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New dev blog: Capital ship balancing

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David Carel
SWAT Team Sales Consultants
#201 - 2011-10-10 18:12:06 UTC  |  Edited by: David Carel
Tokino Kaalakiota wrote:
As a previous/current owner of MULTIPLE personal supercaps, I would encourage you to take your own advice, and get a clue before posting.

Challenge accepted, enjoy the deconstruction of your post.

Quote:
I am not referring to "welpfleet"
Earlier:
"while smart individuals can make use of existing tactics to counter supercap blobs"

So wait, Welpfleet is not an existing tactic against supercap blobs? I guess our definitions of tactic differ.

Quote:
I am quite aware that your alliance currently (appears to) lack the ability to deploy any sort of supercap force.

IDC about "our lack of ability to deploy supers", this is about subcaps countering supercaps.

Quote:
Welpfleet is no counter; it's just a way for goons to leverage their numbers majority in cheap ships to apply dps.

It's a pretty good counter as it severely impedes supers by neuting their cap off and thus shutting down their hardeners, allowing them to be killed pretty quickly. Even with passive hardeners, they can't jump until they have restored cap to 70%.

Quote:
If you look at some of the tactics RnK have used in the past to destroy supercarrier/carrier fleets in the past you'd maybe understand what I'm saying. (They beat a FA/WIdawt supercarrier/carrier gang that more than outnumbered them in supercarriers/carriers alone, killing 1 SC and several carriers, without ANY caps/scaps of their own.)


http://rooksandkings.com/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=25860 has been the only SC kill on FA or WIdot by RnK I could find on their killboard. Now, let's see what we've got there:
60-70 BS shooting 6 supers, 2 dreads, 10 carriers. Nothing more than a variation of "dish out enough DPS to kill them in 15 minutes"
Hm, where's FA? No FA on related kills and no FA super has died by RnK hands either... I'm puzzled.
Oh wait, there's no advantage in numbers of the capital fielding side. Sure nice memory you've got there. Or nice naive mind, believing everything people tell you.

Yeah, I guess a person owning SEVERAL PERSONAL SUPERCAPS should have more of a clue. Unlike common folks like me who don't want to live in a space tomb, right?

(CCP, that quote limit/BBCode could not be parsed thingy is awful. Also, your forums ate my first draft :()
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#202 - 2011-10-10 18:12:33 UTC
Two step wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
I am vaugely suspicious that dreads will still have any role with this change. Their dps is still nothing impressive and they're made of paper compared to supercap fleets: their sole use is sieging pos (which SC's can't touch). They're the wrong answer for a hub or a station, and I think that's a mistake. Their role now is pretty much glass cannons, but they're not damaging enough to fill that role well.


They still have a role in w-space, where life is good because there are no supers...


There are blob alliance there too, like yours, but apart from that you're right. W-space is where it's it, atm. Anyone who want smaller scale PvP and the 'danger' of old EVE should go live in w-space.

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Walextheone
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#203 - 2011-10-10 18:13:25 UTC
Firstly. Dedicated resources on ship balancing is super. Can't understand why CCP haven't done this in a structure way before. It's a competitive game and doing changes on the most important ingredient: the ships, is cruical.

Love the aggresion timer fix and hope that Dreads will get a better tracking.
PAGAN585
The Dark Resistance
#204 - 2011-10-10 18:13:47 UTC
now that my dread has no drones i guess it will be even more useless for doing anything other than shooting a structure. well as long as that structure doesn't start moving cause then you just screwed.

how about you do something that makes playing more fun rather then screwing with **** that never gets used.

or how about you make it so i can warp cloaked in my black ops. that bastard has collected more dust then the dread.
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#205 - 2011-10-10 18:13:56 UTC
Richard de'Astley wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
If you enjoyed these changes and things happening to spaceships IN SPACE I guerantee you'll love the rest of the stuff we have lined up for winter Big smile

Keep an eye out for the blogs.

Aren't you the one who wanted more microtransactions in the game? Can we get someone more qualified to tell us what we're likely to enjoy?


He's also the one that got major angry at players when criticised in the alliance tournament section, during AT. So he felt like raging and insulting the playerbase.

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Goodtime Girl
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#206 - 2011-10-10 18:15:39 UTC
Again CCP and the Goonie Devs act like a bunch of retards.

Maybe if the Goonies had built more Supers they wouldn't have cried
and got such a stupid change.

So CCP you fools why should some now save and train for a super when a
carrier is now 10x better for 20x less.

Utter stupid.
Kenerian
Tri-gun
#207 - 2011-10-10 18:15:41 UTC
I dont usually Voice myself in the forums but.....


I don't think The Sig should be increased on Fighters... They are already easy enough to kill... (I was always under the impression that fighters were fast and nimble, not the size/sig of a BS/drake)


However for fighter bombers it makes More sense. (As there are so many plus the insane dps they put out on larger ships)


I would also like to Note that the reduced time in Siege for Dreads is long overdue and it will be great to see them as a viable class of ships in eve once more.


Not to Mention Lord Maldoror must be really happy with the new log off mechanics.


It will be nice to see that Supers/Titans will not be as over powered, but still worth having.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#208 - 2011-10-10 18:15:56 UTC
soundwave made a dumb once but is a whole lot better than the weeeeee incarna crowd and actually gets the spaceship part of eve

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#209 - 2011-10-10 18:17:01 UTC
my thoughts, 400mm res on fighters maybe a bit extreme. Tone it back to 350

Next to all the whiners about normal carriers

10 Ogre II's with a republic fleet target painter is a very very mean thing.

Other thoughts

people in rapiers and huggins with their massive target painter bonus will now have a purpose in capital fights, along with that minmatar ewar frig. Despite the huge change in scan resolution changes, there are modules that help negate this.

The changes here make it so you just can't have capitals in a fleet fight. YOU WILL have to have sub cap support, with webs painters, ewar.

Yay for dread buff.

Normal carrier pilots rejoice as those super cap pilots are going to have to rely on you to save their asses now with your massive ammounts of ewar drones and normal drones.


Final thought, normal carriers should have a bonus that reduces the sig of fighters.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.
Arkady Sadik
Gradient
Electus Matari
#210 - 2011-10-10 18:17:13 UTC
xxxak wrote:
[b]This nerf = Win Subcap battle, Kill all supers on the field.

So with this nerf, supers can no longer defend themselves from subcaps, and are committed for 23 hours once they cyno in.
You know, you could, like, have your support fleet kill off the hostile tackle.

I know, fancy idea.
cpu939
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#211 - 2011-10-10 18:17:20 UTC
simple question ccp how are you removing the drones and extra fighters/fighter bombers
Bring Stabity
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#212 - 2011-10-10 18:17:41 UTC
Kenerian wrote:
I dont usually Voice myself in the forums but.....


I don't think The Sig should be increased on Fighters... They are already easy enough to kill... (I was always under the impression that fighters were fast and nimble, not the size/sig of a BS/drake)


However for fighter bombers it makes More sense. (As there are so many plus the insane dps they put out on larger ships)


I would also like to Note that the reduced time in Siege for Dreads is long overdue and it will be great to see them as a viable class of ships in eve once more.


Not to Mention Lord Maldoror must be really happy with the new log off mechanics.


It will be nice to see that Supers/Titans will not be as over powered, but still worth having.


Fighters have the ehp of a cruiser/battlecruiser, and those are anything but nimble?
Turrican 2
Temporary Assignment
#213 - 2011-10-10 18:18:19 UTC
So there i have this "Super Carrier", that can't even carry the same things as a carrier anymore after the patch...

In this light i have a few questions to CCP:
-Why was it called Super Carrier again? Will it be renamed to mothership now?

-Why can a "Super Carrier" not fit mining drones in the drone bay after the patch? Was it able to kill subcaps with mining drones?

-How about logged off "Super Carriers"? When they log on after the patch, will they be stuck in space? Or how can they get rid of the useless drones?
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#214 - 2011-10-10 18:18:47 UTC
Sooo, I guess mineral prices will go up?

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Iohet Nolafew
Perkone
Caldari State
#215 - 2011-10-10 18:19:03 UTC
ToXicPaIN wrote:
farraguat wrote:
completely ******* supercarriers in the ass. Only using fighters and fighter-bombers thats ******* ********

Kel'taith wrote:
So a single dic could kill a SC now if it had enough ammo? This doesn't strike me as balanced. SC's should have some degree of defense against sub caps. It isn't often that enemy fleets field capitals or you get a titan tackled, even with metagaming. Essentially every SC pilot now has a ship that is only good for reinforcing structures. Just what I wanted to spend billions of isk on.

I agree that they are too powerful as it stands but reducing drone bays, nerfing fighters(which already suck), and removing the ability to field other drones at the same time is too much. Perhaps you should consider implementing a single nerf at a time and see how that goes.


Yes ... SCs now are only to shoot in iHubs / TCU / Stations

so no more POS Shooting or other things ... and a titan has no chance to kill a single DIC/HIC that he tackled

why ?? we have no more Medium / Heavy / Sentry Drones left

This REALY SUCKS !!!

GREAT WORK F*** CCP


Every ship has a role. There is no reason for a supercap to not have a role.

Bring a support fleet.
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#216 - 2011-10-10 18:19:18 UTC
Arrow
Akara Ito wrote:
Btw how about keeping a Dronebay on dreads and just give them -125 bandwith while in Siege ?




Actually this is a better idea, this will allow dread to have some sort of defense against subs while out of siege mode.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.
Aversun
Systems Federation
#217 - 2011-10-10 18:20:21 UTC
cpu939 wrote:
simple question ccp how are you removing the drones and extra fighters/fighter bombers


cutting torches and plasma welders? :)
CynoNet Two
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#218 - 2011-10-10 18:20:21 UTC
xxxak wrote:
This nerf = Win Subcap battle, Kill all supers on the field.

Kthxbai. No way a sane super pilot will commit now unless they are 150% sure that they have a winning fleet. EVE is dead.


Can you explain (using diagrams if required) how you achieved the level of cognative dissonance needed to equate "my ship is less powerful without a support fleet" with "EVE is dead"?
Mareck001
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#219 - 2011-10-10 18:21:17 UTC
I agree with all the changes here but the fighter nerf. On one hand you do a good job with Supercarrier and Titan balancing. Then you take away the the only reason to train a carrier..
There is no reason to do anything to fighters, they're already pretty balanced. Carriers in general barely see direct combat, except to triage.
This game just became Subcaps Online
Just Another Toon
Doomheim
#220 - 2011-10-10 18:23:00 UTC
some decent changes there CCP.

However one serious consideration MUST be looked at. Supers and Titans in low sec, its just not right. Remove offensive capabilities in low sec altogether. This mass SC/Titan blobbing by failed 0.0 alliances in Low sec is killing it...big time...

Please consider low sec. as well as 0.0.....pretty please...low sec is getting better for pvp, well it was until this happens...