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Warfare & Tactics

 
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More FW changes on SiSi

First post
Author
Amadeus3
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#521 - 2012-05-09 18:05:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Amadeus3
"Please note such LP is split for all eligible members that meet all capture criteria; as such, 2 Amarr enlisted pilots capturing a Minor site would only receive 5,000 LPs each."

Wont this create a load of 'leech' alts that jump into plexes that other Players have nearly finished before moving onto the next?

Will the reward be spit equally between a player who has completed 99% of the plex with a player who comes in for the last 1%?

Some clarification is needed here I think
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
#522 - 2012-05-09 18:30:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Veshta Yoshida
So the blog has finally arrived .. and dare I say it .. "I told you so".

Mistress Doom'n'Gloom takes the win .. no contest.

*Sadness*
Amadeus3 wrote:
..Some clarification is needed here I think

Willing to bet good money on CCP using the VP mechanic to assign LP, we have been sharing VP (Fluffy Useless Ranks) by holding timers until all were in .. so if you are on grid when plex caps you get equal share LP.

It will not however create some new leech player as they tend to die horribly in friendly fire accidents "gun went off on its own, honest! .. all 200 times!!".
But with no changes whatsoever to plexes/NPCs you will have literally unlimited LP available if you are in one of the easy-plex militias so who cares if some random guy pokes his head in (and gets it shot off) once in a while?
Ahazu Sagam
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#523 - 2012-05-09 18:35:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Ahazu Sagam
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:


I know it, CCP is trolling us. And the most important question's are still not answered:

Will sov stay sov or will occupancy becomme sov?

CCP Ytterbium: We won't reset anything. Occupancy will be directly translated into Sovereignty in FW systems.

What happens if no one upgrades the sytem (i know it's unlikely with this nice benefits Twisted), will plexing still give LP?

At least capturing a sytem will mean somthing than, cause we can upgrade them, no to mention preventing our enemy's from docking. But everything is fine everybody will like the extra production slot or the 10% reduced market taxes; everything we do in low sec is trading and producing that much that all station slots are used.

[edit]: found the awnser's thx to Dirk Smacker
Dirk Smacker
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#524 - 2012-05-09 18:36:28 UTC
Amadeus3 wrote:
"Please note such LP is split for all eligible members that meet all capture criteria; as such, 2 Amarr enlisted pilots capturing a Minor site would only receive 5,000 LPs each."

Wont this create a load of 'leech' alts that jump into plexes that other [layers have nearly finished before moving onto the next?

Will the reward be spit equally between a player who has completed 99% of the plex with a player who comes in for the last 1%?

Some clarification is needed here I think


If it had anything to do with who ran the button, you would have a hard time getting close range ships to guard the warp-in.

There was talk of only giving it to the one who started running the timer. That would have been awful.

Of course there's the leaching thing, but that provides opportunities for the enemy to camp the warp-in. Twisted

I guess once you have a signature, you cannot have a blank one.

BolsterBomb
POS Party
Ember Sands
#525 - 2012-05-09 18:41:25 UTC
Ahazu Sagam wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:


I know it, CCP is trolling us. And the most important question's are still not answered:

Will sov stay sov or will occupancy becomme sov?

What happens if no one upgrades the sytem (i know it unlikely with this nice benefits), will plexing still give LP?

At least capturing a sytem will mean somthing than, cause we can upgrade them, no to mention preventing our enemy's from docking. But everything is fine everybody will like the extra production slot or the 10% reduced market taxes; everything we do in low sec is trading and producing that much that all station slots are used.

I know there is a NDA but can u get awnser for us hans.



Ill try not to troll you too bad for this post


Please read the blog again:

Sovereignty control (system control) does not impact the LP rewards the WAR ZONE Control does. Taking sovereignty /upgrading sovereignty increase war zone control. Was the war zone control increases so does the rewards. From what the blog said the hub upgrades, etc improve station services.

Plexing gives LP
Kills Give LP
and finally missions will give LP

From the sounds of it fw missions will be greatly reduced for LP payout, they want people to fight not farm.

Their reasoning for allowing Neuts come in is spot on unless you want to have your own FW marketeers seeding lowsec (which I think occurs already)

The good this they did say is that this will be moitored and may change if it doesnt work the way they intend it to.

WHoever OWNS the system now will keep control (no sov reset), so IE if Rakapas is a Gallente captured system the Gallente will control it on patch day and you will be locked out of the station if your a Cal.

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation

Dirk Smacker
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#526 - 2012-05-09 18:42:15 UTC
Ahazu Sagam wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:


I know it, CCP is trolling us. And the most important question's are still not answered:

Will sov stay sov or will occupancy becomme sov?

What happens if no one upgrades the sytem (i know it's unlikely with this nice benefits Twisted), will plexing still give LP?

At least capturing a sytem will mean somthing than, cause we can upgrade them, no to mention preventing our enemy's from docking. But everything is fine everybody will like the extra production slot or the 10% reduced market taxes; everything we do in low sec is trading and producing that much that all station slots are used.

I know there is a NDA but can u get awnser for us hans.

Read the comments thread to the dev blog.

- No reset.

- LP payout is 10k minor, 17.5k medium, 25k major, 30k major stronghold, 40k infrastructure hub (bunker). This is shared equally by all those eligible (i.e. in the plex when it is capped).

- If you have LP upgrades in the I-Hub, half the amount of LP rewarded through plexing by the attackers gets deducted from the I-Hub.

I guess once you have a signature, you cannot have a blank one.

Ahazu Sagam
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#527 - 2012-05-09 19:00:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Ahazu Sagam
BolsterBomb wrote:


Please read the blog again:

Sovereignty control (system control) does not impact the LP rewards the WAR ZONE Control does. Taking sovereignty /upgrading sovereignty increase war zone control. Was the war zone control increases so does the rewards. From what the blog said the hub upgrades, etc improve station services.
.


You know what the "improved" station services are?! Thats the troll. Why should you upgrade your system? To get more empty production slots? Or do u want a reduced market tax that saves maybe 1 mil while u pay much more in LP?
BolsterBomb
POS Party
Ember Sands
#528 - 2012-05-09 19:19:14 UTC
Ahazu Sagam wrote:
BolsterBomb wrote:


Please read the blog again:

Sovereignty control (system control) does not impact the LP rewards the WAR ZONE Control does. Taking sovereignty /upgrading sovereignty increase war zone control. Was the war zone control increases so does the rewards. From what the blog said the hub upgrades, etc improve station services.
.


You know what the "improved" station services are?! Thats the troll. Why should you upgrade your system? To get more empty production slots? Or do u want a reduced market tax that saves maybe 1 mil while u pay much more in LP?



Because in order to get faster warzone control or increase it past a certain point you need system upgrades.

War Zone Control is the thing that dictates the LP rewards from my understanding

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation

Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#529 - 2012-05-09 20:07:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
Just gonna say told yea so on the reset.. lol just trolling, but CCP has never reset null sec after changes so there really should have been no reasonable expectation that it would happen for FW.

As far as the LP for plexing.. It's obviously not very well thought out.

It encourages pilots to fly solo while capturing and not work as a team. In fact I can see it know, there will be arguments among people in their own Militia about guys stealing friendly LPs. Added to this there is no way to stop alts in your own Militia from farming guys LP's that are actually doing the work.

If Gals are taking Caldari systems and we don't happen to have numbers to stop them, then the best way to harass them is to use alts in Gal Militia to steal the LP's they get from running the plexes. Which of course I'm sure they will do the same as they already have more alts in Caldari Militia to farm Missions/Spy than Caldri has active players.. (ok maybe not that many but close)

While there is a mechanic in place to discourage blobbing of plexing on the attacking side. (split LP) there is no mechanic to discourage the blobing on the defending side. If we take out a small gang of 2 or 3 guys to attack Gal sites so we still make a decent amount of LPs in the process there is nothing to encourage the opposing side fight us with even numbers, being they get no LP for defending.

On the docking issues I wont beat a dead horse but honestly as a CEO of a decent sized FW corp that is growing daily.. I see this as a potential reason to eventually pull our corp out of FW.

The direction CCP is taking this by cutting mission rewards/splitting LP's ect is just giving everything to the side that happens to be winning "NOW". FW has always been a back and forth because over time each side of any war front would have it's ups and downs. The key factor is there was ability for them to always come back.

With system flips times now going to be about 35 hours with "ZERO" opposition, it's going to make capturing systems as rare as unicorns in space. Meaning we are likely to see a big push on systems Now up til patch day then it's done. CCP is basically giving everything to the sides that happen to have upper hand at the moment and then creating a playing field to take it back that will require 10 times the effort to take back what was taken with very little effort.

This means which ever sides end the day with the upper hand on patch day will likely stay that way because corps on the losing side will just go do something else as what we get for our effort will not be worth the time needed to be invested.


Edit..

I just wanted to add that the Bulk of FW players that are active are really not interested in Sov Warfare. Some of us will plex to get fights, but I can tell you straight up I'm not gonna go orbit buttons when I can go out roaming instead and have a better chance I might come across targets to fight.

Plexing has always been a niche thing and most of us if we did it at all just did it for PVP. What CCP has done is listened to the minatory of vocal forum complainers that wanted plexing to matter, so now the rest of us get stuck with Null sec lite.

We get all the boring grind with almost none of the benefits. Just because we don't have to grind through millions of HP of structures doesn't mean FW's new sov system isn't going to amount to anything more than a grind.. I built a corp in FW because it was a decent place to get access to pilots looking for PVP as well as lots of PVP opportunity with added bonus of having a place they could easily make ISK to support their losses.

With these new changes, if we want to stay in FW we are forced to do Sov warfare with very little rewards. What is the reason to not go to NPC null sec or just become pirates again?
BolsterBomb
POS Party
Ember Sands
#530 - 2012-05-09 20:36:12 UTC  |  Edited by: BolsterBomb
I disagree Mutinin,

1) If you want to plex / pay for / not play on your primary to put an fw alt in with the other blobs, fine you earned it. If you really are that bored have at it.

2) Makes sense for the defensive plex (dont worry about blob) why should you penalize people for defending their system?

3) You forgot about all those kills that will add in with the pelx capturing

4) We get paid to fight "hoo raaah drill sargent!"

5) Time for the corps to come together and populate 2-3 systems and defend it till the death. Again IMO its not about stringing out 1-2 ships over 20 systems. (again I understand the vie I just disagree)

6) Remember how we talked about blob warefare will not work with these changes, I stand by that we will see multi hit-and run coordinated attacks now.

7)LP split, what else could they do for this? They have to do something and this is the only logical way if implementing it.


8) Im really excited


edit because of mutin's edit

9) Most people didnt plex because it didnt matter. You cant say that it will stay the same when now it matters. Ill plex now.

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation

Neo Gabriel
Percussive Diplomacy
#531 - 2012-05-09 20:39:47 UTC
ALRIGHT IT IS DONE FULL ****** MODE ENGAGED

ITS SO GREAT TO KNOW THAT CCP REYARDED DEVS WITH NO CLUE ABOUT SOMETHING DECIDE YET AGAIN TO CCPEE ON ANOTHER GAME NICHE WITHOUT ANY THOUGHT INTO THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR ACTIONS

STATION LOCKOUT MEANS THAT -10 PILOTS THAT LOSE THEIR STATIONS WILL HAVE TO QUIT FW OR MOVE 20 JUMPS TO THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE

YOU KNOW WHAT, I AM NOT GOING TO EXPLAIN WHY THIS IS GOING TO BE THE FINAL NAIL ON THE FW COFFIN.

WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN 3 MONTHS IS THERE WILL ONLY BE 2 MILITIAS LEFT AND THE LOSING SIDES WILL NEVER RECOVER

>>>WHY HOW COULD THEY, AT THEIR WORST THIER LP REWARDS WILL COST 4X AS MUCH, THEY CANT DOCK ANYWHERE IN LOWSEC, THEY CANT RETREIVE THEIR SHIPS/ITEMS/REPAIR/RELOAD... WHO IN THEIR RIGHT FUQUING MIND WOULD STAY ANCHORED BY SUCH RESTRICTIONS???????????

>>>SPECIALLY WHEN A MUCH SIMPLER SOLUTION IS AVAILABLE: ---QUIT FW--- AND BEHOLD, YOU ARE FREE AGAIN!

LONG LIVE LOWSEC,
LONG LIVE THE FEDERATION (as long as until my home stations are not locked out)
LONG LIVE -10,

HERE COMES INFERO, HERALDING A NEW AGE OF LOWSEC PIRACY
BolsterBomb
POS Party
Ember Sands
#532 - 2012-05-09 20:43:27 UTC
Neo Gabriel wrote:
ALRIGHT IT IS DONE FULL ****** MODE ENGAGED

ITS SO GREAT TO KNOW THAT CCP REYARDED DEVS WITH NO CLUE ABOUT SOMETHING DECIDE YET AGAIN TO CCPEE ON ANOTHER GAME NICHE WITHOUT ANY THOUGHT INTO THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR ACTIONS

STATION LOCKOUT MEANS THAT -10 PILOTS THAT LOSE THEIR STATIONS WILL HAVE TO QUIT FW OR MOVE 20 JUMPS TO THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE

YOU KNOW WHAT, I AM NOT GOING TO EXPLAIN WHY THIS IS GOING TO BE THE FINAL NAIL ON THE FW COFFIN.

WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN 3 MONTHS IS THERE WILL ONLY BE 2 MILITIAS LEFT AND THE LOSING SIDES WILL NEVER RECOVER

>>>WHY HOW COULD THEY, AT THEIR WORST THIER LP REWARDS WILL COST 4X AS MUCH, THEY CANT DOCK ANYWHERE IN LOWSEC, THEY CANT RETREIVE THEIR SHIPS/ITEMS/REPAIR/RELOAD... WHO IN THEIR RIGHT FUQUING MIND WOULD STAY ANCHORED BY SUCH RESTRICTIONS???????????

>>>SPECIALLY WHEN A MUCH SIMPLER SOLUTION IS AVAILABLE: ---QUIT FW--- AND BEHOLD, YOU ARE FREE AGAIN!

LONG LIVE LOWSEC,
LONG LIVE THE FEDERATION (as long as until my home stations are not locked out)
LONG LIVE -10,

HERE COMES INFERO, HERALDING A NEW AGE OF LOWSEC PIRACY



BECAUSE MY CAPS LOCK KEY GOT STUCK RIGHT?

Not everyone is a pie in militia and there are actually very few corps that are militia that are -10. Slapd went sole pirate and then joined fw again? If you were so pie hungry why did you come back to fw. You cant make a valid point when your own logic you disobey.

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation

Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#533 - 2012-05-09 20:47:12 UTC
Yeah - the most important part is the warzone control it seems. Will make LP store prices 4x cheaper or more expensive than they currently are...

That is a pretty good carrot and stick.

I still don't agree with the neutral docking thing, but frankly I'm excited about the rest. I will keep an open mind. They obviously put a lot of work into this. If it sucks, they will change it.

And Neo - the caps lock button. Sheesh.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
It Burns When I'm PvPing
#534 - 2012-05-09 21:45:32 UTC
"First, the offer requirements in the respective faction LP store will decrease. As such, at the lowest tier, LP store offers will be 4x times more expensive as they are now, while at the highest tier, they will be 4 times as cheap. This only applies to ISK and LP requirements for offers, not tags or items. It also only counts for the 4 Factional Warfare militia LP stores; no other corporation will be affected."


I think I must have this wrong.

A navy micro auxillary power core now cost 1500 lp.

If I am fighting for a losing faction and therefore have the lowest tier it will be 4xs more expensive or 6000 lp.

If I am fighting for the winning faction and therefore have the highest tier it be "4xs as cheap" or 375 lp.

If that is correct then for the majority of items in the lp store the winning side effectively gets 16xs the lp for a pvp kill.

The losing side would get effectively 1/16 the lp for a pvp kill with respect to the shared items.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#535 - 2012-05-09 22:50:53 UTC  |  Edited by: RougeOperator
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:



Well its clear that CCP wants to basically kill FW. The goal being FW light.

I could put up with most of the other not well thought out and implemented stuff. But the station lockout is a deal breaker.

Maybe its just me but I tend to think the goal should be to make gameplay interesting and fun. That is not what the road ccp wants to go down in seems. They are in Punishment mindset and more high entry barriers.

Account canceled. Luckily i only paid 3 months in this time instead a year like last time. Was a wise move.

I dont even have the will to log in anymore.

CCP game design is to apply anchors to players instead of wings.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **

X Gallentius
Black Eagle5
Villore Accords
#536 - 2012-05-09 22:52:15 UTC
Cearain wrote:


If that is correct then for the majority of items in the lp store the winning side effectively gets 16xs the lp for a pvp kill.

The losing side would get effectively 1/16 the lp for a pvp kill with respect to the shared items.

I'm glad I'm on the winning side. We will gladly accept your surrender and will take you into our militia if you agree to put down your arms and farm in peace.
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#537 - 2012-05-09 23:04:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobiaz
The new system service bonuses are so useless it's hilarious.

At level 5:

  • 50% cost reduction of clones. Looks nice, but there really aren't that many medical services in FW zones and they aren't really spread out sensibly either.
  • 50% reduction in market and contract fees. With all the reductions from skills and standings those fees are already close to neglible. And it's not like the FW systems located in low-sec will ever grow into a serious market hub.
  • 5 more industry and science slots. As if the low sec industry slots are 100% occupied. Even in hubs, queues generally only take a few days to clear, and 5 more slots won't matter much there either. The science slots are a bit more useful, but it is still in a low-sec station.


Pathetic.

How about increasing all market fees substantially so FW reductions actually make a difference? How about making the benefits FW-only or at least require a good standing? How about taking a good look at the ridiculous distribution of stations and services, totally randomly generated over nine years ago and never adjusted or balanced. How about making the renting cost of industry and science slots depend on the local demand, so they become an actual price-factor so the production in empire, now mostly within a few jumps of Jita, will have to spread out, perhaps looking for the FW-benefits.

The problem with FW benefits is not that they are too meager, it's that the rest of the pilots in empire already have it very easy with negligible station fees and all the service capacity they require in the safety of high-sec, far away from insecure FW-space.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!

SigmaPi
Space Men
#538 - 2012-05-09 23:06:38 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:

...

Maybe its just me but I tend to think the goal should be to make gameplay interesting and fun. That is not what the road ccp wants to go down in seems. They are in Punishment mindset and more high entry barriers.

...


The logistics involved with invading hostile space are some of the only really enjoyable aspects about nullsec. It's a damn challenge (as well it should be) and I'm honestly looking forward to it. Right now you just **** around all over the place with no care in the world, and now you actually have to consider where you're going and what you're doing? I guess I don't know 100% how I feel about the lock out, but I'm sure as hell gonna give it a try instead of ragequitting.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle5
Villore Accords
#539 - 2012-05-09 23:10:10 UTC
Tobiaz wrote:
. The science slots are a bit more useful...
for neutrals to farm.... Can't believe they are allowing neutrals to siphon off rewards.
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#540 - 2012-05-09 23:13:29 UTC  |  Edited by: RougeOperator
SigmaPi wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:

...

Maybe its just me but I tend to think the goal should be to make gameplay interesting and fun. That is not what the road ccp wants to go down in seems. They are in Punishment mindset and more high entry barriers.

...


The logistics involved with invading hostile space are some of the only really enjoyable aspects about nullsec. It's a damn challenge (as well it should be) and I'm honestly looking forward to it. Right now you just **** around all over the place with no care in the world, and now you actually have to consider where you're going and what you're doing? I guess I don't know 100% how I feel about the lock out, but I'm sure as hell gonna give it a try instead of ragequitting.



It should not go live until people have tested it thoroughly on sisi sigma. But they are steamrolling this crap out without much testing.

Once something is implemented its hard to take it back. Thats the problem.

Also I went to FW cause of the fact i can just log in gets some fights and then take a break. I dont want it to be like null sec or have to work at doing things like null sec. Thats not why i joined FW.

IF i wanted nullsec gameplay i would be in nullsec.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **