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Destruction Testing the New Wardec System (Ganks Included - Free wardec inside)

First post
Author
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#41 - 2012-06-11 15:36:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine
Fuujin wrote:
I'm pretty sure it was the "mercs" who were whining to CCP about this, since now if you get wardec'd and want help you just put up an advert and the various hisec pvp bottom feeders will flock to your banner. No more multibillion contracts, no more reputation building campaigns--or at least, they'd get lost in the fray and you'd have bottom feeders seeking to mooch credit.

We've been laughing all the way to the bank with this wardec system as is; being able to shoot everything that moves in hisec has long been a fond dream. Hell, if we're going to pester devs to make changes we'd do so to EXPAND the wardec system--we need to be able to dec NPC corps.



I think the irony for "merc corps" is that rather than being paid to join allied wars they will now be asked to pay for the service.

Inferno Wardec system now : one can invite and add an ally for free.

Inferno Wardec system 1.1: it will cost a concord fee to add an ally to the war for 2 weeks.

I guess it'll come down to a choice of paying concord direct to wardec x alliance (say 500m to wardec goonswarm) or paying somebody that goonswarm has wardecced something less than 500m that still covers the concord admin fee on the defender side.

Either way nobody is going to be paying mercenaries anything for unspecified services during incoming wardecs (the concord fee will come right out of their potential profits).

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Fuujin
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#42 - 2012-06-11 15:42:51 UTC
Not my problem. I was just proffering the arguments offered in the initial wardec reactions thread.

The fact that you're trying so hard to spin this as a GSF inspired change is endlessly amusing; please continue!
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#43 - 2012-06-11 15:52:01 UTC
*posts a way to exploit game mechanics on eve-o*
*those get patched*
*is suprised*

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#44 - 2012-06-11 15:56:33 UTC
Fuujin wrote:
Not my problem. I was just proffering the arguments offered in the initial wardec reactions thread.

The fact that you're trying so hard to spin this as a GSF inspired change is endlessly amusing; please continue!



Well, these changes are massively to your benefit (to the benefit of those of you who are yellow dog wardec evading cowards I should say).

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#45 - 2012-06-11 15:57:52 UTC
our wardec ain't never gonna drop jade, even when you give up and offer surrender terms

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Fuujin
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#46 - 2012-06-11 16:07:16 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Fuujin wrote:
Not my problem. I was just proffering the arguments offered in the initial wardec reactions thread.

The fact that you're trying so hard to spin this as a GSF inspired change is endlessly amusing; please continue!



Well, these changes are massively to your benefit (to the benefit of those of you who are yellow dog wardec evading cowards I should say).



How exactly are we wardec evading, when we are the ones who declared war? :psyduck:

Jade is now 4 levels deep in his conspiracy theories.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#47 - 2012-06-11 16:24:35 UTC
Fuujin wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Fuujin wrote:
Not my problem. I was just proffering the arguments offered in the initial wardec reactions thread.

The fact that you're trying so hard to spin this as a GSF inspired change is endlessly amusing; please continue!



Well, these changes are massively to your benefit (to the benefit of those of you who are yellow dog wardec evading cowards I should say).



How exactly are we wardec evading, when we are the ones who declared war?


Well on Inferno 1.1 our 33 allies will suddenly cost more ISK than exists in the Eve universe per 2 week cycle. These changes will free you of 33 wardecs pretty much instantly.

+ it will no longer be possible to tie you into a war via mutualling it (while having any allies at all).

Its a triumph of Nerfing the Wardec system to allow you guys to evade responsibility and consequence for your dec.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#48 - 2012-06-11 16:27:04 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
our wardec ain't never gonna drop jade, even when you give up and offer surrender terms


Of course not, now its impossible to match your numbers via the ally system you will never have any reason to surrender. And since the mutual dec possibility has also been nerfed there is no consequence to declaring wars - you know you *could* leave any time you wanted.

You are pretty much making my argument for me.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#49 - 2012-06-11 16:33:02 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
our wardec ain't never gonna drop jade, even when you give up and offer surrender terms


Of course not, now its impossible to match your numbers via the ally system you will never have any reason to surrender. And since the mutual dec possibility has also been nerfed there is no consequence to declaring wars - you know you *could* leave any time you wanted.

You are pretty much making my argument for me.

jade you seem to have this odd belief that we disapproved of you giving us so many extra people to shoot

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#50 - 2012-06-11 16:41:17 UTC
If you think that it was Goons who were doing the whining about the fact you could bring in an infinite number of allies into a war for free then you're pretty stupid and haven't been paying attention to the commentary on the new wardec system at all. Although GSF and TEST did manage to do a very good job of demonstrating how utterly absurd it is. Particularly TEST and with their war against BEEP which now stands at 5 ships killed for 386 million isk vs 521 lost for 13.4 billion isk.

TEST are just comically bad imitators.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#51 - 2012-06-11 16:41:31 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
our wardec ain't never gonna drop jade, even when you give up and offer surrender terms


Of course not, now its impossible to match your numbers via the ally system you will never have any reason to surrender. And since the mutual dec possibility has also been nerfed there is no consequence to declaring wars - you know you *could* leave any time you wanted.

You are pretty much making my argument for me.

jade you seem to have this odd belief that we disapproved of you giving us so many extra people to shoot


I think you disapproved of the possibility that the wardec might actually have hurt you.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#52 - 2012-06-11 16:42:59 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
If you think that it was Goons who were doing the whining about the fact you could bring in an infinite number of allies into a war for free then you're pretty stupid and haven't been paying attention to the commentary on the new wardec system at all. Although GSF and TEST did manage to do a very good job of demonstrating how utterly absurd it is. Particularly TEST and with their war against BEEP which now stands at 5 ships killed for 386 million isk vs 521 lost for 13.4 billion isk.

TEST are just comically bad imitators.


Is there really a difference between Goons and Test? Afraid I don't really spend that much time looking into strange internet cults :)

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Krios Ahzek
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#53 - 2012-06-11 17:29:55 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
our wardec ain't never gonna drop jade, even when you give up and offer surrender terms


Of course not, now its impossible to match your numbers via the ally system you will never have any reason to surrender. And since the mutual dec possibility has also been nerfed there is no consequence to declaring wars - you know you *could* leave any time you wanted.

You are pretty much making my argument for me.

jade you seem to have this odd belief that we disapproved of you giving us so many extra people to shoot


I think you disapproved of the possibility that the wardec might actually have hurt you.



Hurt us how? At any given second, wardecs or not, there is nothing that stops your 40 allies from barging down to Deklein and taking all of our technetium, reducing our current financial strategy to ashes. This is also the only thing that could hurt us. Killing three highsec ships paid for by personal ISK literally cannot hurt GSF as an entity.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#54 - 2012-06-11 17:32:18 UTC
Krios Ahzek wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
our wardec ain't never gonna drop jade, even when you give up and offer surrender terms


Of course not, now its impossible to match your numbers via the ally system you will never have any reason to surrender. And since the mutual dec possibility has also been nerfed there is no consequence to declaring wars - you know you *could* leave any time you wanted.

You are pretty much making my argument for me.

jade you seem to have this odd belief that we disapproved of you giving us so many extra people to shoot


I think you disapproved of the possibility that the wardec might actually have hurt you.



Hurt us how? At any given second, wardecs or not, there is nothing that stops your 40 allies from barging down to Deklein and taking all of our technetium, reducing our current financial strategy to ashes. This is also the only thing that could hurt us. Killing three highsec ships paid for by personal ISK literally cannot hurt GSF as an entity.


hmmm how about blowing up your jump-freighters full of moon minerals :)

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Haquer
Vorkuta Inc
#55 - 2012-06-11 17:55:16 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:

hmmm how about blowing up your jump-freighters full of moon minerals :)


As a GSOL ~sub director~ I can tell you that we don't use in-corp freighters to move moon goo. Why would you ever think that we would do that?
Doctor Benway Kado
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#56 - 2012-06-11 18:41:05 UTC
Wait, I'm confused. So mutual wars can't have allies,I get that. But couldn't you just keep this a defensive war, bring in allies for us to kill, and rest easy in the knowledge that we're never letting that war expire (unless the Mittani steals the alliance wallet)?

I really want more war targets :/
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#57 - 2012-06-11 18:46:41 UTC
Doctor Benway Kado wrote:
Wait, I'm confused. So mutual wars can't have allies,I get that. But couldn't you just keep this a defensive war, bring in allies for us to kill, and rest easy in the knowledge that we're never letting that war expire (unless the Mittani steals the alliance wallet)?

I really want more war targets :/



the patch notes say that each defensive ally will now incur a charge to concord that will increase exponentially on the total number of allies.

We don't have numbers yet but lets assume the cheapest will be 1m isk. If the cost increase goes something like:

1,2,4,8,16,32 etc ... by the time we reach our current number of allies it'll cost more isk than exists in Eve online each 2 week period to maintain our current roster against you.

You might well have wanted more targets Benway Kado, I was happy to accomodate you, but your alliance leadership thought otherwise and has been on a whine-line-crisis phone to the CSM.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Kyle Myr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2012-06-11 19:01:35 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Doctor Benway Kado wrote:
Wait, I'm confused. So mutual wars can't have allies,I get that. But couldn't you just keep this a defensive war, bring in allies for us to kill, and rest easy in the knowledge that we're never letting that war expire (unless the Mittani steals the alliance wallet)?

I really want more war targets :/



the patch notes say that each defensive ally will now incur a charge to concord that will increase exponentially on the total number of allies.

We don't have numbers yet but lets assume the cheapest will be 1m isk. If the cost increase goes something like:

1,2,4,8,16,32 etc ... by the time we reach our current number of allies it'll cost more isk than exists in Eve online each 2 week period to maintain our current roster against you.

You might well have wanted more targets Benway Kado, I was happy to accomodate you, but your alliance leadership thought otherwise and has been on a whine-line-crisis phone to the CSM.


Your paranoid conspiracies are hilarious.

You still haven't commented on Issler having more allies than you. Both of you mostly have people that would wardec us anyway to catch people dumb enough to have GSF characters in market hubs (there are plenty of these, it's funny to us too).

If people want to fight us, they always could come to Pure Blind, Venal, Fade, Cloud Ring, Deklein, Branch, Tenal, or Fountain. All this changes is our likelihood of having our current 70 wardecs in empire, which currently makes empire some bizarro version of NPC 0.0 with decent markets and enforced NRDS.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#59 - 2012-06-11 19:06:14 UTC
Kyle Myr wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Doctor Benway Kado wrote:
Wait, I'm confused. So mutual wars can't have allies,I get that. But couldn't you just keep this a defensive war, bring in allies for us to kill, and rest easy in the knowledge that we're never letting that war expire (unless the Mittani steals the alliance wallet)?

I really want more war targets :/



the patch notes say that each defensive ally will now incur a charge to concord that will increase exponentially on the total number of allies.

We don't have numbers yet but lets assume the cheapest will be 1m isk. If the cost increase goes something like:

1,2,4,8,16,32 etc ... by the time we reach our current number of allies it'll cost more isk than exists in Eve online each 2 week period to maintain our current roster against you.

You might well have wanted more targets Benway Kado, I was happy to accomodate you, but your alliance leadership thought otherwise and has been on a whine-line-crisis phone to the CSM.


Your paranoid conspiracies are hilarious.

You still haven't commented on Issler having more allies than you. Both of you mostly have people that would wardec us anyway to catch people dumb enough to have GSF characters in market hubs (there are plenty of these, it's funny to us too).

If people want to fight us, they always could come to Pure Blind, Venal, Fade, Cloud Ring, Deklein, Branch, Tenal, or Fountain. All this changes is our likelihood of having our current 70 wardecs in empire, which currently makes empire some bizarro version of NPC 0.0 with decent markets and enforced NRDS.


Well issler's dec is 4 weeks older than ours you know. And she also got first pick of the trade hub raiders. But 33 allies in 4 days wasn't bad!


The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Kyle Myr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2012-06-11 19:08:34 UTC
In calling them 'hub trade raiders' you acknowledge that these are corps that wardecced us anyway under the old system, and understand why we're calling this business as usual, then?