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Wormholes

 
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CCP where's the Wormhole NERFS WHY ARE THEY GETTING OFF SCOT FREE?? BURN EVE RYONE equally

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Author
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#21 - 2012-04-15 08:20:17 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
You're exagerating. Blue loot isn't really worth that much considering all the costs associated with aquiring it and the number of players it gets spread around to in most cases. Good job.



Ummm it is injecting the same amount of ISK into EVE as Incursions are so no I am not exagerating. Same amount of players are doing them as incursions & WH palyers are making much more bank in ribbons on top of the blue loot.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Roime
Shiva Furnace
#22 - 2012-04-15 08:21:16 UTC
Yes, all bounties should be removed and turned into "blue loot", like tags that you need to sell to NPCs to receive any ISK .



.

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#23 - 2012-04-15 08:32:15 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:

You also have to consider time investment here. Wormholers probably have one of the highest time requirements placed on them with regard to managing their POSs, mining Gasses, Scanning, and running Sleeper sites which aren't exactly as common as missions or even remotely frequent spawners. Then there is just general time spent scouting and watching and spying/surveiling, which accounts for almost half of any wormholers time in game provided they actually make an effort and don't just show up to blow up Sleepers.

In all, it has a high burnout factor for anyone that actually invests in it actively in game, and you want to take away the one relatively guaranteed payout for all that time invested. Good job.


-OK I agree granted there is ALOT more investment time in WHs NO ARGUEMENT THERE!! But NULL SEC too has that investment time & they are getting screwed in the drone regions... why are WH residents being exempted from the need to reduce inflation ( is Hilmar getting handy's from all yous on the sly? :)
-Believe it or not Incursions have a big BURN OUT FACTOR TOO.
- Remeber not all incursions are HI SEC incursions & especially lo sec incursions should not be seeing these nerfs too
-Why are WH residents not participating in the reduction of ISK faucets?!?!?! again: ... why are WH residents being exempted from the need to reduce inflation ( is Hilmar getting handy's from all yous on the sly? :)
- I STILL HOLD THAT : The WH peeps have been sheltered too long though IMHO they got thier game down now & the ISK infusions are unnecessary anymore
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#24 - 2012-04-15 08:33:33 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:
You're exagerating. Blue loot isn't really worth that much considering all the costs associated with aquiring it and the number of players it gets spread around to in most cases. Good job.



Ummm it is injecting the same amount of ISK into EVE as Incursions are so no I am not exagerating. Same amount of players are doing them as incursions & WH palyers are making much more bank in ribbons on top of the blue loot.


Have you ever been in a WH for some time?

WH players are actually sacrificing a lot and doing a lot of hardship to earn that. It's like Far West minus (often times) the railway to get back home.

Blue loot could be turned into something craftable and sold to players instead of NPCs, but nerfing WHers income is certainly NOT the way to go. You can't even begin to compare WH to incursions.
Gorki Andropov
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2012-04-15 08:34:41 UTC
Darth, I likes your points BUT I VEHEMENTLY PROTEST THE RACIST IDIOM IN YOUR THREAD TITLE.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#26 - 2012-04-15 08:38:50 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Gorki Andropov wrote:
Darth, I likes your points BUT I VEHEMENTLY PROTEST THE RACIST IDIOM IN YOUR THREAD TITLE.


A SCOT is a racist idiom? As an american I need explaination of that if true I am sorry honestly ! ( or are you just trolling? )
Scot free is a term I used in elementary school w/o a frown... is it a bad term else where? Then again we used the term Inidian givers in school w/o punishment & today I guess I'd get a tongue lashing for that Oops
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#27 - 2012-04-15 08:46:13 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Blue loot could be turned into something craftable and sold to players instead of NPCs



Ummm no it can't you are talking about something else.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Rimase
#28 - 2012-04-15 09:06:06 UTC
Please lock this thread and incinerate it.

Looking to join Caldari Faction Warfare corporation!

Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
#29 - 2012-04-15 09:37:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Himnos Altar
DarthNefarius wrote:
Gorki Andropov wrote:
Darth, I likes your points BUT I VEHEMENTLY PROTEST THE RACIST IDIOM IN YOUR THREAD TITLE.


A SCOT is a racist idiom?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascot_cap


okay, yes, blue loot DOES give out good ISK, great even. Yes, Nano-Ribbons sell for a lot. but you have to remember that if you're seriously doing Wormholes, you're doing it in a null-sec PVP environment WITHOUT local, where with no warning you can get a fleet or a bomb dropped on you (unless you're super diligent at D Scan and they weren't cloaked before dropping on you, AND Sleepers aren't warp disrupting you from 150km out). That raises the risk.

ADDITIONALLY, any serious attempt at playing with EVE's holes (lots of fun to be had playing in various holes) generally requires a POS for Ship Maintenance Arrays and Corp Hangars (Orca doesn't really cut it unless you're just probing the hole gently for a few hours), which requires fuel. Add the fact that you can no longer make PI fuel and have to import blocks (or at the very least ice products if you hit the jackpot of planets), and that anything less than a Large Tower generally isn't that worth it. Then you have to get ammo, additional ships, etc into the wormhole and to the POS without getting blown up.

And if that's not bad enough, if you get podded you better hope there's someone in the hole with scan probes that can get you back in because otherwise you are ******. BAck in K-space and the nearest entrance wormhole to your hole might be 40+ jumps away--if there IS one that day (C4s+ are generally buried 1 WH deep inside W space IIRC--ie no direct connection to K space, you need to go through WHs to get to K space--could be wrong on the Class number where it generally starts though).

so yeah, next time that you run incursions protected by CONCORD with your shiny ships, with a clone bay system two jumps away and a station hangar in which to put any loot/spare ammo in the system.....please continue raging against the blue tags and nano ribbons that the serious wormholers are getting.

I'm SURE CCP is listening.
Masikari
State War Academy
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-04-15 10:04:14 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:



You're exagerating. Blue loot isn't really worth that much considering all the costs associated with aquiring it and the number of players it gets spread around to in most cases. In some cases it is a Wormhole Corps primary means of immediate income for its members as the real Sleeper loot gets used in manufacturing as do the majority of other materials aquired in Wormholes.

Not speaking for the wormhole raiders here, just the Corps that actually live there. As for those other chaps, I'm sure they get what they get based on what class of Wormhole they are raiding and how long they spend there.

You also have to consider time investment here. Wormholers probably have one of the highest time requirements placed on them with regard to managing their POSs, mining Gasses, Scanning, and running Sleeper sites which aren't exactly as common as missions or even remotely frequent spawners. Then there is just general time spent scouting and watching and spying/surveiling, which accounts for almost half of any wormholers time in game provided they actually make an effort and don't just show up to blow up Sleepers.

In all, it has a high burnout factor for anyone that actually invests in it actively in game, and you want to take away the one relatively guaranteed payout for all that time invested. Good job.


This. You hit the spot, sir.

Plus FYI, Darth, WH's did get a big nerf when CCP changed the sleepers so they nueted ships. And it's been said before many times... THE RISK. WH's are riskier that Null because there is no local intel. If blue-loot is bringing in as much ISK as Incursions then Incursions need to be nerfed more, because there is very little risk in comparison. But you shouldn't even compare WH's to Incursions anyway - two VERY different arena's.

Please answer this - have you ever LIVED in a WH? If not (and I don't think you have) go try it for a month and then tell me we shouldn't get rewarded for our efforts.

Here's what we have to do to get our 'over priced' blue loot out:
1) Run the site (I won't even mention the agony of getting a Carrier into a WH to run the sites) and run the constant risk of getting jumped - which is a very common occurence
2) Salvage the site, all the time watching D-Scan and running the risk of getting jumped
3) Scan down our exit into a C2
4) Scout the C2
5) If it's too active we have to close the WH. Takes about 20 mins and holds a lot of risk in either getting jumped or trapping a ship in the other WH
6) Scan down the C2. If there is not a HS/LS/suitable WH exit, repeat point 5
7) See if HS/LS exit is suitable. If not, repeat point 5
8) If the adjacent WH to the C2 is no good, repeat point 5
9) If we are lucky with the exits, we get the loot out. But there is the constant risk of things like warp bubbles, hictors, bombers -the list goes on and on- in the other holes from either roaming gangs or the occupants
10) Do our best to avoid suicide gankers cos we're carrying precious lootz

And you think we should be penalised for this effort? Do you not think there should be a drop of compensation for the amount of ships we lose by choosing WH life?
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#31 - 2012-04-15 10:28:06 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Blue loot could be turned into something craftable and sold to players instead of NPCs



Ummm no it can't you are talking about something else.


Could as in should. English is not my first nor second tongue Oops
Kaahles
Jion Keanturi
#32 - 2012-04-15 10:33:24 UTC
Guess you're talking about the incursion nerf stated in the devblog? If because of that you want a WH nerf you're a moron. Sorry but it's as simple as that.

It's not even a ******* nerf. To Vanguards maybe but all it does is a balancing of the sides. Now the more difficult Assault sites actually pay more than the easier vanguards. Which is how it should be.

There were two ways of doing it. Upping the reward of Assault/HQ sites relative to VG's or just lower the output of VG's which is the more reasonable thing to do since we already have a problem with way too much isk coming into the game.

The drone region nerfs are not a reason either because the stupid drone alloys were a mistake from day 1 it should never have happened to begin with.

Besides... I do this stuff (WH's / Incursions) just to get some variety into my ISK making there are much more effective and profitable ways for me anyway. No I won't tell you what it is (pro tip: it's not single thing it's a combination of several things to keep it interesting).

With that being said... all back in your cages!
Lanasak
Doomheim
#33 - 2012-04-15 10:38:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Lanasak
babby upset over the vanguard nerf wags his finger at the infinitely more risky forms of isk making in the game
Kaahles
Jion Keanturi
#34 - 2012-04-15 10:42:55 UTC
Lanasak wrote:
babby upset over the vanguard nerf wags his finger at the infinitely more risky forms of isk making in the game

Damn basically says the same as my wall if text but with less effort... need more coffee What?
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
Already Replaced.
#35 - 2012-04-15 10:53:24 UTC
sometimes i think the people going on about nerfing wormholes have never actually gone throught he proccesses of actually doing stuff in said wormholes.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#36 - 2012-04-15 11:02:34 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
should be cut in the name of balance.


Yeah if you take a 1 kg weight off from both sides of the scales surely that will make a difference and balance the scale again.
XIRUSPHERE
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2012-04-15 11:06:12 UTC  |  Edited by: XIRUSPHERE
Wormholes have built in checks and balances such as hard farming depleting systems and the inherent risk in operating in the most dangerous space in eve while juggling logistic hurdles that make all but the most dedicated fold. The income from these ventures is spread over a multitude and is well earned by the sheer effort put in.

Incursions on the other hand are the epitome of reward without risk, purposefully exploited to a maximum degree while mitigating risk to the point where inflation is tangible as the only goal becomes extreme wealth accumulation for a narrow band of players who are fine with broken mechanics as long as they benefit and continue to perpetuate an air of exclusivisity. This has created a culture of entitlement even more dangerous than the cartels that control the vast sums of moon wealth in the game.

The difference is effort and risk, incursions are about neither and about maintaining this broken mechanic at all cost. At least major moon holders readily admit its broken and seek a fix while having worked towards their goal and maintaining it. The drone nerf has been also needed as a solution as it made mining worthless along with gun mining in highsec.

Your lp is worthless because your mechanics are worthless, too much reward, too much supply, too much saturation coupled with greed equals poor ratios. You are deluded and deserve quite more to fix this broken feature.

The advantage of a bad memory is that one can enjoy the same good things for the first time several times.

One will rarely err if extreme actions be ascribed to vanity, ordinary actions to habit, and mean actions to fear.

Hikaru Kuroda
Extheria
#38 - 2012-04-15 11:07:19 UTC
Lanasak wrote:
2) there is infinitely more risk in wormholes than in welfare incursions

Michael1995
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#39 - 2012-04-15 11:16:55 UTC
The main difference between incursions and WHs is the fact that there is no local, meaning that anyone can come in and whack your knackers off.

The only risk coming with incursions is pilot failure (Wrong trigger, stupid Logi) and massive blackbird squads, which can be avoided if seen coming (Dscan is a LOVELY tool). Whereas anything can happen to you while running sites in a WH. I know I've personally stalked a system for a week just to kill a noctis.

About the sleeper neuts:
They were originally meant to neut, but were broken for 1.5 years+ until they fixed it.

Also don't forget to nerf mining, they might actually make some money off the increasing mineral prices. Roll

Selling WH CFC Standings 10b/month for +10 with: Lazerhawks, Hard Knocks, Overwatch This, Many Vacancies, Golden Showers, Friendly Probes, Isogen Memed.

Join up for swag C3 Gila/Osprey ratting fleets daily! We also rent C2s out with CV effect!

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#40 - 2012-04-15 11:20:12 UTC
Roime wrote:
Yes, all bounties should be removed and turned into "blue loot", like tags that you need to sell to NPCs to receive any ISK .


This is the way I'd prefer to see it go. Though I'd go a little further and stop NPCs dropping T1 loot at all: they can drop bits and pieces which capsuleers reverse engineer to get high-meta T1 items.

Blue loot is just the same as bounties for everyone else. Why should they get nerved? People are leaving wormholes to go run Incursions because Incursions are so much easier and safer!