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Warfare & Tactics

 
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More FW changes on SiSi

First post
Author
Lord Azeroth
Perkone
Caldari State
#501 - 2012-05-09 01:36:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Azeroth
Never mind let's just see.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle5
Villore Accords
#502 - 2012-05-09 02:08:28 UTC
BolsterBomb wrote:
This isnt the rule though its the exception. I dont disagree with the tactic I am just saying its the exception to the rule, most fights you're not going to warp of repair and come back. I dont disagree it has happend, Ive been in battles where it has happend and I see it happening more so in plex fights BUT I just dont see it as an every day game breaker.

Dude you don't want to know how many ships I have spread all over both FW zones. It's a gamebreaker w.r.t system occupancy. Nobody is going to be able to take a system (with a station) more than one jump away from a friendly station if there is even a little bit of resistance. Taking Rakapas was huge, btw. Y'all better take it back soon, or pray the CCP lords reset the FW zone.

RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#503 - 2012-05-09 02:09:34 UTC  |  Edited by: RougeOperator
Mutnin wrote:
Any game mechanic that makes it harder to operate under that mechanic but easier to leave is a flawed game mechanic. Why should I place my corp at a disadvantage to pirates that can dock in the stations I can't?



This right here is a major flaw with docking restrictions, crap.

This whole thing is not very well thought out.

It needs to be put back on the drawing board and something else thought up.


I will never be in the PUNISHMENT IS INCENTIVE CAMP. Its not, you cant incentive anything with punishment. You make the rewards worth it instead. Are we really talking about consequences here or are we talking about punishment.


They are basically going to turn FW into a second job. Null sec light. Which is bull.


I mean rather then making us want to run plexs cause they are fun. Instead they are saying run plexs or else.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **

X Gallentius
Black Eagle5
Villore Accords
#504 - 2012-05-09 02:12:04 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:
This whole thing is not very well thought out.
It was very well thought out on the forums months ago.
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#505 - 2012-05-09 02:13:24 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:
This whole thing is not very well thought out.
It was very well thought out on the forums months ago.



You have amazing low standards for what is well thought out then.

This comes off as RP fluff more then good gameplay mechanics.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **

X Gallentius
Black Eagle5
Villore Accords
#506 - 2012-05-09 02:21:18 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:
This whole thing is not very well thought out.
It was very well thought out on the forums months ago.
You have amazing low standards for what is well thought out then.
This comes off as RP fluff more then good gameplay mechanics.

Sorry, thought you were talking about station lockout. We concluded months ago that station lockout was stupid.
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#507 - 2012-05-09 02:27:33 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:

Sorry, thought you were talking about station lockout. We concluded months ago that station lockout was stupid.


If you read back through old forums topics there were loads of people that seemed to think for some reason that plexing should matter. Many complained about enemies docking in their stations..

In fact prior to you Gals deciding to start plexing 5 or 6 months ago it was often a common line from Gal general militia saying they didn't plex because it didn't mean anything.

Sadly, those whom wished for these changes seem to now have disappeared, and the rest of us get the result of the squeaky wheel getting the oil. CCP has just done what all those guys whom whined about plexing not mattering wanted.


Chimaira wolf
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#508 - 2012-05-09 02:32:06 UTC
Check your mail Hans fark
Julius Foederatus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#509 - 2012-05-09 05:20:40 UTC
Station lockouts would be fine if they would stop neutrals from being able to dock in the warzone as well, if their standings were low enough. If neutrals get to share the benefits of FW system upgrades, then they should share the penalties as well. Frankly I don't think CCP has the balls to do something like that so this will probably be easily gamed. I think it's a good idea in principle though.

But for christ's sake CCP, give us something actually worth upgrading a system for like cyno jammers.
Andiedeath
Konvict Cartel
Solyaris Chtonium
#510 - 2012-05-09 09:14:22 UTC
Roddy Mcrizzle wrote:
Well i can say this, If this BS goes ahead i will be leaving militia. I will get all the benefits of being in low sec, w/o penalties... I rarley run fw missions any more as there are too many carebears driving the lp value to nearly 0... I am sitting on over 3m LP and i have no desire to use it...

With all that said, I can stay in low sec same systems i use now. I can still hunt and kill the same people, i just wont sit on a plex timer and spin for 10 - 30 mins.

Truly this is going bring piracy back in force. As all the FW pilots are going to quite worrying about fw as a whole and just kill everything.


LOL. As I said to peeps above, might be worth doing some homework before commenting on something you haven't done in a while.

Director

Sefem Velox

INGAME CHANNEL: Sefem Public

Vordak Kallager
Goryn Clade
#511 - 2012-05-09 09:24:40 UTC
Chimaira wolf wrote:
Check your mail Hans fark


Hans needs some wife-time, he'll be back in a day or two, lol.

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.

Kade Jeekin
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
#512 - 2012-05-09 09:28:25 UTC
Julius Foederatus wrote:
Station lockouts would be fine if they would stop neutrals from being able to dock in the warzone as well, if their standings were low enough. If neutrals get to share the benefits of FW system upgrades, then they should share the penalties as well. Frankly I don't think CCP has the balls to do something like that so this will probably be easily gamed. I think it's a good idea in principle though.

But for christ's sake CCP, give us something actually worth upgrading a system for like cyno jammers.


Personally I didn't think that CCP had the balls to implement station lockout at all. So, there is hope that they'll ask neutral players also to HTFU and implement standings-based station access, expel opposing factions from empire hisec, and conquerable militia stations.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle5
Villore Accords
#513 - 2012-05-09 09:29:37 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Julius Foederatus wrote:
But for christ's sake CCP, give us something actually worth upgrading a system for like cyno jammers.
Only people in 0.0 are allowed cynojammers for sov upgrades. Only out there is it not game breaking. Apparently it's ok to get cut off from traveling with your supercap out there (where they were intended to be used), but it's not ok to get cut off from your traveling with your supercap through low sec (where they were not intended to operate).

BTW, the only way this expansion is deemed a success is if a bunch of corps/alliances outside of FW join up. Otherwise, it's just putinng in PITA mechanics for everybody who is already here. I don't see why anybody would want to join up under these new rules, but I guess I'm not the target audience for these changes.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
It Burns When I'm PvPing
#514 - 2012-05-09 11:53:37 UTC
Mutnin wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:

Sorry, thought you were talking about station lockout. We concluded months ago that station lockout was stupid.


If you read back through old forums topics there were loads of people that seemed to think for some reason that plexing should matter. Many complained about enemies docking in their stations..

In fact prior to you Gals deciding to start plexing 5 or 6 months ago it was often a common line from Gal general militia saying they didn't plex because it didn't mean anything.

Sadly, those whom wished for these changes seem to now have disappeared, and the rest of us get the result of the squeaky wheel getting the oil. CCP has just done what all those guys whom whined about plexing not mattering wanted.





Everyone wanted some consequences this is true.


The station lock out idea was also suggested by a few. After all it doesn't take much in the way of creativity to say "Hey lets just apply this null sec idea to faction war" Just like the idea that the side that is losing the faction war should have incursion style losses to to armor armor and shield resistances was proposed. Lots of stupid ideas that make it so the losing side is prevented from effectively continuing the fight were suggested. This is true.

However X Gallentius is correct that these proposals were routinely rejected due to the fact they are bad on many levels.


Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
It Burns When I'm PvPing
#515 - 2012-05-09 11:57:51 UTC
Lord Azeroth wrote:
Never mind let's just see.


As for people saying "lets just wait and see." This makes very little sense. I know how often I dock in enemy controled stations. It happens pretty much everytime I roam or even take damage from rats in plexes during a roam. I typically just keep roaming through enemy space until I either die or have to go and then dock up.

This will mean I can not play eve unless I can make sure I have that extra uninterrupted time set aside. I often will just sign on for a half hour and roam to find a system busy with wts and pop open a plex hoping for fight. Now I am going to have to go jumping several jumps back to and from base everytime. These sorts of roams will be very limitted or likely even non-existant. When I am with a gang I usually can not stay online for the entire roam before I have to quit for the night. So this change means I will need to leave the gang even earlier so I can go several jumps back to base. So for me, I know this means less eve.

These are the facts of my real life schedule. This is also one reason why I don't roam in sov null sec.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Kade Jeekin
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
#516 - 2012-05-09 12:10:33 UTC
Cearain wrote:
This will mean I can not play eve unless I can make sure I have that extra uninterrupted time set aside. I often will just sign on for a half hour and roam to find a system busy with wts and pop open a plex hoping for fight. Now I am going to have to go jumping several jumps back to and from base everytime. These sorts of roams will be very limitted or likely even non-existant. When I am with a gang I usually can not stay online for the entire roam before I have to quit for the night. So this change means I will need to leave the gang even earlier so I can go several jumps back to base. So for me, I know this means less eve.


Sorry I don't undestand this arguement. You don't have to dock-up before you log off.

Perhaps because I've RP'd the station lock-out concept myself as long as I've been playing FW that simply logging off in space seems natural.

There's plenty of options: POS, safe-spot logging, cloaking. I really don't understand your problem.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
It Burns When I'm PvPing
#517 - 2012-05-09 12:36:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Kade Jeekin wrote:
Cearain wrote:
This will mean I can not play eve unless I can make sure I have that extra uninterrupted time set aside. I often will just sign on for a half hour and roam to find a system busy with wts and pop open a plex hoping for fight. Now I am going to have to go jumping several jumps back to and from base everytime. These sorts of roams will be very limitted or likely even non-existant. When I am with a gang I usually can not stay online for the entire roam before I have to quit for the night. So this change means I will need to leave the gang even earlier so I can go several jumps back to base. So for me, I know this means less eve.


Sorry I don't undestand this arguement. You don't have to dock-up before you log off.

Perhaps because I've RP'd the station lock-out concept myself as long as I've been playing FW that simply logging off in space seems natural.

There's plenty of options: POS, safe-spot logging, cloaking. I really don't understand your problem.



You may be right about logging off. But I thought they changed the mechanics so your ship stays in space for longer if you are aggressed even by npcs. Is this the case? If I am wrong on this mechanic then this might be a good solution.

As for fitting cloaks on all my ships yeah I thought of that. I already posted about how I think this will be a almost a requirement for anyone who wants to roam deep in enemy space. But I think they are expensive (at least the tech 2 ones that help you do the mwd trick to get past gate camps) and they just needlessly take up a high slot that I would prefer to put somehting else in.


Edit to edit: Yes it appears that if you have aggression and log off you just sit there for until your 15 minute aggression timer runs. This applies to all ships not just capitals
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=165178#post165178

I am told by someone who lost a ship this also applies to aggression from rats. This is not true. it only applies to player aggression:

"After a player logs out, there is a check for player aggression every 15 minutes. If you have been aggressed, the timer extends for 15 minutes; if you have not been aggressed, you disappear as before. Note: this is only for player aggression and will not change what happens when you log off during fights against NPCs."

Logging off might have some limited value assuming you haven't been aggressed by anyone. In the last 15 minutes. I am not sure this will be much help. It seems that if you log off with say 5 minutes left on the timer you will actually sit in space for 15 minutes.

I don't know how the mechanics for npc aggression work. Do you log off immediately if you have npc aggression? Are the different timers clearly marked? So that if I fight someone pvp in a plex and then go on plexing will it show how much is left on the pvp timer?

As for your idea of putting up a pos in a system that you can can not hold. I guess i am drawing a blank. Why would you give your opponent a free pos full of ships to shoot in a system you can not hold?

I appreciate your help but these solutions are looking pretty bleak.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Ahazu Sagam
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#518 - 2012-05-09 13:36:14 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#519 - 2012-05-09 17:35:30 UTC
The long-awaited Dev Blog is up!!

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=28659

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Fleet Warpsujarento
Doomheim
#520 - 2012-05-09 17:37:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Fleet Warpsujarento
More FW changes on SiSi