Science & Industry

There's no need to remove T2 BPOs.


What is needed is to balance

(a) the invention mechanism, and
(b) T2 manufacturing times

until for any particular ship/module type, at least 80% or so of the actual ships/modules produced are from invention.

This should affect mostly ships.

And winning the lottery was, in the vast majority of cases, the result of a lot of sweat and time involved.

And time = money.

I know a guy who had 3 accounts. 9 characters. 54 lv5 R&D agents. With all relevant skills maxed. Involved SP in the multiple dozens of millions.

So he got a few BPOs. If you imply again that he just was handed over those BPOs because he got lucky, I'll start calling you names.





Invention need to take into account the ME/PE of the BPC used in the process. That would reduce significantly the margin between Bpo-produced and invention-produced stuff. But that's all that's needed.

There is no need to reintroduce T2 BPOs. If you still want reasons, just think how a massive influx from those prints would obsolete Invention. Or the unnecessary economic disruption for those who invested in one.

Speaking of reasons, I have yet to see a reason for removing T2 Bpos that doesn't reek of envy.

Great at least one with an idea¡!

People dont like changes and if they have an advantage will fight to retain it.

- BPO and Invention are two diferent ways to produce items. This is a game and the reality are mechanics that can be changed for the better of the game.
- In mi opinion invention is a good system i like your idea of ME/PE of the BPC. And i think it has been proven that invention alone can sustain the market with items.
- the matter of compensation (if any) is a diferent one. I personally have lots of R&D agents and whent the new changes to FW come will personally lose a lot of money but i agree that moving a static way to earn money - to a dinamic one will be better for the game (i might be wrong i dont think FW for industri is any good maybe some new type of mini game like PI to get datacores).
- So i believe that invention should be the main way to get T2 items. And that an "active" way to get them "invention" should earn better results that a "pasive" one. Understanding here you spend some time/isk obtaining it but after that its allmost a pasive way to get what in invention you need to work for.

So i see we have two options making a sistem where t2/Invention work togheter. And where invention (that needs more work to sustain) should make the less cost items than a semi/pasive way of the BPO T2. If we introduce BPO T2 with mi sistem will not make obsolete Invention. Invention items will be cheaper than BPO T2. So you can decide make lots and lots of item with less time.
O make cheaper items spending more time in the process.

Or remove the sistem or make a new one.

EvE

I say that the price they pay at start (lotery) or 20 B if bought yesterday dosent matter. The fact that you have two diferent ways to produce items is. So lets them be diferent.

If you whant BPO T2 lets the final product be more expensive that the one you get from invention. (able to build lots of items more expensive ones less time from the user).

Let invention build less expensive items (able to build items more cheap with more time from the user.)

Or use only one. Having two sistems to do the same isnt good. If you whant two sistem let one be good at A bad at B and the other good at B bad at A.

EvA

thanks for giving and argument and not trollin.

Its like PI people can make 15 minutes cicles o 2 weeks cicles. Less efort less money.
BPO T2 its easier less efort (less time involved) so it should return less profit than doing invention (same number slots more time spended.) How to archive this is something we can talk about. (someone sugested me/pe from BPO T1 should change BPO T2)

Most of the items are invented now so if one item makes no profit will move to make another like in BPO T1 i dont see a problem there.

Some items allready dont have BPO T2 do you see the speculation you are afraid there? Offer / demand will make the new value of things.

Tornado is an T1 item that is higly speculated nowdays.

http://www.eve-market-guide.com/t1item.php?id=4310

Sure more people will start building them and more offer = less price.

Speculation is mostly used when u perceive an item is worth more that the price you pay for it and you buy it not for use it. you buy it to sell it latter at a higher price. Sometimes you are right sometimes you arent.

EvA

But crying ignorantly with no knowledge of why invention was introduced in the first place is so much easier.

I was playing the game before the lottery was taken away.

Although I'd been working on Research Points, I didn't stand a chance at the time due to the shear volume of RP points the people who started in 2003 had amassed and the fact each RP point gave you a ticket in the field the RP's were in.

Was I upset at the time the system was biased via time in game? Yes.

Am I bitter I didn't get a BPO? Not really.

Was I elated when CCP replaced it with Invention? Yes.

Was I estatic when I realised that actually, quite a few of the T2 ships and modules DO NOT have a T2 BPO (all those released AFTER invention)? Too bloody right I was.

Do I now own a T2 BPO? No.

Do I want removal of existing T2 BPO's? No. Emphatically no.

I fully support the removal of T2 BPOs. It only widens the gap between the 125+ Million SP players/corps/alliances and those who are 2-3 yrs old or less. If they have all the skills why should they not be forced to use them and have all the same chance as the rest of us to obtain them. Instead, they had trillions of ISK to blow on **** from the Tech moons that most of us will never even see no matter how long we play the game of EvE.

CCP must realize that. They have the skills, make them ******* use them.

This thread is never leaving front page, Well while I have an active account. New players beware T2BPO and CCP pets are still ruining this game for new players with there super duper ISK gifts and special items.

I'm sure new players will hopefully understand the value of working for something rather than having is given to them, which is what you and others in this thread are advocating. Hard work means nothing to you and "EvA", so you insist that CCP penalize those that put in years--- YEARS--- of hard work in favor of give-aways.

There's something you people just don't get:
1) If you don't want T2 BPOs in the game, buy them and then trash them. But you're not willing to put the money into doing that, unlike those of us that have T2 BPOs.
2) You don't understand the economics behind T2 BPO usage: it's been stated over and over in this thread, and you still goose-step on the removal bandwagon without giving a rational explanation of what is wrong having them in game. CCPs own numbers show that BPO production is a MINOR part of the market, overall, but you still seem to have the misguided notion that everything is out there because of T2 BPO production. Grow up.

For the new industrialists, I offer you the opposite side the the argument: work hard to get to a place of success, and reap the rewards. None of the black helicopter, "CCP pets" boolshite exists here, unlike what the advocates consistently fall back on. There's one truth here about the remove-T2-BPO side of this argument (and someone mentioned it earlier):

Envy.

[ /thread]