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Warfare & Tactics

 
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Can FC's be friendly?

Author
StoneCold
Unidentified Murderers and Young Hack Offenders
PopeHat
#41 - 2012-07-03 08:01:38 UTC  |  Edited by: StoneCold
tl:dr

Imo a FC with the "aura of rage" is a good fc.
(Most or at least some) People will focus their thing between the ears towards whats going on just for not getting called out in "public". Also the learning effect is better (i thank every beeing in eve that i never got raged by shadoo - though it was fun by a non-targeted-by-rage-perspecitve).

Also:
If a gang gets melted there are (gang -fc -scouts(maybe)) = ppl raging at (fc + scouts (maybe)).
Even if it´s only a videogame (lol, someone still claiming that?) there´s a HUGE weight on the FC shoulders.

EDIT:
and ofc raging fcs can be very entertaining (and i m pretty sure shadoo used this also for sidekicks and comedy to keep peeps entertained while our pods slowly turned blue).
Luba Cibre
Global Song Setup
#42 - 2012-07-03 08:05:31 UTC
StoneCold wrote:
Also the learning effect is better (i thank every beeing in eve that i never got raged by shadoo - though it was fun by a non-targeted-by-rage-perspecitve).

Shadoo is one of the most chill FCs that i've flown with.
You (the whole fleet) has to do really stupid things, to get him raging like in the famous armor hac recording.

"Nothing essential happens in the absence of noise." 

StoneCold
Unidentified Murderers and Young Hack Offenders
PopeHat
#43 - 2012-07-03 08:19:44 UTC
My Shadoo-experience lies a couple years back. Maybe he turned old :P.
Alhena Arvo
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2012-07-03 14:11:22 UTC
Well.. FC should be a good commander. It's first. Everything else - is secondary importance. Anyway, we all know that all make mistakes, commanders and pilots. In my opinion, only FC who can control their emotions in any situation can be really great FC.
Hatsumi Kobayashi
Perkone
Caldari State
#45 - 2012-07-03 14:57:50 UTC
Let me tell you about how friendly Elise Randolph is. Despite being one of the prime cat herders in PL for nearly 2 years I'm pretty sure he's only ever not been nice once. And it took a major fuckup to anger him, and it lasted it whole 2-3 minutes after which he apologized.

No sig.

Noisrevbus
#46 - 2012-07-03 16:10:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Noisrevbus
Hi,

I usually stick to the Ships & Modules forum but this thread peaked my interest. It brought up something we recently discussed over there regarding ships in fleets. I'd like to give you another perspective on the whole thing:

I belive many of the FC's plights appear as a result of the organisation scale-up tools and how powerful they are in EVE. It doesn't matter wether you run a 10-man gang or a 100-man gang, many of them still rely on a single FC doing everything by himself. In the same way many corporations are run similarily. That is done because it can be done. The tools the game provide are simply so powerful that we don't run into the inevitable speed bumps early enough. Most fleets still follow the same structure of primaries regardless of size.

It's not until you hit the modern coalition scales that you begin to see delegation such as "subcap liutenant", defensive FC's relaying "how we are holding up", "anchors" or "bomber wings" appear, and then only among the best and brightest. Even they tend to fall back on social hierarchy rather than organised hierarchy at times, such when an FC is killed: few groups seem to have seconds set or maintained and it usually reverts back to a small group of senior members sorting it out per stature or whoever yell the loudest after a short stint of confusion.

The tools are afterall there. Coms being cluttered or people yelling "battlecoms" is usually just an example of poor organisation when you have features like talk-power and multiple channel seeds on coms. It's a question of the FC not operating with the right tools as the alliance lack the necessary organisation, being allowed to grow quite uncontrollable, and his fleet not being dimensioned for it. It's insanely uncommon to see well organised corporations and fleets.

Leading seasoned players is obviously easier than inexperienced players, but at the end of the day there are plenty of things you can do that save you from the plights of cluttering and having to be a dong.
Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2012-07-04 22:33:14 UTC
Quote:
people yelling "battlecoms"


But "battlecoms" sounds so cool. Sad
Mrr Woodcock
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2012-07-05 02:21:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Mrr Woodcock
Almost all the good FC's I have had the privilege of flying with have had a certain presents about them. Friendly for the most part, but all have the potential of getting annoyed at times.

Things about most is, they are focused, calculating, and fast effective thinkers. One I remember fondly was a guy called Plague
black, (I'm unfortunately fighting against him, but flown in many many of his fleets) This guy had a certain mastery. He could pick apart much larger fleets on a regular basis. I miss em. Never really saw the guy angry, even once.

The answer to your question IMO is Yes! The best ones are.
Davion Falcon
Those Once Loyal
#49 - 2012-07-05 02:45:30 UTC
eddie valvetino wrote:

4. Thinking for yourself (grunts are not meant to do this)


The root of the problem right here.

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise. Never forgotten, never forgiven.

GavinGoodrich
Perkone
Caldari State
#50 - 2012-07-05 05:29:30 UTC
We love you ******* to death but our train of thought goes out the window most of the time when a random guy comes on going "HEY GUYS what are we in, where are we" when 9 times out of 10 I've got that typed out in the advert/MOTD for them to READ, but people keep treating it like a party instead. I love like 99% of the dudes I fly with, but jesus christ you can't repeat **** like that 30+ times every night Oops

Haaaaaalp my head's on fire

Shang Fei
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2012-07-05 07:28:22 UTC
Nope :D
XNordak BalremX
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#52 - 2012-07-05 11:47:40 UTC

Funny ****
Archdaimon
Merchants of the Golden Goose
#53 - 2012-07-05 12:12:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Archdaimon
*Noob theory crafting here, bullshit might be abundant.*


I think people should use more officers and sergents, decentralizing a part of the FC's portfolio.

Sergants take care of fits are correct, have private comms with their squad, on whisper channel with FC etc.

Officers prepare intel, organize the sergents, prep the fleet etc.

Ofcourse good fc's burnout if they have to:

assemble fleet
check fleet
order fleet
consider tactical issues
consider strategic issues
etc.

No real life military commander has direct control of each trooper. If you guys have a good FC, make sure to have people to help out where they can.

Let me also note, that from irl experience, good leaders are often competent but perfectionists. they tend to want to control every asepct, not knowing how fast they will burnout themselves. Often it is up to a group of managers to assure that the leader does not have too many tasks.

Create FC groups, assign sub-commanders, fleet checkers, scout groups, intel groups what not and I think the good FC's might not burn out so fast. Same applies to CEO's.
"Playing" large corps in EVE is such a job that real management issues and considerations should be used. Do it LEAN!

Wormholes have the best accoustics. It's known. - Sing it for me -

Pinky Feldman
Perkone
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-07-05 12:38:11 UTC
Noisrevbus wrote:
Hi,

I usually stick to the Ships & Modules forum but this thread peaked my interest. It brought up something we recently discussed over there regarding ships in fleets. I'd like to give you another perspective on the whole thing:

I belive many of the FC's plights appear as a result of the organisation scale-up tools and how powerful they are in EVE. It doesn't matter wether you run a 10-man gang or a 100-man gang, many of them still rely on a single FC doing everything by himself. In the same way many corporations are run similarily. That is done because it can be done. The tools the game provide are simply so powerful that we don't run into the inevitable speed bumps early enough. Most fleets still follow the same structure of primaries regardless of size.

It's not until you hit the modern coalition scales that you begin to see delegation such as "subcap liutenant", defensive FC's relaying "how we are holding up", "anchors" or "bomber wings" appear, and then only among the best and brightest. Even they tend to fall back on social hierarchy rather than organised hierarchy at times, such when an FC is killed: few groups seem to have seconds set or maintained and it usually reverts back to a small group of senior members sorting it out per stature or whoever yell the loudest after a short stint of confusion.

The tools are afterall there. Coms being cluttered or people yelling "battlecoms" is usually just an example of poor organisation when you have features like talk-power and multiple channel seeds on coms. It's a question of the FC not operating with the right tools as the alliance lack the necessary organisation, being allowed to grow quite uncontrollable, and his fleet not being dimensioned for it. It's insanely uncommon to see well organised corporations and fleets.

Leading seasoned players is obviously easier than inexperienced players, but at the end of the day there are plenty of things you can do that save you from the plights of cluttering and having to be a dong.


Battlecomms are for tryhard nerds that take the game way too seriously. In my experience, fleets that seem poorly organized also lack the appropriate pony soundboards.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2012-07-05 13:08:01 UTC
i know quite some good and friendly FC's. One of them is PrimeKiller. Funny british person. I very recommend him.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

eddie valvetino
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#56 - 2012-07-05 13:19:44 UTC
GavinGoodrich wrote:
We love you ******* to death but our train of thought goes out the window most of the time when a random guy comes on going "HEY GUYS what are we in, where are we" when 9 times out of 10 I've got that typed out in the advert/MOTD for them to READ, but people keep treating it like a party instead. I love like 99% of the dudes I fly with, but jesus christ you can't repeat **** like that 30+ times every night Oops


Hey Gavin

what you said meight, spot on...

Back in Bi-Polar Bears, ops would be posted, by mail, by fourm and the corp calender... oh and the "intel" channel MOTD. In detail, often with a full breifing on goals, tactics intel and required ships, numbers and fits. Still you can be certain, some guy would pop on, 30 seconds before the op and say "sorry, i'm late.. where are we and what are we in?"

good greif
BolsterBomb
POS Party
Ember Sands
#57 - 2012-07-05 13:26:22 UTC
Also, need to point out there is a difference in FCing militia fleets rather then corp fleets.

I havent met a nice militia FC ever, without some type of raging.

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation

Nav illus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2012-07-06 05:54:20 UTC
In answer ot the OP's question: Go run a fleet. Just grab 10+ corp mates, load'em up for pvp and head for null.
Then, like a masochist, do it again.
And again...
Once you've done that, come on back here and tell us if a good fc should be friendly.

G/L
Jelizza Arlath
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#59 - 2012-07-06 11:03:15 UTC
Leading a group of people on the internet, whether it's EVE or any other MMO is the most unappreciated and thankless roles you can put yourself in.

Years ago when Everquest 1 was pretty much the only MMORPG on the market (except UO of course) a friend of mine, after attempting to lead raids, told me....

"Leading raids is like leading a bunch of ******** children through a mall, and even though they are, presumably, grown up people you constantly have to tell them; Don't go there! Stay near the rest! Where did he go? Everyone together please! Don't touch that! Stop running around!"

And I completely agree with her. I've led some raids, but just like alot of people who have attempted it, I just gave up on it. Being friendly only gets you so far, and when there is alot of strangers involved you learn just how quickly "being nice" will fall short. The result is leading by being formal, strict, jaded, cynical and to those that don't really know you, an *******. I've booted quite alot of people from raids simply because I'm too sick of repeating the obvious to grown ups who should be at least partially educated. If you can't follow simple instructions such as "Let the dedicated puller do the pulling" then you get a boot up your arse and a quick /kick from raid.

These days I limit myself to leading small teams. Either small fleets with friends and corps, or single groups of guildies and friends (in other MMO's). I'm thoroughly fed up with the neverending stream of malfunctioning DNA that not only manages to survive birth, but also seems able to grown arms, legs AND get on the internet.

Then again, maybe I've become too jaded and bitter from years of running PuG's in online games.

Can FC's be friendly? Sure they can... as long as it's a smaller fleet and the people they are leading know their FC. But once you add the stranger-variable into the fleet, the only hope they are left with is being a harsh bastard, or see their fleet whittle away.

Large groups of humans need to be treated like cattle. Patting them on the back doesn't get them moving. Lashing a whip across their backs do.
BobFenner
Black Hole Runners
#60 - 2012-07-06 11:50:55 UTC
[quote=Can FC's be friendly? Sure they can... as long as it's a smaller fleet and the people they are leading know their FC. But once you add the stranger-variable into the fleet, the only hope they are left with is being a harsh bastard, or see their fleet whittle away.

Large groups of humans need to be treated like cattle. Patting them on the back doesn't get them moving. Lashing a whip across their backs do.[/quote]

This pretty much says it all.
My missus thinks of EvE as 'the other woman'. :)