These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

New dev blog: Unified Inventory Changes

First post First post First post
Author
Piquet Raddei
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#221 - 2012-05-23 20:31:53 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Cyriacus Antonius wrote:
Will there ever be a way to revert to the old inventory system? I'm not sold on the new one at all, regardless of changes.


No, probably not. I will however go fairly far in implementing feedback that improves this piece of UI though. Feedback continues to be welcome.


This makes me a sad, sad panda...
Fraa Bjorn
Cell 317
#222 - 2012-05-23 20:34:49 UTC
I'm one of the guys that dislike the unified inventory, but here's some things that would REALLY improve it for me. My use case is moving stuff between corp-hangars and POS-arrays:

* Have "Division" as a horizontal tab-list instead of part of the tree-view; and keep it on the same division regardless of which arrays I select
* The "Filter" box (in the top right!) is cleared everytime I change what I'm viewing in the tree-list. This makes it very frustrating to find e.g. "Void L" in case a corp-mate has accidentally placed them somewhere else
* The new filters (bottom left) -- please let me filter what is displayed in the tree-view, not just what is displayed in each leaf. For examples, I wish I could filter "Division 5 and (deliveries or ammunition array or mobile laboratory)".
* When moving stuff; let me drag from the contents view and have the list-view scroll if I try to drag it to something that is not within the viewable area of the listview
* When moving stuff2: Please don't automatically change the viewed content after hovering the mouse after x seconds. This is just counterintuitive and accidentprone

That's all. And please spread the love to the people you no doubt have working overtime on the unified inventory!

All games have QQ, but only Eve has Q.Q

Palovana
Inner Fire Inc.
#223 - 2012-05-23 20:35:38 UTC
Rivqua wrote:
Hi,

As it's called "Unified Inventory", is it possible for me to seach all the available containers at once. Basically, I want to type in "Gyro" and let it show me all the Gyros in the containers. It would make it much easier to quickly find things (in corp / local / deliveries) to fit things to a ship. You would completly remove the need to swap tabs, and you can just sit there, type gyro, fit to ship, then type damage con > fit to ship, etc.

It would be a mad improvement for Unified Inventory!!

- Riv


Damn it, now you've made me hungry.
Piquet Raddei
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#224 - 2012-05-23 20:40:56 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:

Regarding this. We're talking about everything from having a favorites column for stuff, specific settings and even a search function there. Most of it is just in a stage where we're looking at it, but we're definitely looking into options like you're describing and other improvements.


No no no - hang on a second here...

You said in another post (and I'm too lazy to go find it) that you hated the fact that you had windows all over the place and you couldn't find stuff/manage stuff whatever, so you wanted to "unify" everything.

Now you're talking about adding favorites, more columns, searches - YOU'RE JUST ADDING MORE CLUTTER TO YOUR UNITY!!! You're not FIXING anything, you're just trying to find more ways to bury the problems. Now we'll have an even BIGGER inventory window with tons of clutter around ITS border, just like the EVE Client in general.

I've said everything else I feel elsewhere. It took a few days for you guys to realize that captains quarters weren't a huge success nor a big interest, and you let us revert. In a few more days hopefully you'll realize the same thing with your coveted "UI".

We love ya, CCP - or we wouldn't be on here with such passion for your creation. But sometimes you just gotta give the baby it's bottle.

I'll wait for my "Disable Unified Inventory" checkbox on the main menu. I will say "Ugh; THANK you CCP", click "uncheck" and log in to my favorite video game like any other day. No threats, no rants, no hate.
Conventia Underking
Underking Family
Khimi Harar
#225 - 2012-05-23 20:41:26 UTC
I'm not sure if someone else has brought this up, but why isn't there an isk column in the inventory (and while we are at it, an isk/m3 column). The data is there and honestly, having the total at the bottom is purely a 'nice to have' compared to the utility of having it as a column. Isk/m3 is useful if you want to decide what to evac from a wormhole first, for example.

Hopefully we can get this eventually.

For God; Salvation is Imperative, but not at the cost of our Humanity!

The Vitoc Problem - Conventia Underking

Herring
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#226 - 2012-05-23 20:45:19 UTC
Blue Harrier wrote:
Just like to say a quick thank you for the coming updates, the POS people will be so pleased.

Dragging out a separate window instead of the shift click will please me as I’m not a great lover of using the keyboard when I’m using my laptop and watching TV while playing Eve.

A question, will the ‘merged’ ships and items remain in the station services window for those that have them merged?

I have seen the ‘Separated’ compact mode windows already don’t know if this was by design or just me being lucky but if I held down shift and right clicked a cargo container it would open in a single window with the tree closed., if this is like it, very nice.



I agree. the whole shift + click thing is a step backwards.
Davina Sienar
The Misinterpretation of Silence
#227 - 2012-05-23 20:50:06 UTC
I just find it extremly funny if people all of the time say "It's something You need to get used to"

NO
I don't NEED
Its a Game . I play it for my fun and pleasure... and even pay for it.
It's not important for Life or survival or work.

So I don't NEED to get used to something ... I just NEED to stop paying / playing it.
full stop.
Demetri Slavic
Mind Games.
WE FORM V0LTA
#228 - 2012-05-23 20:55:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Demetri Slavic
Functionality i would like to see.


Option to have a similar functionality to the old system aka 2 buttons on sidebar, one for ship hanger one for items.

Active ship icon to remain in ship hanger window rather than disapearing to allow right clicking of it.

Able to open the base inventory window when one of the sub windows are seperated from it. (atm if you have any window related to the inventory open you have to close all of them before being able to reopen the inventory)

Edit.

Found another, restore the ability to open all the bays on a capital from the right click menu. Want to get to my ships bay and fuel bay kthnxbai

Edit 2.

Corp Hangers - The Horror.

1. Access Levels, Can we get these displayed again so that you know what you can and can't access.
2. Member Hangers, this use to open a pop up that listed corp members in alphabetic order so that you could open a window to drop stuff in their hangers. Very useful.
Now you have a tree list, that has every single member listed in some random order, yes not even listed alphetically, they are all just thrown in there.

EVE_NT London Organiser

https://www.facebook.com/EVELondonMeets

@EVELondonMeets

Next Meet: November 18th 2017

Kasriel
#229 - 2012-05-23 20:57:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Kasriel
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Cyriacus Antonius wrote:
Will there ever be a way to revert to the old inventory system? I'm not sold on the new one at all, regardless of changes.


No, probably not. I will however go fairly far in implementing feedback that improves this piece of UI though. Feedback continues to be welcome.


CCP Soundwave wrote:
Maintaining two systems really isn't an option and I've never seen this promised anywhere. As I mentioned, we'll continue making changes and making fixes (like the looting reverting to the main hangar) though, so if you're missing any specific piece of functionality we'll definitely look at the viability of implementing it.


first off, Soundwave the work you do talking to the community is excellent, i wouldn't dream of saying otherwise. the same goes to all the other CCP staff who do likewise, when the **** hits the fan your here listening to everybody vent, trying to help out, that's great, i just wish other staff would at least spend half an hour to an hour a day responding to questions on THEIR work (*cough* CCP Arrow and CCP Optimal *cough*) i know they must be busy but one hour to show that CCP is actually committed to keeping good communication with the player base - especially after incarna - would go much further than you or any other employee saying you don't know you didn't work on it.

now i'm sure this is going to get buried but here goes here are my personal concerns, starting with the really important general one.

first and most important, the process that's happened here is almost identical to incarna. CCP put something on the test server that wasn't ready for deployment, were told about issues over and over again in the feedback thread and then promptly ignored them all and made it mandatory. then to add insult to injury somebody at CCP decided to make a cut and paste support response for, which didn't answer the question asked, outright lies and then points out two things you can do and says "this'll fix it!" when it obviously doesn't.

the lie? "With it, you can more easily manage all of your inventory from one screen" you forgot to add unless you want to move it, then you'll have to scroll like there's no tomorrow if you have a decent number of assets or ships. And lets not mention the extra 5-20 seconds delay i'm experiencing every single time i dock or warp to a POS on a high end machine with a 100mb connection

the two things? why shift click and click the condense arrow of course! then it'll give you the same experience as before! whoever came up with this little gem obviously hasn't tried it, i challenge any one of you to hide the filter and tree system, and get the same functionality. go on. i'll wait.

This is poor communication pure and simple. as is the fact that you and everybody else at CCP seems to be trying their damnedest to ignore the great steaming pile of excrement in the room which is that the overwhelming majority of people on the forums? DO NOT WANT this system bugs or no bugs, they don't like it, it doesn't give the same functionality. most of the rational ones will agree some people will. and THAT is part of the problem, this new UI? isn't inherently good or bad, it's entirely situational and depends on what you do and how you do it for my CEO? it's good, for me? it's nigh useless, and instead of those people getting any sort of reasonable response or attempt at compromise we get what essentially boils down to "tough it's here to stay" which smacks of incarna yet again.

you say two systems aren't really an option? why. give us clear concise reasons. most of EVEs players are not stupid. most of us are professionals or at least adults who will listen to a rational argument. instead of just saying "we can't do it" tell us why not. also last time i checked it was plenty possible for - again - the whole incarna mess which again you said was mandatory and wouldn't be changed.

i really hope i'm wrong but it seems like this expansion is a huge step backwards not only as far as the inventory is concerned but also where CCPs direction is concerned.

to quote Hellmar from his devblog

CCP Hellmar wrote:
But enough talk from me. We all know that much quoted phrase, “It’s not what you say, it’s what you do,” that will make the difference here. From now on, CCP will focus on doing what we say and saying what we do. That is the path to restoring trust and moving forward.


please take 5 minutes and take the time to read that dev blog again and remind yourself of the mistakes and promises you made then.

Here i'll link it for you.

for me? i'm not mad, i'm genuinely sad about this backslide. and as it stands right now i'm not renewing my subs. that simple. no you can't have my stuff. kinda unfortunate that i've been playing for 5 years now, and the week i hit 100mill SP on my main account you kill the fun i get from the game. i build things, i use my inventory ALL the time, it's by far my most used feature, and you've destroyed it. what was 20minutes work per character is now nearly double that because of all the scrolling, and then second takes because it wasn't scrolling, and then corrections because i dropped materials into the wrong hanger by mistake.

the least it would take to turn this around in my eyes? make the new inventory UI in station only, preferably an option to disable it completely.

the best result as far as i'm concerned? an option to disable it - as like i said some people like it AND an apology for yet again ignoring your players.

and on a side note how exactly do you expect to get more people to test things on SiSi when you make a habit of ignoring the feedback you get from them? really.
Megarom
Fistful of Finns
#230 - 2012-05-23 20:59:45 UTC
Whatever actions there are available for a container in the tree view should be available and work exactly the same when operating on the icon representing the container in the inventory view.

I think the actions in the tree view now are
- left click to navigate current window to the container
- shift +L-click to open new window on the container.

On the icon the first effect happens with double click or selecting Open Container on the right click menu and the second seems to be missing completely.

Just make it consistent.



Asmodes Reynolds
Rayn Enterprises
#231 - 2012-05-23 21:05:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Asmodes Reynolds
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:
Thank you for addressing these issues quickly. I am unsure what happened to the optional nature of this UI change that we were promised (I'd link where that was told to us but it's currently impossible to find with search terms like 'optional'), and I have looked everywhere for the button to turn it off and don't see it. Good to see you're fixing it, that issue was going to cause a lot of people to quit. It currently makes the game much harder to play for many activities. If I didn't think you were going to address it, I would leave. I don't want to leave. I want the issues to be fixed.

Still looking for that option to turn it off...or the post that said that it would be optional. He was all excited about it, too, I'm going to keep looking for that post.


Maintaining two systems really isn't an option and I've never seen this promised anywhere. As I mentioned, we'll continue making changes and making fixes (like the looting reverting to the main hangar) though, so if you're missing any specific piece of functionality we'll definitely look at the viability of implementing it.


CCP Soundwave, I appreciate the fact that you guys don't want to maintain two inventory systems. After using the new system for about I would say 10 hours now. Inventory window without the tree would serve would serve just fine to replace the old UI function, the problem is you have removed all the buttons that used to access Most things. Put the buttons back using the new inventory system code, most people can just permanently shrink the tree portion of the window and you never have to use the clunky new feature. As far as the different Corporation hangar divisions, I'm willing to deal the tree system for that. But as I've said before removing it the buttons that everybody uses. To try and force them to experience your clunky system is just fing shortsighted, ignorant and arrogant . You pulled the same thing with Capt. quarters.

TL:DR

-- Put back all the old buttons that you were moved from both the right-click menu and everywhere else, that way people can just Srink the tree and never have to deal with it, with the exception of corporate hangars.
Shar'ri Atal
LoneStar Industries
Comatose Alliance
#232 - 2012-05-23 21:09:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Shar'ri Atal
Good to hear of the refinements that are planned. Fix the genuine problems that exist with the new system but be confident that the new UI was a step in the right direction.

The new inventory UI is a huge improvement over the old one. It's a weird hybrid of the classic Windows explorer layout (tree on left, contents on right) with Mac OS spring loaded folders while dragging items. It works.

Now consider going one step further. Remove the Assets UI. Take the tabs from the Assets UI and refactor them as a popup in the inventory UI. By default you only show items that are within range as it is now.

Second, vertical space in the tree view is not at a premium. Make the row height taller and put a count of how many items each node contains there. This gives a quick visual indication that items are present and also that items have been successfully moved.

Third, don't display a dink (technical term that) or disclosure triangle if a node contains no children. It's lazy. Since you'll be showing a contents count anyway you'll be able to use the information as to whether there is any child items. If you're smart you don't need to worry about extra database access. Update a node's leaf status and item count when items are added or removed from the node. Memory is cheaper than walking through a tree of nodes.

Good luck with your crusade to improve the EVE UI.

Senjaz
(An HCI specialist)
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#233 - 2012-05-23 21:10:01 UTC
So soundwave will "probably not" revert back to the old inventory system?

Well, then i will 'probably not' renew my subscription. You are just wasting it changing things for the worse anyway. Why would i waste more of my time playing this game when there are imbeciles making terrible design decisions (along with some good thankfully), quarter after quarter with very little interest in justifying it.

Like the overview locking for example is hideous and is still in game, i landed on an acceleration gate the other day, locked up the gate and 2 allies before i managed to start locking the actual war target. No joke.

Last time you guys lost a quarter of your staff, tbh im beginning to think there might eventually be more in that pipeline if you keep breaking things that wernt broken instead fixing what is.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#234 - 2012-05-23 21:13:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Shar'ri Atal wrote:
Good to hear of the refinements that are planned. Fix the genuine problems that exist with the new system but be confident that the new UI was a step in the right direction.

The new inventory UI is a huge improvement over the old one. It's a weird hybrid of the classic Windows explorer layout (tree on left, contents on right) with Mac OS spring loaded folders while dragging items. It works.

Now consider going one step further. Remove the Assets UI. Take the tabs from the Assets UI and refactor them as a popup in the inventory UI. By default you only show items that are within range as it is now.

Second, vertical space in the tree view is not at a premium. Make the row height taller and put a count of how many items each node contains there. This gives a quick visual indication that items are present and also that items have been successfully moved.

Third, don't display a dink (technical term that) or disclosure triangle if a node contains no children. It's lazy. Since you'll be showing a contents count anyway you'll be able to use the information as to whether there is any child items. If you're smart you don't need to worry about extra database access. Update a node's leaf status and item count when items are added or removed from the node. Memory is cheaper than walking through a tree of nodes.

Good luck with your crusade to improve the EVE UI.

Senjaz
(An HCI specialist)


Make the unified inventory BIGGER? are you ******* serious? Perhaps to you bear that wouldnt matter but when all i want is to quickly drop some ammo into a ship or refit a web into an eccm, theres absolutely no way any tweak to the new inventory will be as quick and labor efficient as the old one.

As for CCP being smart?

They cant even correctly order numbers as shown in the FW system contested status coloumb where contested systems go;
0.7%
1.4%
19.0%
2.1%
22.0%
etc..
Saiphas Cain
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#235 - 2012-05-23 21:14:45 UTC
While the trees make some things harder to do and others easier there are a few bits of accessibility I would like to see.

REMOTE INVENTORY CONTROLS
I can buy and sell things from a remote location with the proper skills, but I cannot perform other operations like repackaging and stacking so if I have items to add to a sale I have to cancel the sale... HOPE they stack properly with existing inventory, and then re-list. When they fail to stack on their own I have no way to do that without actually flying to that station making the ability to remote sell somewhat less useful than it should be.

UNIFIED WITH WHATNOW?
The tree is nice but doesn't seem to accomplish what I thought it was intended to do, which is give me a truly unified view of my galactic inventory. I Cannot take steps UP from where I am and browse down to inventory in other stations and locations.

Without that ability it's really little or no better than the old system. I'm willing to put up with the additional complexity if I could do those things but without them, it's a step backward for me. It takes me longer to do the same things I used to with no gain in flexibility.

one last thing...

YEA! I'M OCD! THAT'S WHY I'M HERE!
The ability to make certain inventories or stations secondary or temporarily hidden would be nice. I have things stashed places for rainy days. I know where they are, but until the time comes to use them ( every 3 months in that one station for the SOE epic for example ) they're just clutter.
Cryten Jones
Advantage Inc
The Matari Consortium
#236 - 2012-05-23 21:16:32 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Blake Armitage wrote:
"We’re going to allow renaming of all POS structures"
wait, what?! Stop making me want to redeploy a POS!

Thanks for addressing and quickly communicating about the upcoming changes.


(I've wanted to do this since forever, so getting to sneak this in makes me super happy Big smile)



Any chance we can have the distance restrictions removed from modules within a POS shield? Would make the POS owners life easier until we get the full revamp :-) Would also fix the 'things in the inventory that you can't reach' issues.


Also, is there any chance of getting more values added to the smart filters? I am thinking ME and PE level, runs remaining, unpacked items... that sort of thing.

Thanks :-)

-CJ
Endeavour Starfleet
#237 - 2012-05-23 21:19:18 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
So soundwave will "probably not" revert back to the old inventory system?

Well, then i will 'probably not' renew my subscription. You are just wasting it changing things for the worse anyway. Why would i waste more of my time playing this game when there are imbeciles making terrible design decisions (along with some good thankfully), quarter after quarter with very little interest in justifying it.

Like the overview locking for example is hideous and is still in game, i landed on an acceleration gate the other day, locked up the gate and 2 allies before i managed to start locking the actual war target. No joke.

Last time you guys lost a quarter of your staff, tbh im beginning to think there might eventually be more in that pipeline if you keep breaking things that wernt broken instead fixing what is.


Can I Haz....................Nahhh.. I don't think I want your stuff. Wont much much value anyway.
Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
#238 - 2012-05-23 21:19:40 UTC
Persistence is the most important one for me. The game is nearto unplayable until this is fixed.
Pierru
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#239 - 2012-05-23 21:27:04 UTC
In my opinion, the new Inventory System is CRAP. Took me only 1 minute to figure out. I will give some reasons.

1) Tree view. Navigating the POS/Station containers is OK. Not good at all if you need to transfer items between those containers.

2) One thing is POS/Station hangars/containers. Very different is ship containers. Ship cargohold and wreck "cargohold" should not merge in one "inventory" big window. Drag and drop between separate windows is a must in order to minimize "click fest". Also even with clicks is very confusing.

3) I know "hard core" players never do Indy stuff or Loot stuff. But I didnt knew that CCP devs also never do it. Reversing, Inventing and makings stuff never was easy but now is a real boring and confusing clickfest nightmare.

4) Its me or i am the only one experiencing some kind of strange lag when interacting with my stuff?

5) I have a question for any CCP DEV: Why fix something that is not broken? Why dont use those valuable CCP resources to fix other important issues? Were are the "Current Various Forum Threads" that CCP Soundwave is talking about?

Maybe you CCP can:

1) Do it Incarna style: "Captain Inventory is here to stay. Period", but put a "Old Inventory style" checkbox option.

2) Almost fix it.: separate windows for Ship Cargohold, for Wreck Cargohold and (yes, I do Indy) for POS´s Labs and Arrays.

3) Or you can negate the problems, negate the outcry. Ignore the Indy player base. Ban protesters. Do nothing. Incarna style.

I wish they will never "Fix" Wormholes Roll
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
#240 - 2012-05-23 21:34:18 UTC
Can we get rid of the 3000m interaction limit when dragging things between structures?