These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Fiction

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Capsuleers and Their "Crews"

First post First post
Author
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#81 - 2012-06-07 09:52:04 UTC
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:
You should, they have so much shocking info!


Like, plot holes? General inconsistencies? flawed logic? bad grammar, syntax?

Or worst of all;

A complete lack of EVE Lexicon and / or any attempt at phonological assimilation between the 5 races?

AK

This space for rent.

Qvar Dar'Zanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#82 - 2012-06-07 11:36:15 UTC
AlleyKat wrote:
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:
You should, they have so much shocking info!


Like, plot holes? General inconsistencies? flawed logic? bad grammar, syntax?

Or worst of all;

A complete lack of EVE Lexicon and / or any attempt at phonological assimilation between the 5 races?

AK


Okay, so tell me, which ones are those inconsistences and plot holes? I foresee great "collisions" like the previous guy saying "oh but this is IMPOSSIBLE, nothing in-game hinted that the sleepers could be part of the jove empire!!".
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#83 - 2012-06-07 12:37:11 UTC
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:
Okay, so tell me, which ones are those inconsistencies and plot holes? I foresee great "collisions" like the previous guy saying "oh but this is IMPOSSIBLE, nothing in-game hinted that the sleepers could be part of the Jove empire!!".


Haven't read them to be honest and have no intention to do so, so I was asking a series of questions based upon my fears of what could be contained within the pages of an EVE Novel, written by an organisation to further monetary gain of an existing IP.

Every time this happens, the results are flawed - I would trust a fan novella more, and apologies to anyone who may get offended by that statement, but I ran out of coffee this morning and Seagulls to throw stones at.

AK

This space for rent.

Qvar Dar'Zanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#84 - 2012-06-07 14:06:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Qvar Dar'Zanar
Sigh.

Ok to answer you:

Plot holes - I haven't found anything. Every time I thought I had found one (and since I started hanging around TVTropes I look for them a lot), after thinking for a while my http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FridgeLogic solved the enigma.

General inconsistencies - None, for what we know this far about the lore. Unless you're trying to be one of the above described consistence talibans for who "if it's isn't in-game it isn't real" ofc. But in that case writting a novel wouldn't be possible, would it? The novels and specially Templar One surprised me precisely for how consistent they are with the general eve lore.

Flawed logic - Not that I've noticed.

Bad grammar, syntax - Can't tell you about this because I'm not english native.

A complete lack of EVE Lexicon - You would be surprised, sometimes I got goosebumps with the spaceship comms. Also the books uses all the usual terms common between capsuleers, such as w-space, cyno, and all the like (even NC is mentioned!).

Any attempt at phonological assimilation between the 5 races - I don't understand the question.
Roga Dracor
Federation of Freedom Fighters
VINDICTIVE
#85 - 2012-06-08 02:27:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
He is talking about the general handwave that takes place when you consider the dialectal disparity given in the fiction.. I think..
Our Neocoms automatically translate between the many dialects of New Eden.. Yes, there are MANY.. Technology is the answer, and I would assume that many capsuleers are fluent in several languages, as well, when you consider the resources we have at our disposal..

Though English is generally the "Trade Language" of Eve, there are many languages chosen out of convenience for the individual players.. New Eden would have a similar language that most everyone would know, if they travelled regularly, just as in the real world. Concordia, maybe..

Gallente use French, or some pseudo French descendant.. Likely sounds nothing like modern French, but, why not French, or any other modern dialects progeny? The Ammar could speak a Latin spawned amalgam with Arabic or Japanese? We do hail from a planet called Earth, perhaps this "Earth" had a slightly different history than that which we call home?

Fiction is pure speculation.. It really is as simple as that.. What if?

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.

Mira Robinson
#86 - 2012-06-08 06:35:01 UTC
I was under the impression that Capsuleer-piloted ships had no crew. That due to the connections in the pod, they essentially were the ship, and didn't require anyone else.

If I am wrong, please correct me, as I'm planning some Eve fiction. Thanks.

Earlier today, the Dixon Mining Guild and the Butz Manufacturing Corporation formed a coalition.

It's hard to tell if there is a light at the end of the tunnel for the Dixon-Butz Alliance.

AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#87 - 2012-06-08 09:55:49 UTC
Mira Robinson wrote:
I was under the impression that Capsuleer-piloted ships had no crew. That due to the connections in the pod, they essentially were the ship, and didn't require anyone else.

If I am wrong, please correct me, as I'm planning some Eve fiction. Thanks.


Greatly reduced crew compliments.

Invented by the Jove, as they have few people in their populace and therefore ship losses were impactful.

This space for rent.

Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa
The Perfect Harvesting Experience
#88 - 2012-06-13 08:20:57 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:
AlleyKat wrote:

Where are these people coming from? Who hires them? Why would they be anywhere near an employment office for ship crews? It's got to be eventual death for anyone who signs up for it. Surely there are more jobs available for 'space station janitor' or plan old 'concord regional office administrator 3rd grade' not to mention the enormous amounts of Veldspar that needs loading and unloading at the space docks on stations.

AK


They sign up because they can make more aboard a ship on a short tour than they can the rest of their natural lives at regular salaries.

History has no shortage of people willing to risk life and limb just at the mere possibility of becoming wealthy.

We have to imagine capsuleer payouts to crew as substantial, not to mention insurance policies to the families of deceased crews. There's more than enough money involved for ships to be constantly crewed by willing individuals.



http://community.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=14-07-05
Dr Ted Kaper
Machiavellian Empire
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#89 - 2012-06-14 01:23:03 UTC
I always assumed that there is no crew present on any other ship other than carriers, unless you actually choose to keep people. Reason being: to have any kind of crew on a ship which is inevitably going to be destroyed would be INSANELY expensive. So the only crew are the people which you purchase off the market. Carriers specifically because they have fighters which do have people to pilot them. The other reason i think this way, is that when doing missions our ships are vastly superior to the staffed ships, and the justification for our superior power is the connection between captain and ship. A staffed ship will take longer to react and does not work as fluently as capsuleers. This results in far poorer accuracy, lock time, speed, and tank. So the reason we never see any interaction between a crew is because there is non.
Teinyhr
Ourumur
#90 - 2012-06-14 12:46:19 UTC
Dr Ted Kaper wrote:
I always assumed that there is no crew present on any other ship other than carriers, unless you actually choose to keep people. Reason being: to have any kind of crew on a ship which is inevitably going to be destroyed would be INSANELY expensive. So the only crew are the people which you purchase off the market. Carriers specifically because they have fighters which do have people to pilot them. The other reason i think this way, is that when doing missions our ships are vastly superior to the staffed ships, and the justification for our superior power is the connection between captain and ship. A staffed ship will take longer to react and does not work as fluently as capsuleers. This results in far poorer accuracy, lock time, speed, and tank. So the reason we never see any interaction between a crew is because there is non.



You could just go to evelopedia and search for crew but....
1) You are right, it is expensive. Then again we are insanely rich. The story, "Khadrea" tells us that six million Amamake credits at current exchange rates amounts to 3,600 ISK. So you can hire a lot of people and pay them well (or their families should they die) for what is less than pocket change to capsuleers.

2) Capsule only eliminates bridge crew. You will still need mechanics, engineers, people working on the guns (one chronicle -All these lives are fit to ruin - had a crewman sabotaging the turret loading mechanisms resulting in the ships destruction), monitoring the powerplant (fission/fusion/graviton/antimatter reactors), engine maintenance and so on. Even frigates tend to have one or two crewmen on top of the capsuleer, altough they can be operated just by a capsuleer if needed. The bigger the ship, the more crew it will need. Carriers for example would need extra people to maintain the fighters, and titans would need people to maintain the doomsday weapon, the jump bridge systems and host of other things on such a massive ship.

3) The reason capsuleer ships are superior is because we control the ship alone, and we generally can afford superior quality modules for our ships.
Nikotium
Minmatar Star Scrapers
#91 - 2012-06-14 14:44:44 UTC
if someone wants to imagine that their space ship has a crew, then LET them. if they want to imagine that their pilot talks with the other "normal" pilots, LET them. if they want to imagine that their character actually walks around their ship, LET them. it's NOT up to YOU to decide what people imagine their character do or not. if you want to imagine your character as a non-communicative person, then he or she IS a non-communicative person. stop hampering people from using their imagination. stop yelling at them for having an imagination. do your thing and let them do theirs.

i personally imagine that my pilot "shoots the breeze" with the Concord Toll personnel, that he walks around his ship smoking and drinking Quafe and talking to his crew, ready at a moments notice to get back in his pod and take control of his ship.

but, that doesn't mean i want everyone else to do the same. nor do i care what others imagine what their character do or do not do.

"Ya'll need to cool yo jets! Aint no need fer all that hate."

Dr Ted Kaper
Machiavellian Empire
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#92 - 2012-06-14 15:11:46 UTC
Teinyhr wrote:
Dr Ted Kaper wrote:
I always assumed that there is no crew present on any other ship other than carriers, unless you actually choose to keep people. Reason being: to have any kind of crew on a ship which is inevitably going to be destroyed would be INSANELY expensive. So the only crew are the people which you purchase off the market. Carriers specifically because they have fighters which do have people to pilot them. The other reason i think this way, is that when doing missions our ships are vastly superior to the staffed ships, and the justification for our superior power is the connection between captain and ship. A staffed ship will take longer to react and does not work as fluently as capsuleers. This results in far poorer accuracy, lock time, speed, and tank. So the reason we never see any interaction between a crew is because there is non.



You could just go to evelopedia and search for crew but....
1) You are right, it is expensive. Then again we are insanely rich. The story, "Khadrea" tells us that six million Amamake credits at current exchange rates amounts to 3,600 ISK. So you can hire a lot of people and pay them well (or their families should they die) for what is less than pocket change to capsuleers.

2) Capsule only eliminates bridge crew. You will still need mechanics, engineers, people working on the guns (one chronicle -All these lives are fit to ruin - had a crewman sabotaging the turret loading mechanisms resulting in the ships destruction), monitoring the powerplant (fission/fusion/graviton/antimatter reactors), engine maintenance and so on. Even frigates tend to have one or two crewmen on top of the capsuleer, altough they can be operated just by a capsuleer if needed. The bigger the ship, the more crew it will need. Carriers for example would need extra people to maintain the fighters, and titans would need people to maintain the doomsday weapon, the jump bridge systems and host of other things on such a massive ship.

3) The reason capsuleer ships are superior is because we control the ship alone, and we generally can afford superior quality modules for our ships.

It is also important to consider that 1USD~1784COP... and i never see any money leave my wallet for any kind of crew tax. Then again we also do not pay for food or fuel. Also consider that armor repairers, shield boosters, and hull repairers are all done by nanobots. Plus because this takes place in space, ships never age. The computer and your skills accomadate for all aspects of a ship, hence why you must learn the mechanics of every system on your ship. Note that charisma is not needed for the operation of many systems on ships. System failures do occur: i sometimes find that my armor hardeners have recieved damage after a lot of use.
Teinyhr
Ourumur
#93 - 2012-06-14 15:48:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Teinyhr
In game mechanics =/= lore. I don't understand why people seem to think this, in many other MMO's as well. In-universe, ships have a crew, altough it is not reflected ingame. It's up to you of course to ignore them if you will, don't matter to me none.

Nikotium; If you want to write fan-fiction, or roleplay, then you need to know the world you're writing about. I'm all for imagination, but when you're playing with someone elses universe, well, you should play by the rules and guidelines they have set. Again, you're free to imagine your ship however you like, but I think most people would expect you to acknowledge certain things as fact if you try to roleplay with them, or have them understand a story you've written. Just my 2c.
Nikotium
Minmatar Star Scrapers
#94 - 2012-06-14 16:07:06 UTC
Teinyhr wrote:
In game mechanics =/= lore. I don't understand why people seem to think this, in many other MMO's as well. In-universe, ships have a crew, altough it is not reflected ingame. It's up to you of course to ignore them if you will, don't matter to me none.

Nikotium; If you want to write fan-fiction, or roleplay, then you need to know the world you're writing about. I'm all for imagination, but when you're playing with someone elses universe, well, you should play by the rules and guidelines they have set. Again, you're free to imagine your ship however you like, but I think most people would expect you to acknowledge certain things as fact if you try to roleplay with them, or have them understand a story you've written. Just my 2c.



i'm going to roleplay the way i want and imagine my ship the way i want, and not really care about weather people look down their elitist noses at me, just because i like to imagine that i am not ALL alone on a 50000 m3 large ship. but that is just in my mind, not something i write in the chat :P i will not adhere to the "rules" of this universe, since they seem to be very much made up by the players themselfs, i WAS going to write a short roleplaying story about my character.. but seeing all that hootnany that got started because of "crews or no crews" i really do not feel like it. and am i the only one that have trouble finding anyone to roleplay with... even if i apply for those corporations under the Roleplaying section of the Corporation tab, i end up with non-roleplaying people. kinda annoying, if you ask me :P

"Ya'll need to cool yo jets! Aint no need fer all that hate."

Nathan Isaiah
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#95 - 2012-06-15 02:38:08 UTC
Hello! New here, and this is the first time I've ever been interested in replying to some of the many forum post I've read. I have a somewhat basic level of the game's lore and fiction, as much as many people have of their own country's history, so what I say could be completely off-base. However, I still want to at least give my opinion on the matter:

EVE wormhole collapse and colony failure: I consider this period in Eve lore to be similar to the European's colonization of the New World. The establishment of a colony generally requires a settling population with the skills to somewhat sustain themselves, but they would still be heavily reliant on frequent resupply ships from the homeland. Even still, some early colonies still failed due to environmental factors, starvation, harsh climate, etc. Many of Eve's earliest settlers would have experienced this same phenomenon on some of their planets. This was a "new" universe with new plagues, diseases, and challenges to overcome.

Now imagine if Europe suddenly disappeared and those fledgling settlements or colonies had to rely on themselves without the resupply missions from their homeland. More than likely, many colonies would fail simply because the likelihood that those colonies had all the necessary skilled colonists to pick up slack for the sudden drop in resupply is ... doubtful. While some space stations and ships would have probably been trapped in the Eve universe after wormhole collapse, they would probably also eventually fall into disrepair and used for scrap simply because most of the shipyards would have been in the Milky Way (MW). Lore also says that it was the corporations in the MW that wanted to expand to the Eve universe, and corporations want to do things the cheap way. Is it cheaper to build the entire infrastructure needed to support your colony on a new planet? Or is it cheaper to use already existing facilities in the MW and ship it through the wormhole? The colonies were more-than-likely meant to serve a purpose (i.e. mining) for the particular corporation that sponsored them. And the independent colonist groups? They probably didn't have the financial backing. Just some things to think about.

Capsuleer and crew: As for the "human's reproducing" thing that everyone seems to think is the limiting factor for why ships wouldn't get recrewed so quickly.... remember that all the empires (and pirates probably too) have cloning technology, and in fact, the Caldari use it extensively (as my guy IS a tube child). Earth currently has 7 billion people. Consider how many populated planets there are in the Eve universe. I'd be willing to bet that a lot of them have way more than 7 billion people. There are probably no short supply of crew members. Let's take a mathematical example!

If every player of Eve (assuming 20,000) flew a Titan with a maximum crew of 145,000 people:

20,000 * 145,000 = 2,900,000,000 crew members

2.9 billion crew members if everyone flew a Titan really isn't that much in the universe of Eve with all the planets and people. This number is assuming 100% mortality rate and maximum crew count for all races. The website linked discusses the differences in empire mentalities about war. Caldari are highly militarized, therefore no shortage of crewman. Ammar have more automation than people assume, and even if they didn't, religious zealots are more than willing to give their lives serving for their Empress and God. Gallente have low crew counts, but they make it up with the most automation. Minmatar have high crew counts because they are fighting for a cause and rely on less automation, and fighting in the name of "freedom from oppression" that can be a powerful motivator to get crews aboard your ships.

And as for a capsuleer caring or interacting with his crew, why not? When I go into these missions, I know that I am taking the lives of my crew and the people who work on this ship into my own hands, even if I can't die. I also know I need to make the money to upgrade my ship, to better protect me, my assets, and my crew. In real life, being with a crew longer usually increases ship overall efficiency due to the crew "knowing" each other, and this is actually something I wish CCP would include in the game mechanics (i.e. the longer you haven't had your ship destroyed, general ship's efficiency would increase by like ~1-3% in some areas). I imagine that the crew make money as well for serving on these ships, although it doesn't come out of my ISK.

Lore and fiction-writing: I will never, ever criticize someone for expressing their creativity and thinking outside the box when given a rigid set of rules to follow in order to conform to "lore" of a game. Eve, however, has a general lore background that seems open-ended and promotes exploration of the fictional universe. It is silly of us to assume that the lore is "illogical" or "logical" based on our own interpretations of it. Religious crusades have killed people for less! The fact is, Eve is played by people from many different countries, each with their own cultural and personal ideas of "logical" and "illogical". Our own history, as it has been pointed out before, is riddled with plotholes and misinterpretations. History is written by the victors, and in this case, CCP is the victor because they literally own the universe that we participate in.

So what I say is: Write your stories however you feel it should be. Not everyone will always agree with your interpretation of it, but it doesn't matter. What matters is that YOU enjoyed writing and sharing it. Personally, I enjoy reading different perspectives on game lore.

Anyway, I have to end it soon. Running out of characters. This was just all my opinion. See you in game!
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#96 - 2012-06-15 14:09:24 UTC
Nathan Isaiah wrote:
Lore and fiction-writing: I will never, ever criticize someone for expressing their creativity and thinking outside the box when given a rigid set of rules to follow in order to conform to "lore" of a game. Eve, however, has a general lore background that seems open-ended and promotes exploration of the fictional universe. It is silly of us to assume that the lore is "illogical" or "logical" based on our own interpretations of it. Religious crusades have killed people for less! The fact is, Eve is played by people from many different countries, each with their own cultural and personal ideas of "logical" and "illogical". Our own history, as it has been pointed out before, is riddled with plotholes and misinterpretations. History is written by the victors, and in this case, CCP is the victor because they literally own the universe that we participate in.

So what I say is: Write your stories however you feel it should be. Not everyone will always agree with your interpretation of it, but it doesn't matter. What matters is that YOU enjoyed writing and sharing it. Personally, I enjoy reading different perspectives on game lore.

Anyway, I have to end it soon. Running out of characters. This was just all my opinion. See you in game!


Well, the lore does only exists because the game needed something to support it - nothing more.

CCP own the IP, but not our keyboards - and as mentioned, anything we write cannot break lore, because we do not write lore, we write fan fiction.

AK

This space for rent.

Nathan Isaiah
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#97 - 2012-06-15 18:01:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Nathan Isaiah
AlleyKat wrote:
CCP own the IP, but not our keyboards - and as mentioned, anything we write cannot break lore, because we do not write lore, we write fan fiction.


Also a valid point. Touche, my friend. :)

I feel like, "We do not write lore, we write fan fiction!" should be made into a t-shirt or poster. Lol.
Viktor Fyretracker
Emminent Terraforming
#98 - 2012-06-16 05:40:43 UTC
Mira Robinson wrote:
I was under the impression that Capsuleer-piloted ships had no crew. That due to the connections in the pod, they essentially were the ship, and didn't require anyone else.

If I am wrong, please correct me, as I'm planning some Eve fiction. Thanks.



no command crew.

basically to put things in perspective if the Starship Enterprise where a pod ship, you would not need the bridge crew or the bridge bunnies. Kirk would be in an egg pod. But you would still need scotty and his engineering team to keep the engines running when they are shot full of holes.



As for crew survival here is where I separate gameplay from story. In game for the sake of gameplay, ships go pop and of the line. In a story though there is no reason one could not have a ship taking an unholy beating as the life boats eject. Naturally like any real world naval ship there would be losses even with life boats.

This brings us to the stealing a ship idea, One thought I had on this was an insertion team sneaking onto a ship in the middle of battle. once the shields are down a boarding pod is shot at the high value vessel and commandos go aboard. However they have combat eva suits so killing the air would not stop them. They have a hacker on board that hacks the pod safety systems and tells them the reactor is going critical forcing a pod eject and allowing the enemy to slide their own pod in and take control.

EVE is like swimming on a beach in shark infested waters,  There is however a catch...  The EVE Beach you also have to wonder which fellow swimmer will try and eat you before the sharks.

Bluddwolf
Heimatar Military Industries
#99 - 2012-06-16 12:07:12 UTC
I would like to thank everyone for their thoughtful contributions to this discussion. This is by far my most successful thread. It would have been nice to get a dev comment in here, but then again, I think we have been doing a pretty good job without one.

As the summer months quickly approach, I'll likely begin my writing project in July. I will certainly be using some of the insights expressed here as part of my story telling.

@Viktor .... Stealing Ships, is somehting I was not thinking of. How does a Capsuleer take control of the crew of a ship he/she captures?

* Crew Compacency = "I don't care who is piloting this ship, as long as I get paid"

If we buy into the idea that capsuleers are universally disliked, feared and or worshiped, then the "little people" couldn't care less with whom is piloting the ship.

* Crew fear = Capsuleer Announces: "I am now your captain, follow my instructions or I will vent all of your asses into space, and get a new crew at the next station."

This could of course be an idle threat, but we get back to the "capsuleers are universally disliked, feared and or worshiped", and the crew won't take the chance that he/she is bluffing.

Will a crew be all that loyal?

The Amarr have an Empire, an Empress and perhaps even a Religion that Amarrian crews might be loyal towards.

The Caldari have Mega Corporations, but no real "National or Imperial" identity. They are essentially, all mercenaries or private contractors (if you like the description better).

The Minmatar have their Republic, but as is the case with all republics it is fragmented. Minmatar tend to be more loyal towards their tribal affiliation than the Republic as a whole.

The Gallente have their Federation, and they seem to be pretty loyal towards it.

So the question stands, how would crews react to having one capsuleer abandon ship, to be replaced by the capsuleer that forced him to flee.

EVE Online Fan ... Looking for "End Game" since 2006 ... Happily, I still havn't found it

Viktor Fyretracker
Emminent Terraforming
#100 - 2012-06-16 12:47:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Viktor Fyretracker
Well even threaten to vent the place may or may not work, depending on the skill of the engineering crew and how much control the pod has over the minor non flight/combat related subsystems.

For all we know the crew is who keeps things like life support going.

However smaller vessels like cruisers could likely be secured by a fairly small commando team. they simply have their hacker once the pod switch is in progress close all the bulkheads and lock them. small team goes to engineering and the magazine of course to make sure nobody sets anything to explode.(this would be a risk even with venting as we have no clue how things work for crews in EVE, for all we know something like some kinda scifi eva suit that allows lots of agility is worn during combat situations already so the crew can keep working even if a compartment decompresses.)

the environmental suits naturally likely would depend on the faction of the pilot owning the ship. Amarr pilots may or may not care depending on if they see buying new slaves as an investment or merely a cost of operations. Gallente crews are likely more valued by gallente pilots simply for being people as that is something of value to them I think. Caldari would have the suits because a crew member is an investment cost and cost is cost to a caldari. Minmatar it would likely be completely up to the pilot.

EVE is like swimming on a beach in shark infested waters,  There is however a catch...  The EVE Beach you also have to wonder which fellow swimmer will try and eat you before the sharks.