Missions & Complexes

so the million dollar question, will CCP do anything after all this feedback?

Perhaps I should have been a little clearer, you cannot expect CCP to rely solely on a source of information that is so blatantly biased. As highlighted by posters like DarthNefarius my point is quite valid:



Other incursion runners have been considerably more objective, and I have agreed with their points as can be seen in a number of my posts:



I've also agreed on the current imbalance between the rewards for low sec and null sec incursions, which were even pre-nerf rarely worthwhile for the extra effort required. Now that even more logistical effort is required to run them they are to my knowledge more or less dead.



What exactly is your point? In my time in Eve I've done a considerable range of PvE activities including exploration, farming sanctums, mission running, c1-c4 wormholes, station trading and yes, there was a time when I dual boxed incursions.

My point was not that I am specifically a wormhole runner, I am not. My point was that the suggested payout increase would render incursions many, many times higher value than a different PvE activity in considerably more dangerous space.

Are you comparing High Sec Incursions with wormholes? Remove CONCORD from Incursion systems in High Sec and you'll begin to have an argument, otherwise that's just stupid.

You want mad ISK? You need to accept mad (or at least some) risk.

There is zero risk in running Incursions outside of suicide ganking or fleet infiltration both of which can easily be avoided.

I live in whs. It used to be so much more profitable than it is now due to market. Therefore, I must whine until everyone who's not me is suitably nerfed.

You do realize that Incursions is the only significant t3 sink in game, right? SP loss alone is enough to keep pvp t3 sink small, suicide gank is insignificant on the large scheme of things. Did you not notice the reversal of t3 price drop as incursions ramped up, and market reactions following the vanguard nerf? The mark of a moron = It's okay to screw myself, so long as it also screw others.

Nope Xorv does not advocte removeing Concord nor have a running meme about it https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1062147#post1062147

Here's a quote from the above link:
"1) Remove CONCORD "

I am replying only to the thread and consequentially some of the peers I run incursions with. I am an incursion FC and have done it all. SO, when it comes to experience there's really not much else to be had. Now, with my credibility out of the way (?) I have to suggest the the nerf to incursions has been on the agenda for a while now and it has caused lot's of different player to rage, ****, and whine in the ugliest of manners. 0.0 folks, the majority of them anyway, were angry because they thought thet isk making encroached on the market and reward/risk factors. This also applies to a vast majority of the Worm hole community.

What I don't understand is that.. a lot of 0.0 guys are making tons of money and are controlling the market. Incursion runners are a minutely small community in comparison to the vast legions in null space. It can be argued that previous to the patch we were making too much money in the time it was being made. Yes, I can agree with that to a degree, but to be fair there was a lot of risk associated with this gain. Yes, people choose to bring their shiny ships out and risk them, but.... but they also sacrificed countless hours and time experimenting to get those ships, the knowledge required to run the sites efficiently, and the ISK per hour level we reached. It's not as if it were handed to us. We simply improved on the initial formula. Also, it was inevitable that once we had a solid formula people were going to start grinding the high sec incursions and make a lot of isk, but nothing in comparison to what the large 0.0 sov holding alliances have. They (0.0 folks) have claimed that we as incursion runners were ruining the market. Guess what... we were always too small of a community to have a significant impact on the market. Yes, we make good money, but we are hardly a moving fraction when it comes to EVE's economy.

While the nerfs stood to rectify the outrageous blitzing that was happening, the incursion bar timer was definitely the straw that broke the camels back. We could have all dealt with the VG nerf and randomization seen throughout the sites, but to do so when the incursion bar is lingering in the most haunting of manners is... insanity. WE MAKE LESS MONEY THAN MISSION RUNNERS WITH the high influence. If a site takes 40 people an hour or more to finish and make 30 million isk... this is simply terribly under-balanced. CCP you brought incursions here to bring people together and get us working together whether we be in high-sec, low, or null. Well, with all the nerfs combined.. we are surely dwindling and many folks have quit because of the disgusting amount of time it takes to get the incursion bar down to sane levels in order to mitigate the losses in the already dangerous sites we frequent. CCP if you want this community to thrive and bring the players together, make it so it's viable to run these sites. A lot of us like doing incursion, but not when it's... like ... work. Translation - They have become a tedious, stressful task, and fun has almost been thrown out the window. My suggestion? Consider that it takes a fair amount of effort to run these sites - So, reward us by making it so we can run them efficiently since our blitzing abilities have already been torn asunder. We can't make the crazy is we used to, just give us the ability to run them efficiently (like anyone else who runs PVE sites in general has the ability to) and I'm sure there will be far less complaining to be logged.

You forgot the low sec community. Low sec, null sec and wormhole players were all a bit pissed at the fact that they could make more ISK in high sec with less risk than they could in their respective home space.


Well this is kind of the point, you were a minutely small community that was generating a third of the income of the bounties from high sec, low sec and null sec combined. And you were doing it in high sec.


When I first ran incursions I brought along a very shiny webbing loki, I could afford this because as an older player I have pretty much unlimited resources. I was instantly invited instantly to a nice shiny fleet filled with pirate faction battle ships, and I must confess I was a bit nervous.

I didn't bother to tell them I'd never run incursions before, and they didn't even notice. That is how steep the learning curve is. Within a few days I was capable of taking over fleets whenever an FC had to leave, so the fleets didn't fall apart and we could keep going.

This is valid on two points:

1) Incursions were not difficult, and the "shiny" ships were never really at risk. I saw a few ships die in my time running incursions, but it was rare and usually down to a Leeroy (Or, in one particularly amusing case an active fit Tengu in a HQ who had posted a fake fit).

2) They were not difficult to run, or to FC. Sure there were a few tricks that could get you even higher ISK/hour, but they weren't really necessary unless you were competing for a site. Average fleets could run sites without even having an FC, everyone knows what to do anyway.

3) The people who "sacrificed countless hours and time experimenting" were not the people who came in and benefited from it. I never lost a ship due to experimenting in incursions, I came in after they'd been "solved" and farmed the hell out of them. Many others were the same.


I actually agree with you on the incursion bar, it doesn't seem to scale very well when you take into account that the number of people running the incursion at any one time is variable.

That said, please do not pretend you are too small a community to have a significant impact on anything. You were contributing 9 trillion ISK to the economy. Whilst not as much as the amount added via bounties, for the size of your community that is a terrifying amount of ISK.

well said, you pointed out everything I wanted to say, small community accounts for 1/3 of bounty is freaking scary

Wait so what your saying, we chose to risk our multi billion ships to get the task done sooner in highsec with a fair amount of risk involved, and the guys in wormholes don't invest into mods and their isk/h ratio is sucky then ours in highsec?
Well i still think their isk/h would improve by at least 20-30% if they were using shiny ships, but all they used are rr tengus without any faction mods (most of them at least). Im sure a normal pug fleet which would only use t2 modules would surely have a harder time completing sites then the one thats faction fitted.

Not really a comparison :/

Besides, not to mention they are safest in their wormholes..