Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Dunno, but one player needing 150 other players to get killed sound pretty damn OP to me.

But even that fall short of the actual situation. Because if you have 100 SC within remote range of each other, then you can bring as many hurricanes as the node will permit, you won't kill a single one of them. A thousand hurricanes wouldn't kill one SC.


Besides, once one alliance get enough money, it is pretty easy to bring 100 SC on the field. What alliance would manage to assemble 15000 hurricanes pilots? No one can. No one can even get to a quarter of that. And because no one can, the "combat power/pilots mobilized" ratio of supercarriers need to be cut down. Drastically.

That, or making their useless unless they are only a small fraction of their fleet composition. For example by making them unables to target anything if they're not wing or fleet leaders, with at least 20 support ships present in system for each supercap.

There's certainly room for super capitals to be reduced to have maybe 2-3x the EHP of a carrier.

Right now you can get +25MIL EHP easily with a Nyx, slaves, and boosting while its sister ship the Thanatos can only squeeze out 1-2MIL.

ah yes the more 'elite' alliances are able to hold their own against superior numbers by fielding a superior number of blatantly overpowered ships

how can you tell they are "elite"? well they got two hundred supercaps on the field that is is some sun tzu **** right there

hey mittens lets put another hundred guys in supercarriers so we can be elite as **** too

The whole Dread, Black ops, Super is a question of Scale.

A small Buff to dreads coupled with a small reduction is supers strength(EHP, Only Being able to use Fighters) Would balance the game.

Gentle Tweaking of this over time would lead to more balance.

what is likley to happen based on pervious form is a massive over nerf of supers followed by an insane buff on dreads.

Apart from a little more jump range and a slightly better fuel bay black ops really dont need a boost or nerf for that matter.

I just hope CCP Goes in lots of small steps rather and jumping in with both feet and ending up in more of a mess than we already have.

the other idea i would love is for CCP to give us some more ships skills ect. ive heard the Idea of a second kind black ops that can warp cloaked but doesnt have a jump drive Using another BS hull.

How much for a constitution class?

Yeah after all, when you only need to bring 30,000 guys in canes to beat those 200 in supers, then how could that possibly be unbalanced in any way?

There are two different argument's in this thread, which one are you referring to?

There is the argument that people will automatically try to win a numerical advantage over others no matter what the game mechanics allow or do not allow.

And then there is the argument that the game mechanic should be diverse, and anything that necessitates you meet one force with a like force, i.e. Falcons for Falcons, Super Capitals for Super Capitals, is not conducive to that diversity whatsoever.

CCP nerfed nano and Falcons for this very reason, to bring them more in line with a diverse variety of combat mechanics that were all viable, to the point that neither was ubiquitous anymore, but merely another tool at one's disposal, much like every other.

The former argument is of course true, those with a numerical or tangible advantage gained through hard work and effort are always in the right in the sense that they put in more time and effort to win.

The latter argument is of course false, the game should not be a matter of "Well, they brought a hundred super capitals, too bad we do not have a hundred ourselves or we might be able to play the game we are paying for!"

It should be more like "Well they brought a hundred super capitals, but we can use skill and initiative to bring out 50x [Heavy Assault Bombers] and pop 10-15 of their super capitals and drive them off with the cost of their losses alone."

Right now when there are a hundred super capitals, the only answer, is another hundred, at least for practical purposes.

Why should we have no choice, no diversity?

Someone mentioned, well you can kill a supercap with 150x Hurricanes!
... okay, so what happens when there are 2x supercaps on a grid, and you won't kill even a single one of them with your 150x hurricanes because they'll all be dead long before the primary is in any danger.

It is a problem of scale, and CCP will attempt to fix it, that is all.

#1: The same options are not on the table for everyone.
#2: CSM 6 is dominated by 0.0 alliances from every part of the Eve political spectrum. All agree SC's are ridiculously out of balance. This is not a specific alliance issue.
#3: Your argument is essentially the same as the argument in support of the old remote doomsday through a cyno.
#4: Your reduction of your own argument to personal insults under the guise of an obvious alt is most unbecoming.

No matter how many times you say it Sonva, it doesn't make it 100% true no more than anything we are saying.

There is a kernel of truth to both sides, but the fact of the matter is, super capitals in their present form do not mesh with the way CCP intended for them to be used, period.

CCP has already stated this, end of story.

You can argue your fairly extreme viewpoints that 100% of all points of debate about changes needed to combat in EVE are based solely on the haves versus have nots all you want, but that doesn't make it anymore true than people saying super capitals themselves are the sole reason for the imbalance itself.

CCP would not have to take any action at all if people were not exploiting super capitals to a level of use that CCP felt it had to intervene on as they did not intend for them to play the role they presently do in the game.

i.e. doesn't matter how you spin the player element of the story, the fact remains CCP already stated they view the player use of super capitals in EVE to be contrary to the use they intended for these ships when they revamped them.

/thread.

Give it up already, no one is telling you that you are outright wrong, they are merely saying you are missing the point of why changes are necessary, regardless of the motivations of players asking for those changes, nor players making full use of supercaps in their present form to gain a clear advantage over others, which is at present, a legitimate use of super capitals, by virtue of the present game mechanic, which will change, regardless of what you personally think about the people that use or do not use them, nor those who argue against or for them, or anything related to social dynamics and conflict at all.