Jita Park Speakers Corner

In evolutionary psychology and in cognitive neuroscience, patience is studied as a decision-making problem, involving the choice of either a small reward in the short term, or a more valuable reward in the long term. When given a choice, all animals, humans included, are inclined to favour short term rewards over long term rewards. This is despite the often greater benefits associated with long term rewards.

In a 2005 study involving common marmosets and cottontop tamarins, animals of both species faced a self-control paradigm in which individuals chose between taking an immediate small reward and waiting a variable amount of time for a large reward. Under these conditions, marmosets waited significantly longer for food than tamarins. This difference cannot be explained by life history, social behaviour or brain size. It can, however, be explained by feeding ecology: marmosets rely on gum, a food product acquired by waiting for exudate to flow from trees, whereas tamarins feed on insects, a food product requiring impulsive action. Foraging ecology, therefore, may provide a selective pressure for the evolution of self-control.

I can see your point if The Mittani had run this past the CSM in the first place we wouldn't be here and here stinks. It would be nice to know the remaining CSM members had morals though.

Currently it just looks like that they can't deal with a crisis with out The Mittani.

I think Hans just ninja-compared Issler to a small marsupial. Cool.

I wasn't trying to make a statement about anyone here, I was simply meditating on the value of patience during times like this. I came across that anecdote and found it interesting.

Besides, monkeys are totally awesome. Especially little ones with pouches.

No, you're naive.

Calling for someones death and harrasing someone is totally different. He didn't say "Go round his house and kill him".

I agree, it wasn't right but you're taking on not just the entire of null sec but the larger gaming community. This sort of stuff happens all the time. You don't think just because this was the first time someone said to do this publicly its not been said 1000 times before? Some people just play EVE to make sure you have a bad day.

So what is you're reaction to people user the 'N' word in both comms and local all over nullsec? Putting porn links (and actual stuff that might offend) in chat?

Your little witch hunt and 5000 post threads may have unintended consequences for EVE.



It doesn't mean he isn't a massive troll does it? This witch hunt is not only ridiculous but utterly naive.

Everyone needs to step back here for a moment and understand that while group discussion is important, and teamwork necessary to work on behalf of the players to get things accomplished with CCP, the CSM at the end of the day is 14 individual human beings.

Those that want instant gratification regarding a big CSM statement are going to have to wait. Everyone needs to talk about it, and frankly not all of us have heard all sides of the story. This is EVE. Nothing it ever as it seems.

Personally, without having been at Fan Fest, without having ever spoken to The Wis, without knowing what the CSM / CCP involvement is in the Alliance presentation preparation, I'm just not comfortable coming out and waving a sword with righteous anger without having listened to the full story so I can assess what the problem here is, and think about how we can prevent it from happening again. CSM7 haven't even taken office yet, we're still getting set up.

I really appreciate those of you in this thread that have shown respect for the fact that this is all happening literally while many of the CSM7 members are in planes travelling. Please give everyone a day or so to get home, get paperwork in, get into the conversation, and than we can get to work.

Its extremely premature to go doomsdaying about how we "can't deal with a crisis", and its certainly not fair to accuse those of us who want to handle this the right way as somehow lacking in morals.

No he basically did exactly that, he said find him and drive him to suicide. Your just quibbling semantics when the end result would have been similar had the community not gotten up in arms about it.

Its not funny. Its not excusable.



And FYI a witch hunt would imply we are trying to get an innocent person. I got news for you...Hes on tape clear as day.

Since when has Goonswarm ever been funny or excusable?

Come on this is sounding like some pretty pathetic wriggling legalize now. He called on his followers to troll the guy into suicide! It'd be like some church minister in the real world calling on the congregation to camp outside somebodies house with signs about how they and their family were going to hell! Its harrassment and you can't really claim it isn't.

Is it legally actionable in the real world? Probably not. And neither should it be.
But its certainly actionable within the terms of the game company's rules of conduct and certainly can be used as a brutal example of the leader of the csm not being able to be a good ambassador of the game to fellow players and the news media.

And it is going to have consequences on Alexander Gianturco's real life job prospects in the future believe me. I did a contract last year for a bank, had a background check done on my name that unearthed youtube video of me at Fanfest giving a presentation as an anarchist - and another one of me hitting some orcs with a rubber larp sword. "Whats this about?" (I was asked) made for an interesting conversation but ultimately not a problem with me getting the job. Imagine for a moment if I had a youtube video of me drunkenly calling on members of a MMO to troll some apparently depressed guy into suicide? - I'd have been booted out of the door in minutes.

And this is a problem now for Eve itself. I don't want my next background check to involve a question like "Oh you play that game where the drunken american's try to harrass people into suicide right?"



See thats exactly the argument that Aris Bakhtanians made about casual and persuasive sexism being core to the "fighting game community" in the recent cross assault event. http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2012/02/is-pervasive-sexism-holding-the-professional-fighting-game-community-back.ars

By arguing this stuff happens all the time and cannot be held to account you are making precisely the same claim Bakhtanias does and it really won't wash for a game universe like Eve that is trying to go forward and expand and attract new players. There isn't a place in this game for people that call on their followers to troll people into suicide on stage at fanfest.



I'll tell you right now. You come to Hek tonight where I'm going to be and start messing up local chat with racist/homophobic/hate language and I will petition you. If you keep doing it you will be banned under the terms of eula and tos. I have done this before and I will do it again because I don't believe this kind of behaviour is conducive to a healthy game environment for any of the players. Just because you have convinced yourself that this kind of vile stuff is the norm for whatever society you operate inside doesn't suddenly make it an acceptable part of the game. And this is really where Alexander Gianturco messed up big time - he was acting as if his organization had already "culturally assimilated" eve online and this stuff would be accepted by the populous. He was wrong.



If those "unintended consequences" are that we demonstrate to the gaming world at large that though Eve is an absolutely ruthless pvp game where you can lose all your possessions in an instant if you mess up it can still be a place where you will not be subjected to continuous out of character harrassment and urging to suicide then frankly ... good. If the consequence is that Alexander Gianturco is forced to resign and urges goons to quit the game then its on hilm really. But the best consequence would be he grows up a bit and realizes that he's welcome to remain in this game and game world by learning to differentiate between players and characters / people and spaceships and understands in the future that calling on people to be trolled into suicide is completely beyond the pale.



I listened to the mining barge guy on Eve Radio last night. He doesn't sound like a troll to me, just a guy who got targetted by goons and had a letter taken out of context for the purpose of a fanfest mocking by a drunken powertripper using his CSM chair fame and alliance panel seat as a bully pulpit to enhance harrassment.

Ok I will admit my statement was over the top, especially with you guys not even set up yet. as to "Cant deal with a crisis" that was an it appears which left by its self is what it looks like. Two threats totaling over 300 pages and no response, it would appear your real lives have gotten in the way, fair enough. We probably do expect to much from a voluntary non-paid group TBH, but with the only thing released at all from the CSM looking like a duck and cover you will get flak from nutters like me.

On the moral issue yes it would have been nice for a generic platitude like "Threats involving real life consequences are not acceptable." It says nothing about anyone's guilt or innocence, so if later you determine it was a CCP act for instance (I doubt it was but its an example) you can still say Real Life threats are not acceptable.

I actually started on this on the other foot, it was so tiny the first time I posted I believed it was nothing, and it really isn't anything ( I went to sleep on page 3 of the forum and woke up somewhere in the 60's) except now it is so large with so many media references to it, by the time the CSM puts out a statement this might and probably will have a life of its own.

So I too must apologize for my behavior towards the CSM, you are trying your hardest. I'm not in the CSM so I can't resign from it.

Edit: I could go on to say you managed to slam what I said pretty quickly, then go on a rant about one law for players and one for the CSM but I wont.

Thank you for saying something at all.