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Supers "nerf" WRONG

First post
Author
The Mittani
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#41 - 2011-09-12 18:18:53 UTC
death2allsupercaps

~hi~

Morganta
The Greater Goon
Clockwork Pineapple
#42 - 2011-09-12 18:20:05 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Supercaps should be generally very tough, but extremely vulnerable to noobships that target the exhaust vent.


/thread
Crunchmeister
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2011-09-12 18:29:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Crunchmeister
I'm fully in favor of the super nerf, but to an extent. I agree that it should only have fighters and bombers, and that EHP should be reduced. But only a bit. Totally nerfing the EHP would be disastrous.

The super needs a role other than "everything killer" which it currently has. While it's possible for a sub-cap group to take out a super (it happens), most of the time, when you have a large group of supers on field (which tends to be the rule rather than the exception), really the only way you can take them out is with a bigger group of supers and superior support fleet or dreads. The idea is to balance them, and not to make them useless. They should still be the kings of the battlefield and still be hard to kill. They just need to be a little more vulnerable, even in numbers, against support fleets.

And of course, the long awaited buff to dreads is something I look forward to. It sucks that such potentially powerful ships are currently as useless as a nun's vag. You rarely see them, and when you do, they're more often than not shooting POSes or stations, or getting raped by other ships in battle. Right now, there's no strategic use for them on the battlefield that won't result in heavy dread losses. They need more EHP to have some doomsday resistance, need to do more damage, and need that damn siege cycle shortened. It seems like all those are on the table as possible options, which is a good thing IMO.

People were constantly telling me I was crazy. For a long time I didn't believe them, but after a while, I started to think they might be right.

But it turns out that they were all wrong. One of the voices in my head is a psychiatrist and he says I'm perfectly sane.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#44 - 2011-09-12 18:34:08 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
death2allsupercaps




Burn them all. This is subcap space now.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#45 - 2011-09-12 18:43:21 UTC
Avon wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

This from the largest collection of blues in the game who stomp on any sized fleet with a supercap blob larger than just about everyone elses combined?

Winter is coming.


I seem to remember Goons laughing at smaller alliances and dismissing their "blob" complaints as an inability to make friends.
Now when the shoe is on the other foot they complain about it.



Wern't laughing when Antares Shipyards payed them a visit.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2011-09-12 18:46:47 UTC
Dirk Tungsten wrote:
The supers "nerf" is what is in question here.

Not saying supers shouldnt have a "nerf", but if what in question is true then ccp have got the balance of thing totally wrong and are condemning supers to be as useless as dreds currently are.

Positive to supers "nerf">
Being limited to fighters & fighter bombers is a well thought out an acceptable. Will mean that evolving tactics & strategys will be implemented around supers.

Major Cons to supers "nerf">
Supers should not have HP or Damage ammount taken away. A minimal ammount could be acceptable, but anything major is just a disaster waiting to happen. You prepare a character over years to be a maxed out super pilot & pay a shed load of isk for the super & everything involved with owning them. You pay for its capabilitys & its survivability. Then to have a hugely unreasonable,not well thought through outrageous nurf to be implimented is factually not the right thing to be done, narrow minded & a far oversight. If the nurfs are true then it could hit player participation greatly an faith in ccp knowing what there customers want.

Dreds of course have long awaited a buff to abilitys. If its true then dreds having more HP, damage & the 5mins siege cycle is a huge step forward & positive outlook for the future of dreds.

In conclusion what I,like so many people are concerned about is if the nurfs are true, why make your weak arm stronger ( DREDS ) & cut off your already strong arm ( SUPERS )
There has to be a balance there for player satisfaction & ensureing a positive future for gameplay. The "nerf" in question however is only going to yet again make a single class of ship relatively useless.

computer says "no".

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right

Skunk Gracklaw
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#47 - 2011-09-12 18:46:55 UTC
Crunchmeister wrote:
Totally nerfing the EHP would be disastrous.

I sure hope so. The howls from the forces of ~elite pvp~ are going to be music to my ears.
Lord Ryan
True Xero
#48 - 2011-09-12 18:52:00 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Supercaps should be generally very tough, but extremely vulnerable to noobships that target the exhaust vent.



Pimp!

Op might have a point somewhere in there. You spend years getting the skills/ISK for a Super. Just imgaine graduating from med school to find out you are being replaced with a 2-1B

Do not assume anything above this line was typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.

Lord Ryan
True Xero
#49 - 2011-09-12 18:53:27 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
death2allsupercaps




Burn them all. This is subcap space now.


Now that would be cool, 27 days short of being subcap pimp!

Do not assume anything above this line was typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.

Amsterdam Conversations
Doomheim
#50 - 2011-09-12 18:54:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Amsterdam Conversations
Dirk Tungsten wrote:
Not true, smaller more organised & elite alliances are able to hold there own against mass blobs due to supers being part of the fleet comp & being used well in the fleet comp etc. With HP & damage reduced grossly smaller entities will have to band together to go up against mass blobs such as Goons etc.

Wich in foresight will mean that there will be more players in certain engadgements meaning a hell of alot more lagg.

What a hilarious post. I'm in no way a PL fanboy pubby, but the only alliance that I'd call elite in this game are PL.

NCdot is a joke, it is bloated with all the stanrdard sov 0.0 noobs from alliances like atlas and IT alliance, do you really believe that you are better than any other alliance in this game?

Since you left Fountain almost a year ago NCdot went down the shitter and lost ~ two thirds of their best PVPers. That was the last time you ever engaged anyone outnumbered, the rest was a napfest with Evoke in Providence and the happenings of the past couple of months (hey look you replaced what you hated the most, the NC).
ThisIsntMyMain
Doomheim
#51 - 2011-09-12 18:58:32 UTC
Dirk Tungsten wrote:
The supers "nerf" is what is in question here.

Not saying supers shouldnt have a "nerf", but if what in question is true then ccp have got the balance of thing totally wrong and are condemning supers to be as useless as dreds currently are.



ITT whiny 12 year old kid believes unsubstantiated internet rumours and moans about stuff that hasn't been announced yet
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#52 - 2011-09-12 19:02:46 UTC
This is not the first time Super Carriers have gone through a nerf.

Nothing is final or even in testing yet.

Actually the last time CCP played with super carriers.
There was a ton of input from the players and everyone loved the way they are now.
So CCP and the players thought they were good to go.

One year later and now they are broken.

NOT

Are they over powered now ?
Maybe.

The point is CCP agreed they need to be looked at and several things have been proposed.
What we end up with in the end has yet to be seen.

Crunchmeister
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2011-09-12 19:09:36 UTC
Skunk Gracklaw wrote:
[I sure hope so. The howls from the forces of ~elite pvp~ are going to be music to my ears.


Those who will bemoan the super nerf are the ones that use them as a crutch to make up for a lack of any true strategic and tactical skills. Doesn't take too much of an imagination to know who's quaking in their boots right now at the thought of potentially losing the advantage of their super blob. But I don't want supers to be useless either. Just make them so they're no longer the "I Win" button. That will reduce their use, and as a byproduct, reduce the lag caused by them.

Amsterdam Conversations wrote:
...the happenings of the past couple of months (hey look you replaced what you hated the most, the NC).

That's actually the most unfortunate part of the collapse of the NC. The vacuum was quickly filled by the Anti-Blue Anti-Blob Coalition that ended up having the biggest NAPfest in Eve history and are part of the perpetrators of the worse super blobbing ever seen. Despite having been on the receiving end of lots of NCDOT ass-kickings, I used to have some real respect for them because they would fight outnumbered and often win because of superior tactics. Now, not so much.

People were constantly telling me I was crazy. For a long time I didn't believe them, but after a while, I started to think they might be right.

But it turns out that they were all wrong. One of the voices in my head is a psychiatrist and he says I'm perfectly sane.

Steph Wing
No Dukks Given
#54 - 2011-09-12 19:12:11 UTC
Guys guys, my unbalanced and overpowered ship should remain unbalanced and overpowered. After all, I spent years saving and training skills to get in one, and I can't let all that spaceship time go to waste.
Shadowsword
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2011-09-12 19:24:57 UTC
Damn it, the forum ate my post.

Well, you'll get teh TL,DR version then.

What should be done:

1/ limit them to fighter-bombers. Supercarriers are cap killers, so they should be worthless against subcap. So not even fighters, as they kill battleships and BC relatively well.

2/ Allow them to dock, so the pilots will have the possibility to take his carrier if he wants to play an oversized logistic or another ship.

3/ remove their high-slots. SC are too one-size-do-it-all, and their spider tanking when in blob is obcene. And I hate seeing a supercap cloack.

4/ Give the remote AoE ECM role to another ship. Like the black ops, for example.

5/ Make them impossible to remote. A proper Nyx has more than 17 millions EHP (without gang mods, slave set and so on), and 5.4k active tank. Don't get me started on the Aeon. 17M EHP is like a hundred T2-fit Tier 3 BS. They don't need remote tanking to be extremely hard to kill.
Trainwreck McGee
Doomheim
#56 - 2011-09-12 19:27:46 UTC
Nerf is simple

Just make it so i can fly a frig into a narrow passage way with a target at the end of it that blows the thing up. And make it so my corp can shoot something trailing me and say

"You're all clear kid, now let's blow this thing and go home"

See nerf is easy.

CCP Trainwreck - Weekend Custodial Engineer / CCP Necrogoats foot stool

Shadowsword
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2011-09-12 19:40:07 UTC
That meme is starting to get a bit stale, you know...
Dirk Tungsten
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2011-09-13 20:27:46 UTC
As for supercarriers, I don't think nerfing them will actually have intended effect. It just means people will bring even more of them rather than less. They don't need nerfing, they need a more effective counter.

Nerfing ships because an alliance is too pathetic to build them or too scared to use them is not a path we should be going down.



This guy understands.

An who ever said BSs where not effective anymore in 0.0 is quite litteraly the biggest nub iv heard of to date & has absolutely no idea of what goes on at all, my guess is hes more than likely either an indy pilot or been hanging in empire for "forever"

o7
Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
#59 - 2011-09-13 20:31:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Mendolus
Dirk Tungsten wrote:
As for supercarriers, I don't think nerfing them will actually have intended effect. It just means people will bring even more of them rather than less. They don't need nerfing, they need a more effective counter.

Nerfing ships because an alliance is too pathetic to build them or too scared to use them is not a path we should be going down.



You do realize CCP has already stated they are 'reworking' supercapitals and 'taking a look' at Black Ops ships, so what makes you think they do not plan to both nerf supercapitals to some degree AND introduce more effective counters to them?

And more importantly, why are you still complaining through hypothetical arguments that have no actual validity at all until we see them on SiSi or a dev blog?

I'm sorry for this but:

Complainers gonna complain?

...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the Apocalypse, i.e. the Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.

Dirk Tungsten
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2011-09-13 20:34:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirk Tungsten
Amsterdam Conversations wrote:
Dirk Tungsten wrote:
Not true, smaller more organised & elite alliances are able to hold there own against mass blobs due to supers being part of the fleet comp & being used well in the fleet comp etc. With HP & damage reduced grossly smaller entities will have to band together to go up against mass blobs such as Goons etc.

Wich in foresight will mean that there will be more players in certain engadgements meaning a hell of alot more lagg.

What a hilarious post. I'm in no way a PL fanboy pubby, but the only alliance that I'd call elite in this game are PL.

NCdot is a joke, it is bloated with all the stanrdard sov 0.0 noobs from alliances like atlas and IT alliance, do you really believe that you are better than any other alliance in this game?

Since you left Fountain almost a year ago NCdot went down the shitter and lost ~ two thirds of their best PVPers. That was the last time you ever engaged anyone outnumbered, the rest was a napfest with Evoke in Providence and the happenings of the past couple of months (hey look you replaced what you hated the most, the NC).




At what point did I either way say NC. where elite. said elite alliances you special case of chicken flu. You are presuming to much hunny bun.

Your possibly "SPECIAL", but what I know for sure is you obvious don't know jack about NC. atm. MB we killed your super or titan an you thought you would cry on here, im listening an [email protected] please bring more tears.