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Remove Attribute Implants..but replace them...

Author
Herold Oldtimer
State War Academy
Caldari State
#41 - 2012-04-28 10:59:02 UTC
HELLBOUNDMAN wrote:
This suggestion is very interesting.. So basically, you can either go 6% missiles or 3% missiles 3%shields...etc..etc... correct?
That's an interesting idea.


I was thinking to limit it to one thing, like shields only. But get a very good bonus to one thing, or a little bit bonus to 2 things could work aswell.

Other than that I guess we have too diferent perspectives on the matter. I still feel you are being too rewarding since, while it may be more or less a common ocurrence a player still have to invest time to get the implants. Wether it is the top hardwiring implants or attribute implants.

So I feel that taking away the implants, and their points would be "better", but also since this is a game about getting an edge over others. One should have that aswell. Boosters was just an example
HELLBOUNDMAN
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2012-04-28 21:38:43 UTC
Herold Oldtimer wrote:
HELLBOUNDMAN wrote:
This suggestion is very interesting.. So basically, you can either go 6% missiles or 3% missiles 3%shields...etc..etc... correct?
That's an interesting idea.


I was thinking to limit it to one thing, like shields only. But get a very good bonus to one thing, or a little bit bonus to 2 things could work aswell.

Other than that I guess we have too diferent perspectives on the matter. I still feel you are being too rewarding since, while it may be more or less a common ocurrence a player still have to invest time to get the implants. Wether it is the top hardwiring implants or attribute implants.

So I feel that taking away the implants, and their points would be "better", but also since this is a game about getting an edge over others. One should have that aswell. Boosters was just an example


I just feel that no player should be able to train faster than another unless they're remapped expecially when you factor the PLEX program because it gives wealthy players a distinct advantage over players who can't afford to Purchase PLEX's to sell on the market.

The reason I'm ok with them buying hardwire implants is because these don't make a good player.
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#43 - 2012-04-29 00:36:26 UTC
This topic is still stupid.

Everyone makes choices, the fewer that make a difference, the faster this game becomes "Who wants to spend more cash" Removing risk of losing implants,and the choices that goes with plugging them in means that fighting means even less then it already does. One of the interesting things about learning skills and learning implants was the balance of skill training to game play. where you placed the greater import, fighting now? or being much better later. It asked people to learn about the game and follow up on how its mechanics worked, learn how to use the ships so you didn't blow up all the time, what happened when you didn't pay attention. Learning the pain of getting podded with your first set of +4's that you couldn't immediately replace, made people learn caution and how to avoid getting blown up a second time. It also made getting jump clones (and the later annoyance of slower training times when you didn't want to risk the +4's understandable) because of the risks and rewards of different behaviors.

it was both good and bad that they removed learning skills. one fewer of the choices that was important to your development, but good because it meant that you didn't have to spend the first two weeks doing nothing.

Racing to the bottom in terms or which things you have to concentrate on and how it affects your game play doesnt make the game more interesting, it makes it less important to make good decisions, or even learning enough about the game to make a good decision. if you never get burned by anything how are you supposed to learn? or rather, what incentive do you have to learn. The sheer number of people that still have to get told to do tutorials is staggering. even now that CCP has done several revamps of the tutorials. before they were just a way of weeding out the stupids.

Because something has become standard doesn't mean that it an essential game function, the standardizations of the implants use is because it makes sense, the risks and the rewards remain the same. you still give up something for the benefits of pirate implant sets, that's part of their balance. and you lose the benefits if you do something dangerous.

What you are suggesting isnt game breaking, isnt somewhat understandable, but it is selfish and bad for the game. especially one that has time based skill training and not repetitive action skill training.

Why, why is the basic question should everyone train equally? Why should there be no modifier for decisions?

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

HELLBOUNDMAN
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2012-04-29 01:43:16 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:


Why, why is the basic question should everyone train equally? Why should there be no modifier for decisions?


Again I will say that everything you talked about being risk vs reward, learning, blah blah blah is all Nullified by the PLEX program.

Now that players are essentially able to exchange real world cash for in game currency it has taken away from the blah blah factors you mentioned.

What I mean by this is those players that do make good real world cash can use it to maintain +5 implants while others are unable to because those with real world cash flow can easily replace them so they don't learn all those lessons you suggested.

Then there's the factor of noobs. They don't have the benefit of using high grade implants right off the bat. While the skills required may not take that long, the amount of isk that's required for them is well beyond the typical noob's reach.

Now, when you factor that they can use real world currency to essentially buy ships, modules, hardwire implants, etc. etc. doesn't matter because every one of those is something in Eve that requires the pilot to have skill as a player or else they're just buying crap to get blown up.

Attribute implants are something that a player can purchase and have full advantage in there use without any skill on the part of the player, but yet gives them a significant advantage over players who can't out right buy implants all the time.

Like I said though, I'm typically carebearing around and get the full advantage of +5 implants with very little risk on them, so for me to say it's unfair to others, well, it's not someone who flys with or without them in low/null saying it.
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#45 - 2012-04-29 02:11:11 UTC
HELLBOUNDMAN wrote:


Now that players are essentially able to exchange real world cash for in game currency it has taken away from the blah blah factors you mentioned.

What I mean by this is those players that do make good real world cash can use it to maintain +5 implants while others are unable to because those with real world cash flow can easily replace them so they don't learn all those lessons you suggested.

Then there's the factor of noobs. They don't have the benefit of using high grade implants right off the bat. While the skills required may not take that long, the amount of isk that's required for them is well beyond the typical noob's reach.



this has always been true. plex was not CCP's first foray into the cash for isk realm. GTC has a long history.

what you are describing is people can buy implants all they want, these are the same people that will continue to lose them in stupid ways, and continue to pay cash for them again and again.

why this is where the rebalance should come from in not sure. because something is beyond the reach of someone who is just starting the game and is therefore in need of equality is an argument that holds no water. why cant noobs use titans? or deadspace fit vindicators to their full potential? why cant people just pay isk for sp?

because there is a game in the way.

throwing cash at the game doesnt make you understand it, and noobs, cal and do already purchase characters, be it through selling gtc on the forums and purchasing a character through isk, or through EULA breaking means, noobs using old characters has been in the game since , well mostly forever. this occurs in other games as well.

If learning implants are extraneous because of plex for isk, why aren't skill implants as well? or ships? or modules?

HELLBOUNDMAN wrote:

Attribute implants are something that a player can purchase and have full advantage in there use without any skill on the part of the player, but yet gives them a significant advantage over players who can't out right buy implants all the time.


a willingness to throw real money at a situation without changing behavior is not something that you can legislate away. the people that don't want to spend extra cash will always be at a disadvantage. Be it through ships, modules, or alts,

giving everyone +5 attributes jsut emans that they never have to make a decision (the people with more cash) about plugging in those pirate implants, over the +5's, they will get the benefit of both, and the isk they got for the cash will just go to always having the best implant sets they can. you have solved none of the inequalities that you were looking for.

If you cant afford the implants, maybe you are doing something wrong by risking them? just a though

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#46 - 2012-04-29 08:24:20 UTC
The solution to your problems are easy.

#1. Get a job and buy a plex. Then you won't be poor.

#2. Stop sucking and avoid dying. This requires you to plan your moves out accordingly and to play at a competent level.

HELLBOUNDMAN
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2012-05-05 18:20:56 UTC  |  Edited by: HELLBOUNDMAN
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
The solution to your problems are easy.

#1. Get a job and buy a plex. Then you won't be poor.

#2. Stop sucking and avoid dying. This requires you to plan your moves out accordingly and to play at a competent level.



1) I have a job, but I also have a life, a house, pets, and a family

2) In other words, be risk averse and never go anywhere that losing my POD is a high probability such as in null where bubbles exist.
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