Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Do players really use the mining frigs for any serious length of time?

Standby for longish answer. TL DR at end.


Rookie frig boost is much welcomed. Agree with the power ladder. The roles you're intending need to be defined before you can except player response. I'll make to following assumptions:

• Combat: the ability to brawl. Good balance between gang and tank
• Attack: Balance towards gank and offensive modules
• Bombardment: long range and/or high burst damage
• Support: E-war

Some remarks:

• Does bombardment mean that every race will get missile ship, T1 SB? Where is the variability in that?
• Is every race supposed to have one of each? Or more than one? The 5th frig would be a prober and the 6th a utility frig?
• Either all races get a mining frig and/or hauling frig (e.g. Magnate) or none do IMO
• Since you're changing everything a the frig level, you should also look at the modules those frigs are supposed to work with. I'll come back to that.
• I love the increased speeds across the line. It'll separate frig speeds from fast cruisers better. I'ld suggest to halving the MWD sig penalty at the module level rather than handing out role bonusses everytime a single class is looked at.

Are you considering the above ships all to be combat frigs? Given the roles described, some fit better in to attack or bombardment roles. (where I regard long range as bombardment). A combat frig, more than an attack frig should be able to duke it out. I'ld suggest a tanking bonus and a utility/other weaponsystem high slot to define a combat vessel.



I understand that you're trying to change the Tormentor into a beam or med pulse frig. The crazy high PWG is needed to fit beams or med pulses but the reality is that the PWG requirements on lasers especially on the frig level are crazy high. Rather than giving the Tormentor destroyer level of grid, reduce the grid need of lasers.

If the tormentor stays as prosposed, It will be able to outrifter the rifter. Think 200ac's in highs, prop/scram/web in mid and using all that grid for buffer in lows. (or 2 med shields in lulz fits) Alternatively it's more of a bombardment than a combat frigate.



Again the increased power grid. Same problem as above: 200ac's, a neut and a 400 in low. It's the grid/cap use of lasers that needs to be fixed, not the grid of the frigs that mount them. Moreover the removal of the cap use bonus and the nerfed cap means lasers are even more out of the question. Active tanking with no cap and grid for buffer will also lose its attraction (whereas a repper on a pun is commonplace and viable atm)

Considering your making all frigs fit into a role, you could give each class a role bonus.

Also it struck me that 4 out of 5 of these frigs have a damage bonus, this seem abit problematic when you have a gruppe of frigs designed to do more damage?

The person above made a really good post I suggest CCP reads it I pretty much agree with it all.

My previous posts were typed before this answer, but here are some more unasked opinions:

• IMO, The punisher has cap issues by just removing the cap use bonus.
• NOS should be main answer to neuting, followed by better capacitor. Utility high should support every frig that gets into small neut range. Some ships with a launcher slot could switch to a launcher for kiting builds.
• Only 5 frigs. Personally I'ld prefer to switch up entire classes at the same time. Moreover, popular ships should be a priority for Dev's, but I understand. 5 is better than none afterall!
• I'ld try to overhaul the remaining 3 mining frigs aswell AND overhaul the Procurer aswell. Lower the SP requirements, add some high slots and remove to ability to equip a strip miner instead relying on conventional mining lasers.
• I'ld change the Incursus back to an attack frigate. Make the Navitas a combat frig instead (with drones and 7.5% rep bonus it's a small Myrmidon)
• Good idea for the bombardment role as long range doesn't really exist for frigs.

Agreed. If the only difference between the Combat and Bombardment roles is turrets vs missiles then the roles needs to be reworked.

I like the changes and the discussion thus far, but please please do not do this piecemeal. Finish whatever it is that you have to do and then come back with the resources and focus fire this project.

The changes you are talking about making "for now" are just going to work to skew the market further and make the already obsolete hulls more-so. Further I expect it will be easier on you guys to not have to go back and change ships you've already released to fit in with the entire fleet yet to come. Save yourselves the grief of all the QQ my awesome sauce ship got nerfed and keep them all to play with until you get it right.

Any decent FC can tell you that you don't win the fight without the correct fleet composition and even with the perfect counter fleet you will lose by not focusing your efforts.

Please do not put this out half/quarter finished. Let it sit for the month or however long it takes to free up the resources and then knock it out. I like the CCP "it comes when it's finished" model so let's please stick to that.

Edit: Also you're telling us that the most fundamental game design portion of Eve is only getting worked on by One person?! That's absolutely absurd to continue on with and expect anything but mediocre results. No way am I bashing you or your abilities, it's just way too big of a responsibility and task for a single person to not miss something here or there. If you want to give us something, give us the ORE mining frigate/destroyer classes. That's a way more reasonably goal imo.

Rep bonus on a T1 frigate is useless.
Doubly so on an a blaster frigate.

The reason?
3 mids, 3 highs, & hybrids.

A hybrid ship thrives on two things; range control & capacitor.
3 highs means it can't fit a nos to use that rep, and 3 mids means it can't control range should you decide to inject.

Nevermind the fact that in most circumstances the frigate will get alphad through armor, or that it can't combat neuts when repping. Removing the ships falloff bonus makes it a Rocketless Tristan, which is crap.

Technically, if you spend enough isk you can make it perform just the same thanks to the 4 lows, but that's a terrible price to pay.
If you're worried about people abusing the falloff bonus, lower the CPU to somewhere in between what it used to be and where it is in this proposal. Problem solved.

There is truth in that statement, and that is one of the questions we asked ourselves as well when we came up with the classifications. They are mainly cosmetic at this point anyway and most likely going to change, but this indeed deserves further consideration. Glad we are having this discussion and getting your feedback before starting on the missile ships themselves .

You misundertood me. The 3 turret slots stay, it also gains 1, 2 or 3 launcher slots and a 4th high. The idea is to fit a nos in the 4th for close range setups or a launcher for kiting setups. The other launcher slots are there for weird stuff (3 launcher/1 neut e.g.)

Currently, the resistance bonuses are the only thing that make a Merlin worth flying. You're stripping those, and you're also replacing *2* launchers with *1* turret, nerfing what tiny amount of DPS the Merlin already had. Just admit you hate Caldari and be done with it

(edit: I see I'm late to the game, and the wisdom of the crowd has already made this point )