These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Can FC's be friendly?

Author
Katja Faith
Doomheim
#21 - 2012-06-29 21:20:30 UTC
BolsterBomb wrote:

1) Comms clutter
2) PPL jumping when I specifically tell them to hold on gate - cant tell you how irritated this makes me
3) Bad intel


This. If an FC can't control his/her comms, sh!te happens. Been in plenty of fleets where different people called out different orders, INCLUDING "jump jump jump"... FC didn't say crap.

If I don't know someone now, I don't fleet with them. Period.
ScoRpS
Love Death and Robots.
Nocturnal Legion
#22 - 2012-06-30 06:18:39 UTC  |  Edited by: ScoRpS
The opening question is "Can FC's be friendly?"

My answer is yes he or she can be or rather, should be.

It can be argued that a stern and somewhat mean FC can get good results and command great respect and acquire quite a following. However when it goes wrong that FC will take a massive ego hit and will take a long time to come around and confidently try again. That FC will also place blame everywhere except on them selves. It's no wonder they burn out fast. Its a tough act to follow.

The freindly FC can also get great results aswell as some pretty nasty losses. The big difference is the ability to move onto the next situation better mentally able to handle it. Longivity ensues.

A good FC, which is something else and only comes with time, leaves little to chance. They will assess as much as they can and then communicate orders with great effiency. They leave no mistake in explaining what is to happen and what is expected. They will also be more free about discussing what went wrong and how to make it better without being insulting.

So it can be said the real best FC's in game usually come from the friendly camp. If only because they last longer and gain more experience in general at FC'ing.

A point to always remember wether in a gang of 3 or in a gang of 600: This is not Tsun Zu's Art of War it's Eve-Onlineā„¢ It's just a bunch of guys trying to enjoy a video game who shouldn't mind the odd loss here and there in the name of a good fight.

Make it fun!!
Pinky Feldman
Perkone
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-06-30 09:09:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinky Feldman
I remember once I was on a fleet with a friendly FC. He was extremely polite and when people accidently jumped through a gate he didn't curse them out. When people talked at innapropriate times or during fighting he didn't tell them to shut up like most FCs would. If someone couldn't bring an Armor BC sure a Shield Cruiser was fine. When people fell behind or didn't follow warps he didn't leave them behind, he made sure to patiently wait and hold the fleet until they could catch up. Needless to say it was a very positive fleet, except for the fact that it didn't kill anything and died horribly in a fireball, which noone really had fun on and was a completely unorganized mess.

Theres a difference between being friendly and running fun fleets.
Lucy Ferrr
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2012-06-30 14:37:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucy Ferrr
Some FCs have more patience than others, but FC'ing a mid to large sized fleet can be quite the blood-pressure raising experience. Imagine this if you would, you are playing StarCraft or some other RTS, you tell your units to go attack the enemy units. Only half your units actually attack the enemy, well the other half go in the completely wrong direction. You also have two zealots (or marines or zerglings) who had way to much to drink and they are talking over your commands. Yeah that's what FC'ing is like.

Also if you have ever been a substitute teacher for a 1st grade class, FC'ing holds much similarities to that.
Sominus Nexus
Neo Shinra
#25 - 2012-06-30 14:45:19 UTC
Working with a handful of skilled, pilots is about as close as I get, but It's not like being an FC. Everyone more or less knows what to do, and you can take opinions into account "do you guys want to engage?". Those of you that have the PATIENCE to run larger fleets have my utmost respect! We need dedicated FC's, and for members of fleets who's feelings are hurt because the FC called you out on being a lemming, or fitting like a moron Get over it!

TL,DR an FC can be nice up to the point where it hurts his fleet, then he has to do his job.
eddie valvetino
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-06-30 16:52:54 UTC
Couple of points here I like to make comment on.

I think being friendly may well get you respect and it may also stop ppl logging. But in truth I think results are what counts, I few chaps that have made comment know me, pretty well... neither have ever had me balling them out on comms as an FC, but then... neither have ever screwed up. Both however have seen me rip someone a new one. I think i'm right in saying both would also have me FC. Perhaps (though I might be pushing things here) would "trust" me to lead their corp into nearly any type of fight.

and that is results based. of this i'm certain.

Also, on another note.. we are viewing this in the cold light of day. hindsight is always 20/20 and I know for sure I have regretted the way I have spoken to some chaps, after the fact. But in the white heat of battle, as has been mentioned in this thread... things get strange. FCing is hard bloody work.. even when things go well and to plan. When things go south and they do for nearly every FC, damn that is hard work. Combat lasting any more then 20/30 is like doing a days work. FC'd a fight of Gal Mil vs R'n'K couple of years ago, (we lost... or should i say "I" lost). That was some 72 minutes long. Was honestly drained both mentally and emotionally.


Pinky, makes a good point too.

At the end of the day all FCs have their ways and it's all about results, friendly or a fowl mouthed arrogant asshat, if you win... people will fly under you.
Shadow Adanza
Gold Crest Salvage
#27 - 2012-06-30 20:14:49 UTC
There's a time to be nice and there's a time to get on to people for being ******* idiots.
Unfortunately, I sometimes fall in the ******* idiots category.
All in good fun, though.

Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?

RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#28 - 2012-06-30 20:48:10 UTC
I want to add a couple of points also.

Perception/Attitude:
eddie mentioned a 72 minute fight against R'n'K that he 'lost'.
My first thought was, Effing Awesome! 72 minutes of serious PvP against some of the best in the game. Ship loss is way down on the list imo. That had to be gaming at its finest. My point is, players perception will be all over the place, but if you ave a fleet with positive attitude, it goes a long way.

The Fleet makes the FC. He cannot accomplish one goal without them. Would be like saying the pitcher is the only important player, or the quarterback does it all on his own. Every player needs to do his job or the FC cannot succeed.

You can fake ignorance,
but you cannot fake brilliance:
Good FC's have moments of brilliance. Perception, timing, experience, all come together for glorious battles.

....Sometimes it's just not YOUR FC. Sometimes it's the other FC and there is nothing you can do about it.

Last point:
Most FC's want to do good. They know what failed and what worked. If you can do better, then run a fleet. Otherwise support them and be constructive. Otherwise you will find yourself and your corp with 1 LESS FC.

This whole, long thread, is just an indicater of how multi-faceted the job of FC is. Many issues have not even been touched on. Spies, personalities, strangers, RL, etc. Can he be friendly? Calm is more important imo.

Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
#29 - 2012-06-30 22:02:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Vyktor Abyss
Scorps hit it right on the head.

Not all twats that FC are good FCs, and not all 'nice guys' that FC are terrible.

My respect is always with the good FCs, but those FCs who are on some ego trip and forgetting they are getting all emo about some spaceship game most people play to have fun (and not be screamed at) need a slap.

I'm 35 (and many of the games players are 'old farts' too) and if anyone spoke to me the way you hear on comms sometimes in real life they'd get their head kicked in. I don't see why spaceships and internet anonymity should allow these twats an outlet to just be a ****. I pity the people who fly with these morons because they're too afraid or whatever to FC themselves. Personally I reckon more people should just start fleets themselves and see how they go with less pressure on "results" - so long as folks are having fun losses shouldn't be an issue.

I should add most FCs are fine coz they aren't twats unless folks properly deserve it, but some of the FC comms you hear (especially some of those Null wanker FCs in vids) with people on some massive ego trip - Well those guys need a good real world scouse-style kickin' to learn some respect for their fellow human beings.
Dynast
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#30 - 2012-06-30 23:56:32 UTC
To the OP: yes, FCs can be friendly, as long as the pilots in their fleet are competent and willing to work with a friendly FC. If they insist on doing stupid **** or being pests, it becomes a matter of either forcefully correcting their errors or allowing the quality of the fleet to degrade. I think most people would rather not cater to the babies and dimwits, and have only so much time to spend on educating the inexperienced, which results in many FCs getting a bit frustrated and going off.
Muad 'dib
The Nine Nine
#31 - 2012-07-01 01:28:59 UTC
They are under a massive amount of pressure casuing them stress, they want to win for themselves and for their gang for future gangs etc.

Internet Spaceships is a serious busniess and loosing them for other people is not taken lightly.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.

Smabs
State War Academy
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-07-01 03:14:44 UTC
An FC starts out friendly.

But then it starts. At first people will as 'is there a fleet up' when a single incursus comes by a system. Then they will ask where the fleet is when it's been clearly stated in the fleet description. Then they won't have comms or a mic. They will be incapable of reporting intel with numbers and system names. People will bring the wrong ships. People will have horrendous fittings despite there being standardised fleet ships.

After all that the FC will get shouted at for losing a gang.

And then they become insane.
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2012-07-01 10:49:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Cedo Nulli
FC is the leader of the fleet ... hes there to do a very specific job as you as a fleetmember should be too.

He aint there to cuddle you and your "unique snowflake" ego ... You can be all nice untill something goes wrong .. then its plain cold businesstime.

Some people just cant handle taking orders and listening to a commaning tone of voice. The problem aint in the FCs being all mean .. its in you being a pussy and unfit to follow orders without bursting to tears about not being individually asked in a kind fashion.



Just a reminder: Being a **** doesent make you better FC. But sometimes harsh actions are needed to win.
BobFenner
Black Hole Runners
#34 - 2012-07-01 13:48:07 UTC
My first experience of FC'ing was taking a bunch of players who normally did industry and missions out on a lowsec roam. I specified small ships - nothing bigger than cruiser sized and no expensive stuff as it was supposed to be just a learning experience.

I had read up on FC role and had a pre flight check list, the usual stuff - know your ranges, set your orbit range, ammo and drones, paste etc..

So, we had about ten guys, mostly in t1 frigates and me in a cheap fit thorax.

I struggled to stay calm in the ensuing chaos as half my guys didn't have voice comms and the ones who did wouldn't shut up, people jumping gates without being told, or aligning to the wrong gate and we had to wait for them to catch up etc..... It also didn't help that I was also dual boxing with a forward scout.

BUT, even though we all got killed after an hour or so of roaming and getting a few cheap ass kills - It was fun!

I guess my point is that if you stop enjoying being an FC then it's time to stop. It IS only a game after all. Blink
My missus thinks of EvE as 'the other woman'. :)
StonerPhReaK
Herb Men
#35 - 2012-07-01 14:30:47 UTC
Most FC's dont just "play" eve. For them EvE is REAL!.

Outside of FC'ing the same cats that are all OMFG DO NOT BUMP THE TITAN! are pretty chill.

Never take anything to heart. Know that under stress anyone will nerdrage. Most of all remember to have fun, Because it is just a game.

Signatures wer cooler when we couldn't remove them completely.

Almity
In Exile.
#36 - 2012-07-02 00:08:23 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Almity, on the Amarr side is a great FC IMO and extremely friendly to boot.


AWWWWW that's so nice of you!


Dood Maker
Doomheim
#37 - 2012-07-02 12:50:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Dood Maker
Dark Pangolin wrote:
FCs can be friendly if they fly in relatively small fleets (10-15) of people they have been flying with for a while, who know what to do and how to do it. Usually most FCs burn out (I did) after while mostly because if you become known as "the FC" every time you log on all you hear is "fleet?...are you doing a fleet?" and you can;t always dedicate 3 hours to EVE...

Anyway tehre are friendly FCs they just get cranky when they have to repeat themselves over and over on the basics...I only remember losing my temper once though...and I never asked anyone to post in fleet :)


A very good point.

I must add that because you are a friendly FC most want to fly with you and will add you to their friends list allot faster then the idiot that just shouts at them.

I think corp ceo's or senior players in corps need to have a rule that if you in a alliance of FW that before you join a fleet you need to have done a basic Fleet coms and role course that will be given to the newer players. (Myself and a mate got this done to us when we were 3days old and it has for ever helped me)

If I fc im always nice and explain things to people that dont know things and I dont really mind the odd noob questions but when its time to get the party started and you holding on the gate waiting for the others to jump to you and you have a new player jump the gate when you asked him to warp to it only or then ask stupid questions I want to freak out.

Also when you FC and you will get your chance at some point its always good to find out how many new pvp players you have. I say pvp cause some pve players think that they can pvp but when it comes to the fight they useless.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#38 - 2012-07-02 14:51:12 UTC
Bad players who do stupid stuff and lose their ships inevitably blame the FC. Eventually this wears down the FC and the bitterness becomes permanent.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Dervinus
Rusted and Rejuvenated
Triumvirate.
#39 - 2012-07-02 17:43:56 UTC
You guys need to see Elise Randolph in action. Dude is so chill you would think he was in a coma while FCing. Does everything with a calm, nonchalant voice while at the same time always being in absolute control. I guess thats what comes with experience and taking pleasure in actually playing Eve rather than just being an angry bittervet.

o7 toonies

Smegma Cheesedog
Doomheim
#40 - 2012-07-02 20:09:16 UTC
Only the FCs that are worm beyotches IRL like Damar and Gunnyt