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Destruction Testing the New Wardec System (Ganks Included - Free wardec inside)

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Author
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#1 - 2012-06-08 15:04:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine
Destruction Testing the New Wardec System (Ganks Included)

Okay here’s what I understand of the way wardecs work now with inferno. Entity X pays a fee to declare war against entity Y. This becomes a formal war. Entity Y has a couple of options at this point. It can:

a) Fight the war alone
b) Call for allies to fight the war
c) Offer a surrender to the aggressor

and

d) Double-down by declaring the war mutual.

Ways of finishing a war (again to my understanding)

1) Beat up the aggressor so they stop paying the war and the war ends (all allies go home)
2) Get beaten up by the aggressor, offer a surrender that the aggressor accepts (all allies go home)
3) Run away and hide so the aggressor gets bored and stops paying for the war anyway
4) Disband alliance / corp etc and skulk off like a yellow dog

Now these all really give the aggressor a bit too much power to either pay or stop paying and thus control their own involvement in the war. The aggressor could even run away and keep paying just to save face before claiming an accidental “oops we forgot to pay concord this week :shrug:” style excuse

So to the more interesting option in the new system making a war mutual.


By the text of the Inferno war blog it seems that if the war fee is zero (as it will be in mutual war) then the aggressor can no longer just :shrug: and forget to pay the bill they are stuck in the war as long as the defender wants them to be. This means the aggressor would have to propose a surrender contract that is accepted by the defending entity (and would presumably have to be worth quite a bit!)

Now originally in the Inferno war blog they said they didn’t know what to do about allies in a mutual war and discussed having the allies drop and barred from joining if the war is made mutual – but it seems CCP thought the better of that option (which is good because otherwise there is a huge advantage for a large power deccing a smaller one). I’ve tested making a war mutual, and adding allies to the war on top and the functionality works.

So to the destruction test of the new wardec system.


My alliance “The Star Fraction” has been wardecced by Goonswarm Federation. Presumably as part of Mittani’s “ministry of love/deathsquad” kneejerk against forum foes – but really the details don’t matter. Currently The Star Fraction is about 9000 members smaller than Goonswarm. The Goons have enough isk to maintain such a wardec for about ten million years so from their perspective would be eternal as long as they want it.

This didn’t sit well to my taste so I decided to make it mutual. This means the war is eternal unless they surrender to The Star Fraction. A surrender contract you can be assured will be widely publicised and circulated. The minimum sum we're likely to accept from Mittani for a surrender will be 5 billion isk per active ally we have at the time of the surrender but we promise to invite the heads of all allied corporations into a channel to discuss and vote on such terms and division of spoils across all allies

We do however have a bit of a problem. We’re currently allied to the republic militias fighting against the Amarrian 24th Crusade and formally wardecced against both the Amarrian Imperium and the Caldari State – which rules our ships out of sensible combat options across the majority of hisec where the goons like the travel.

So we need more allies!

Our allies will get for the grand cost of “well nothing really” an enduring wardec with the largest alliance in Eve Online which will last as long as it takes for Mittani to offer a formal and expensive surrender to the Star Fraction.

I will accept all allied assistance offers as long as the contract is offered for free.

My ambition is to see hisec New Eden turned into an Inferno-scale grand war of Goonswarm Federation (9000 members) against 9000 heroic rag tag mercs, independents, vengeance-seeking ex victims, rival warlords, in fact anyone who wants to shoot Goons in high security space anywhere in new eden.

If this can be done it would mean more people would be on the books on the Goonswarm Federation vs New Eden (hosted by the Star Fraction) wardec than in Gallente vs Caldari faction war, and you have to admit that would be rather grand.


  • I’d like to test the system to this extent.
  • I’d like to see if CCP planned for this kind of huge mutual all-encompassing wardec
  • I’d like to see an outfit that is initially 9100 v 100 outgunned use the ally system to significantly even the odds.
  • And I'd like to see if Eve's biggest organization can be hoisted on their own petard and humiliated by the wardec system.


So if you are interested in adding 9100 FREE wartargets to your hisec activities whatever they are then open the Wars dialogue in your corp management screen and search for “the star fraction” select the “Goonswarm Federation vs The Star Fraction” (mutual war) option only and offer assistance. If you make the offer zero isk I’ll accept it and welcome to the free war against the fattest target list in New Eden.

(Be aware, if your organization is ALREADY in a war or allied to a war against Goonswarm Federation I will not be able to accept your offer of assistance at this time.)

I'll keep the thread updated as heroic new allies join the struggle and bright acts of revolutionary violence are done against the regressive hulls of Goonswarm vessels.

















TLDR.

If you want to kill Goons click corp/wars search "the star fraction" find "goonswarm federation vs the star fraction" click the the plus sword icon and send an offer for zero isk.

Profit.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#2 - 2012-06-08 15:05:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine
Current Status of the War: 9th June 2012

Allies enlisted:

Next Era Dawn
The Blacklist LTd.
Spontaneous Castigation
Pandora Cartel
Kurst Security
Envy.
P I R A T
We Help Noobs
Ex Obscuritas
Nocturnal Twins
New Eden Lotto
Unicorn Zero
Kamikaze Tactics
Pods Must Cry
Iron Oxide.
Kicking Smurfs
I AM UGLY AND THIS MAKES ME ANGRY ALSO JUMP
Freight Club (top goon killers so far!)
Tactical Nightmare
PAX Interstellar Mercenary People
Destruction Overload
Moar Tears
Hikage Corporation
Corsairs.
Electric Society
Hostile Kids
Dukes of Noobs

Results:

Revolutionary Space Fighters = 9455m isk and 38 ships blasted to bits.
Statist Lickspittal Goons = 656m in snide counterattacks and 11 ships killed.
3 yellow dog corporations have also jumped the goon ship.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Lock out
Shadows Of The Federation
#3 - 2012-06-08 15:46:25 UTC
Where do I click if I want to assist goons ?
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#4 - 2012-06-08 15:47:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine
Lock out wrote:
Where do I click if I want to assist goons ?


You'd need to find a war where somebody has wardecced them and they asked for assistence.
good luck with that though, its a bit expensive for the person deccing now.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

L0rdF1end
Gang Bang You're Dead
Wrecktical Supremacy.
#5 - 2012-06-08 16:49:08 UTC
lol, amusing, sounds fun. Keep us posted on the War front.

Goons are clearly bored again.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Noctis
Shoot First.
#6 - 2012-06-08 17:39:00 UTC  |  Edited by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
Just remember that allies in a war are permanently the war. They will be completely unable to withdraw, and a mutual war will end only when both parties agree to it. The conspiracy theorist in my head is screaming "it's a Goon plot to trap people in a war!"

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#7 - 2012-06-08 18:03:10 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Just remember that allies in a war are permanently the war. They will be completely unable to withdraw, and a mutual war will end only when both parties agree to it. The conspiracy theorist in my head is screaming "it's a Goon plot to trap people in a war!"


Well the way I see it - its more a case of they are trapped in here with us.

Consider for example "burn jita 2" (or burn rens or amarr or wherever) the ordinary practise from goons on the run up would be to forget to pay all their war bills so they are free to run gank groups against freighters with no interference.

This way with the eternal war option they cannot divest themselves of the wardec and will have to put up with heroic guerilla actions blowing up their ships and forcing pvp rather than pure ganking.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Jones Bones
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-06-08 18:17:58 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:

This way with the eternal war option they cannot divest themselves of the wardec and will have to put up with heroic guerilla actions blowing up their ships and forcing pvp rather than pure ganking.


Ask the random high sec war deccers how that worked out for them in Jita.
Marsan
#9 - 2012-06-08 18:19:52 UTC
Really what I've been thinking is it makes more sense to make the war mutual, leave the corp/alliance, and then force the aggressor to carry another war. I haven't run the numbers but it looks cheaper to keep a corp going than the additional cost another war adds to new war decs....

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#10 - 2012-06-08 18:28:44 UTC
Marsan wrote:
Really what I've been thinking is it makes more sense to make the war mutual, leave the corp/alliance, and then force the aggressor to carry another war. I haven't run the numbers but it looks cheaper to keep a corp going than the additional cost another war adds to new war decs....


This isn't about defender wardec evasion Marsan and the cost of the wardec to an organization like Goonswarm is utterly irrelevant. (they could pay 100x the amount they are currently paying to dec us until the servers were turned off).

This test is about binding them to a war that they cannot themselves get out of without surrendering formally or skipping out of their own identity in what would become the most notorious case of alliance level wardec evasion in the history of eve online.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Powers Sa
#11 - 2012-06-09 07:59:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Powers Sa
Jade Constantine wrote:

  • I’d like to see an outfit that is initially 9100 v 100 outgunned use the ally system to significantly even the odds.
  • And I'd like to see if Eve's biggest organization can be hoisted on their own petard and humiliated by the wardec system.

  • There is absolutely no way you could demoralize us.
    Take this kill for example: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13610769
    hahahaha this owns. The only people we enjoy making fun of more than you, is other goons.

    Ladies and gentleman: You wanted it, you got it, the very first free forever-war.

    Do you like winning t2 frigs and dictors for Dirt Cheap?https://eveninggames.net/register/ref/dQddmNgyLhFBqNJk

    Remeber: Gambling addiction is no laughing matter unless you've lost a vast space fortune on the internet.

    Stalking Mantis
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #12 - 2012-06-09 10:19:17 UTC
    That's allot of words for:

    My mouth/ego wrote a check my pvp cannot cash. Please HALP me by distracting the goons away from me.

    Amarr Liason Officer Extraordinare -->Check Out Amarrian Vengeance/Amarr FW History from 2011 to 2014 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=352629&find=unread

    Reppyk
    The Black Shell
    #13 - 2012-06-09 11:13:09 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
    Powers Sa wrote:
    hahahaha this owns. The only people we enjoy making fun of more than you, is other goons.
    I got another funny one for you :*snip* Posting of kill reports outside of the Crime & Punishment forum channel is prohibited. ISD Ezwal

    Lol

    I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK. BEWARE.

    Proud co-admin of frugu.net, a French fansite about EVE !

    Ex0101
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #14 - 2012-06-09 11:58:12 UTC
    Good move Jade, love it!

    Good luck to all that get involved :)
    Jade Constantine
    Jericho Fraction
    The Star Fraction
    #15 - 2012-06-09 12:20:25 UTC
    Powers Sa wrote:
    Jade Constantine wrote:

  • I’d like to see an outfit that is initially 9100 v 100 outgunned use the ally system to significantly even the odds.
  • And I'd like to see if Eve's biggest organization can be hoisted on their own petard and humiliated by the wardec system.

  • There is absolutely no way you could demoralize us.
    Take this kill for example: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13610769
    hahahaha this owns. The only people we enjoy making fun of more than you, is other goons.

    Ladies and gentleman: You wanted it, you got it, the very first free forever-war.


    Well its a funny thing really. Inferno gave us all what we want!

    The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

    Jade Constantine
    Jericho Fraction
    The Star Fraction
    #16 - 2012-06-09 12:21:20 UTC
    Stalking Mantis wrote:
    That's allot of words for:

    My mouth/ego wrote a check my pvp cannot cash. Please HALP me by distracting the goons away from me.




    Haha Stalking thats funny. You hoping these guys will join the amarr and boost your fleets?

    The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

    Powers Sa
    #17 - 2012-06-09 12:26:03 UTC
    Stalking Mantis wrote:
    That's allot of words for:

    My mouth/ego wrote a check my pvp cannot cash. Please HALP me by distracting the goons away from me.


    Jade is literally giving us what we want.
    I'll direct quote from goon jabber:
    "so wait, jade is helping our wardec everyone thing? Good job you failed miserable tranny. A noob lost a jf that owns OWNS. That guy is ********. Boredom is definitely more harmful to our morale than welps or stupid jump freighter losses or camping. I'm so happy jade has decided to mutual us and is letting anyone join free."
    By giving us more targets and people to make fun of, you are giving us more things that we enjoy. When your brags and boasts yield no results, what then? You'll still be stuck in a forever war that you cannot escape without shuttering the doors of your lovely little empire. You are trapping moronic pubbies who know nothing about wardec mechanics, just because you want to attempt to do something that you think will harm us. You will get bored with this long before we can.

    Hope that helps.

    Do you like winning t2 frigs and dictors for Dirt Cheap?https://eveninggames.net/register/ref/dQddmNgyLhFBqNJk

    Remeber: Gambling addiction is no laughing matter unless you've lost a vast space fortune on the internet.

    Jade Constantine
    Jericho Fraction
    The Star Fraction
    #18 - 2012-06-09 12:37:08 UTC
    Powers Sa wrote:
    You will get bored with this long before we can.
    Hope that helps.


    Jericho Fraction has been at war pretty much consistently since they turned on the servers. We don't really do anything in hisec except hunt our enemies. For the longest time its been a dream of ours to have a free wardec against a huge imperialist bulk alliance so commerce-raiding amusement can happen without fiscal restraint at the pay in.

    Truly this Inferno wardec structure seems to have given us both what we want and as long as you guys take pleasure from mocking your own membership for losses then I imagine you'll enjoy this too.

    As stated in the op - the long term intention is to see if we can encourage 9000 pilots worth of allies to join a free wardec against the goons - its an absolutely monumental undertaking and if we ever come close it'll be one of the most historic achievements in the game so far for everyone concerned.

    Now personally, I think Mittani will start bleating and threadnaughting ccp for a change to the mechanic long before that happens - but hey, lets look on the bright side and hope he sucks it up instead Cool

    The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

    Captain Kanki
    Brutor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #19 - 2012-06-09 12:40:12 UTC
    Goon propaganda best propaganda!

    La Nariz
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #20 - 2012-06-09 14:00:12 UTC
    FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
    Just remember that allies in a war are permanently the war. They will be completely unable to withdraw, and a mutual war will end only when both parties agree to it. The conspiracy theorist in my head is screaming "it's a Goon plot to trap people in a war!"


    Someone gets it, give this man a beer.

    This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133

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