run these complexes out near Dodixie when I thought 10M ISK was a fortune. If someone is literally just sitting there all day erry day popping rats with sentries then yeah, CCP should put the kibosh to it.

Its like staying in one belt and having your drones pop the rats, except their are almost 50mil worth continuously spawning every hour...


Why battleships spawn in highsec in the first place is beyond me.
Anslo
Scope Works
#52 - 2012-08-09 13:04:15 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Octoven wrote:
Your point is valid; however, if they enforce that penalty on AFKing a complex then they must do the same with any other form of AFK actions


Says who? You're talking about two totally different things here.


No, you're wrong. AFK mining, AFK plexing, AFK missioning, AFK god damn ******* industry then should be policed as it makes isk while afk. Even if tending to the ship to empty ore or change drones or get new ones that popped, it's still an afk action while making isk. So no, you're wrong. Goon.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#53 - 2012-08-09 13:09:08 UTC
Anslo wrote:
No, you're wrong. AFK mining, AFK plexing, AFK missioning, AFK god damn ******* industry then should be policed as it makes isk while afk. Even if tending to the ship to empty ore or change drones or get new ones that popped, it's still an afk action while making isk. So no, you're wrong. Goon.


there is a huge difference between AFKing crap that you have to attend to more than "literally once a day" and AFKing crap that you have to attend to literally once a day

fly away strawman

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

Alara IonStorm
#54 - 2012-08-09 13:10:08 UTC
Anslo wrote:

No, you're wrong. AFK mining, AFK plexing, AFK missioning, AFK god damn ******* industry then should be policed as it makes isk while afk. Even if tending to the ship to empty ore or change drones or get new ones that popped, it's still an afk action while making isk. So no, you're wrong. Goon.

No it should not.

Those activities are CCP sanctioned AFK play with a CCP set maximum time limit. This type of AFK activity is not sactioned and therefor an exploit.

This particular form of AFK play has been declared an exploit. If you have feeling on other CCP sanctioned AFK activities it has nothing to do with this particular declared exploit.
Anslo
Scope Works
#55 - 2012-08-09 13:11:56 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Anslo wrote:
No, you're wrong. AFK mining, AFK plexing, AFK missioning, AFK god damn ******* industry then should be policed as it makes isk while afk. Even if tending to the ship to empty ore or change drones or get new ones that popped, it's still an afk action while making isk. So no, you're wrong. Goon.


there is a huge difference between AFKing crap that you have to attend to more than "literally once a day" and AFKing crap that you have to attend to literally once a day

fly away strawman


In the end, it's still AFKing. Doesn't matter.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Dregol
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2012-08-09 13:12:02 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Octoven wrote:
Your point is valid; however, if they enforce that penalty on AFKing a complex then they must do the same with any other form of AFK actions


Says who? You're talking about two totally different things here.


No, you're wrong. AFK mining, AFK plexing, AFK missioning, AFK god damn ******* industry then should be policed as it makes isk while afk. Even if tending to the ship to empty ore or change drones or get new ones that popped, it's still an afk action while making isk. So no, you're wrong. Goon.


Wrong.

If you'd take the time to read this thread, you'd realize that there was a broken complex whereby people could AFK and have drones kill respawns 23/7. This is /not/ working as intended. AFKing through something that isn't respawning (regular complexes) is fine. What CCP is addressing is a mechanic whereby you can do nothing for hours on end and continue to make isk.

My point from earlier still stands: isk should not be as easy to make as it is in high sec. I'm glad CCP is actively fixing bugs/broken mechanics, but there are mechanics far more broken than this.
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#57 - 2012-08-09 13:23:00 UTC
Dregol wrote:
Anslo wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Octoven wrote:
Your point is valid; however, if they enforce that penalty on AFKing a complex then they must do the same with any other form of AFK actions


Says who? You're talking about two totally different things here.


No, you're wrong. AFK mining, AFK plexing, AFK missioning, AFK god damn ******* industry then should be policed as it makes isk while afk. Even if tending to the ship to empty ore or change drones or get new ones that popped, it's still an afk action while making isk. So no, you're wrong. Goon.


Wrong.

If you'd take the time to read this thread, you'd realize that there was a broken complex whereby people could AFK and have drones kill respawns 23/7. This is /not/ working as intended. AFKing through something that isn't respawning (regular complexes) is fine. What CCP is addressing is a mechanic whereby you can do nothing for hours on end and continue to make isk.

My point from earlier still stands: isk should not be as easy to make as it is in high sec. I'm glad CCP is actively fixing bugs/broken mechanics, but there are mechanics far more broken than this.


I'm merely going to quote this. It's not going to please everyone and certainly not going to please those who were making isk while going about their lives doing things other than playing EVE actively but at the end of the day we're only referring to situations in THIS PARTICULAR CASE where you could in theory generate isk 24 hours a day without ever touching your computer. This does not apply to every situation you might perhaps maybe possibly use sentry drones in and nobody's going to ban your accounts because you went to get a cup of coffee.

There were however cases where this was being abused and so we're stating publically that abusing it is wrong and from this point forward the automated systems will handle it.

Protip for the future: if your computer is logged in 24 (or way more than a person can) hours a day making money in a way that is meant to be active and you're not in front of it you're probably doing something wrong

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012

mkint
#58 - 2012-08-09 13:28:58 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Dregol wrote:
Anslo wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Octoven wrote:
Your point is valid; however, if they enforce that penalty on AFKing a complex then they must do the same with any other form of AFK actions


Says who? You're talking about two totally different things here.


No, you're wrong. AFK mining, AFK plexing, AFK missioning, AFK god damn ******* industry then should be policed as it makes isk while afk. Even if tending to the ship to empty ore or change drones or get new ones that popped, it's still an afk action while making isk. So no, you're wrong. Goon.


Wrong.

If you'd take the time to read this thread, you'd realize that there was a broken complex whereby people could AFK and have drones kill respawns 23/7. This is /not/ working as intended. AFKing through something that isn't respawning (regular complexes) is fine. What CCP is addressing is a mechanic whereby you can do nothing for hours on end and continue to make isk.

My point from earlier still stands: isk should not be as easy to make as it is in high sec. I'm glad CCP is actively fixing bugs/broken mechanics, but there are mechanics far more broken than this.


I'm merely going to quote this. It's not going to please everyone and certainly not going to please those who were making isk while going about their lives doing things other than playing EVE actively but at the end of the day we're only referring to situations in THIS PARTICULAR CASE where you could in theory generate isk 24 hours a day without ever touching your computer. This does not apply to every situation you might perhaps maybe possibly use sentry drones in and nobody's going to ban your accounts because you went to get a cup of coffee.

There were however cases where this was being abused and so we're stating publically that abusing it is wrong and from this point forward the automated systems will handle it.

Protip for the future: if your computer is logged in 24 (or way more than a person can) hours a day making money in a way that is meant to be active and you're not in front of it you're probably doing something wrong

Probably should have mentioned that there's a bugged complex in the news post. I was all like "I wonder if afk missioning is on the chopping block next, or rookies mining in industrials, or etc." It sounds like I'm not the only one who was confused by it.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

Darth Skorpius
352 Industries
#59 - 2012-08-09 13:29:08 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
There were however cases where this was being abused and so we're stating publically that abusing it is wrong and from this point forward the automated systems will handle it.

Protip for the future: if your computer is logged in 24 (or way more than a person can) hours a day making money in a way that is meant to be active and you're not in front of it you're probably doing something wrong


What about afk mining in an industrial (hauler)? Is that still going to be allowed?
Zwo Zateki
Doomheim
#60 - 2012-08-09 13:30:08 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Zwo Zateki wrote:
WTF seriously?

Drones were designed to switch targets automatically. I reckon the difference between AFK farming and legitimate plexing is whether you are staring at nebulae or not.

Bullshit.


I'm fairly sure that the game designers didn't intend for these two particular things (complexes that continuously spawn rats in a given room + aggressive drones) to work together in such a way that it allows completely and utterly AFK ISK farming.

Then FIX it. Set time limit for drone aggressive mode. But do not threaten players. This is the SANDBOX ffs.

http://cvmkr.com/R4JG