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CSM The Mittani's Misconduct Calls for Resignation - We Did It!

First post First post
Author
Frying Doom
#2121 - 2012-03-27 15:38:04 UTC
Karim alRashid wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Karim alRashid wrote:

And how CCP will maintain their credibility if they remove at will player-elected representatives? How will CSM be ever taken seriously not as CCP puppets, who can't dare to cross CCP's opinion

How will CCP have any credibility if they don't remove him? Its not like he said they stuffed up, so they got rid of him. He stuffed up royally and needs to be removed.


Very simple. CCP are not responsible to words or actions of any single individual, who is not officially acting on their behalf.

CSM are not official CCP representatives, they are official player representatives.

So if your not officially acting on behalf of CCP you can use real life threats of death, beatings ect.. I know he said it as a joke, its the next asshat I worry about.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Allataria
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#2122 - 2012-03-27 15:40:20 UTC
Issler should resign for trying to spin the story for his own gain.

People need to learn the difference between griefing and cyber bullying. This was griefing not cyber bullying.
Prince Kobol
#2123 - 2012-03-27 15:41:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Allataria wrote:
Issler should resign for trying to spin the story for his own gain.

People need to learn the difference between griefing and cyber bullying. This was griefing not cyber bullying.


You may think that, many others might think that, but every site which is reporting on the story are reporting it as Cyber Bullying and that is what matters.
Karim alRashid
Starboard.
#2124 - 2012-03-27 15:46:19 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

So if your not officially acting on behalf of CCP you can use real life threats of death, beatings ect.


You seem to be making arbitrary statements without any signs of logical reasoning.

Pain is weakness leaving the body http://www.youtube.com/user/AlRashidKarim/videos

Lexmana
#2125 - 2012-03-27 15:48:17 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Allataria wrote:
Issler should resign for trying to spin the story for his own gain.

People need to learn the difference between griefing and cyber bullying. This was griefing not cyber bullying.


You may think that, many others might think that, but every site which is reporting on the story are reporting it as Cyber Bulling and that is what matters.

Yeah, right, (a select part of ) the media is not only the prosecutor. They are also the judge and the jury.

I can tell you that not all media share the same view. Check out these blogs as an example. I am sure more will follow:

http://liangnuren.wordpress.com/2012/03/26/the-mittani-hero/
http://jestertrek.blogspot.se/2012/03/hats.html
SpaceBenfish
Perkone
Caldari State
#2126 - 2012-03-27 15:50:53 UTC
Fly byNighter wrote:
for the Leader of the CSM to act this way is preposterous!!!! He need to step down in his leadership role ASAP!!!!!! I don't want to Eve get a bad name to the gaming community because of one dumb ass trying to show off as being hot ****!!!!



*faaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrtttttt*

stoicfaux
#2127 - 2012-03-27 15:51:39 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Allataria wrote:
Issler should resign for trying to spin the story for his own gain.

People need to learn the difference between griefing and cyber bullying. This was griefing not cyber bullying.


You may think that, many others might think that, but every site which is reporting on the story are reporting it as Cyber Bulling and that is what matters.

Yeah, right, (a select part of ) the media is not only the prosecutor. They are also the judge and the jury.

I can tell you that not all media share the same view. Check out these blogs as an example. I am sure more will follow:

http://liangnuren.wordpress.com/2012/03/26/the-mittani-hero/
http://jestertrek.blogspot.se/2012/03/hats.html

Those blogs are not mainstream and they're too dense/nuanced for the general public to understand. So even though they make good points, they're not nearly enough to counter the initial "cyberbully" stories.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Prince Kobol
#2128 - 2012-03-27 15:51:56 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Allataria wrote:
Issler should resign for trying to spin the story for his own gain.

People need to learn the difference between griefing and cyber bullying. This was griefing not cyber bullying.


You may think that, many others might think that, but every site which is reporting on the story are reporting it as Cyber Bulling and that is what matters.

Yeah, right, (a select part of ) the media is not only the prosecutor. They are also the judge and the jury.

I can tell you that not all media share the same view. Check out these blogs as an example. I am sure more will follow:

http://liangnuren.wordpress.com/2012/03/26/the-mittani-hero/
http://jestertrek.blogspot.se/2012/03/hats.html


They are blogs made by players.

You can not compare blogs made by players to those sites that companies like CCP rely on heavily for marketing and advertising.

Whilst I generally do not like these sites and rarely bother visiting any of them simply because they don't give a **** about the players or games, just simply which developer pays them the most to get a good review, companies like CCP, Like Sony pay a hell of a lot attention to them.

CNL Jack Oniel
uber nomad
#2129 - 2012-03-27 15:54:28 UTC  |  Edited by: CNL Jack Oniel
Allataria wrote:
Issler should resign for trying to spin the story for his own gain.

People need to learn the difference between griefing and cyber bullying. This was griefing not cyber bullying.



grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making others’ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities while he does not profit from it in any way. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players. At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account.
This should not be confused with standard conflict that might arise between two (or more) players, such as corporation wars. The EVE universe is a harsh universe largely driven by such conflict and notice must be taken of the fact that nonconsensual combat alone is not considered to be grief play per the above definition.

An example of grief play would be the so called "Can baiting" in starter systems. An experienced player drops a cargo container with some items in front of a station in a starter system and waits for a new player to take from it. The new player is flagged and promptly attacked and killed by the owner of the container. Doing the same in starter tutorial complexes is also considered grief play and will not be tolerated.


well if that is the case here is what something else is in the CCP EULA

I just want to make something known here i have nothing against Mittani but all you guys defending him and coming up with other things is just making him seem worse .
Kallynda Nai
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2130 - 2012-03-27 15:54:31 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Mikron Alexarr wrote:
quick question:

How the hell has this made it to 108 pages?

There's all this raging indignation on both sides, and still people are talking about what is a fairly straightforward thing.

I agree that it should be straightforward. However, the Dust/Sony deal tremendously complicates things.

Is Sony going to want to be associated with a game (Eve) that is known for exceptional douchebaggery on a niche game like Dust? (Even though the Dust-Eve is pretty revolutionary.) Sony has already had more than a few well publicized black eyes, do they really want to risk getting linked to a cyberbullying story or a game that encourages smack talk, bullying, etc.? If you're familiar with the "deep pockets" legal concept, does Sony want to risk being dragged into a lawsuit over Eve douchebaggery? Is Sony going to use this incident as leverage to force CCP to renegotiate the terms of the deal? Is Sony going to require that CCP place content filters, moderators, and other safeguards in place that will either cost CCP a lot or will jeopardize the whole Dust-Eve interaction?

I think Mittani's off the cuff comment is going to have greater repercussions than anyone first realized.


Oh please. If you think that Sony gives a damn about this incident, you're worse than your posting.

**** like this happens every day in game. Eve is well known for being a game that encourages ganking, scamming, and other bastard-like behavior. Spend a day in Jita and you'll see worse. Sony isn't going into this blind.
Kaivar Lancer
Doomheim
#2131 - 2012-03-27 15:55:58 UTC
Karim alRashid wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Karim alRashid wrote:

And how CCP will maintain their credibility if they remove at will player-elected representatives? How will CSM be ever taken seriously not as CCP puppets, who can't dare to cross CCP's opinion

How will CCP have any credibility if they don't remove him? Its not like he said they stuffed up, so they got rid of him. He stuffed up royally and needs to be removed.


Very simple. CCP are not responsible about words or actions of any single individual, who is not officially acting on their behalf.

CSM are not official CCP representatives, they are official player representatives.


Wrong.

+ The CSM is a body created by CCP
+ CSM reps receive benefits from CCP (air travel, merchandise etc)
+ CCP oversees the regulation of the CSM
+ Without CCP, there is no CSM

Personally I doubt the future of the CSM. It has become a major liability issue for CCP. In future, they'll probably just fly in focus groups who will be bound to NDAs.
Jacob Staffuer
Doomheim
#2132 - 2012-03-27 15:56:46 UTC
papamike wrote:
Jacob Staffuer wrote:

Mittens is grown man in his 20's and he's a lawyer (or paralegal or whatever). He should know better.

There is no excuse.

What does RL job title got to do with it? I would have judged him the same if he was unemployed, if he was a bartender, if he was a doctor, if he was a lawyer, if he collected the garbage.

I care not.


It's like when a firefighter puts a bunch of boxes in front of the emergency exit, or smokes in bed and sets their house on fire. It's one of those things they should just know better because it's their job.

Sort of like a lawyer/paralegal whatever knowing that cyberbullying is a crime - because it's their job to know.

Jesus we have some idiots on these forums.
PinkKnife
The Cuddlefish
Ethereal Dawn
#2133 - 2012-03-27 15:58:38 UTC
Regarding the apology, unfortunately Mittens now gets to learn the downside of being a notorious Troll and liar, no one believes you even when you aren't full of ****.

Lexmana
#2134 - 2012-03-27 15:58:51 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:

They are blogs made by players.

You can not compare blogs made by players to those sites that companies like CCP rely on heavily for marketing and advertising.

Whilst I generally do not like these sites and rarely bother visiting any of them simply because they don't give a **** about the players or games, just simply which developer pays them the most to get a good review, companies like CCP, Like Sony pay a hell of a lot attention to them.


The word will spread and soon this will be known as the biggest meta-gaming battle for power in EVE ever. And then EVE will grow even bigger.
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#2135 - 2012-03-27 15:59:18 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Allataria wrote:
Issler should resign for trying to spin the story for his own gain.

People need to learn the difference between griefing and cyber bullying. This was griefing not cyber bullying.


You may think that, many others might think that, but every site which is reporting on the story are reporting it as Cyber Bullying and that is what matters.

And you have to include, that at the moment only Gaming Magazins report about it.

At Gaming Magazins you have people, who have deaper knowlage about behavior of players and maybe even EVE + EVE comunity. They might see it has "bad" but not "critical" and they might know how the CSM is placed to CCP.

But now get out of the gaming arena. Let's take some random 65+ politican or a random Newspaper.
If they allready planed a law which limits Gaming. This would be a fantastic bone for them. And the Newspaper where a reporter works without any knowlage about gameing at all will in no way concider what is typical for a game. They just see the sozial aspect where "one guy calls to herass an other till he kills himselve". As worst case this can seen as "Mord Auftrag".

His presentation is on youtube and maybe coppied 10000 times allready. It is out of Mittanis and CCPs control anymore.
Now CCP has to act as real world company.

Real World hits EVE?

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!

low26
Phantom Space
Space Madness.
#2136 - 2012-03-27 16:00:29 UTC
Karim alRashid wrote:
low26 wrote:

If CCP has any shred of credibility at all they have to remove him from the CS


And how CCP will maintain their credibility if they remove at will player-elected representatives? How will CSM be ever taken seriously not as CCP puppets, who can't dare to cross CCP's opinion

Quote:

unless this is how they want their company perceived. If the Mittani loves EVE as much as he claims he would step down himself and save CCP the trouble. Either way CCP has itself a P.R. problem with the gaming world and it's player bas

Remove Mittens and the company improves its P.R. image in the gaming world and among its non Goon player base.


From a PR, advertisement and subscriber count point of view, quite probably Mittens has done more good than bad for CCP.



Goon alts need not reply P
Kaivar Lancer
Doomheim
#2137 - 2012-03-27 16:04:07 UTC
Karim alRashid wrote:


From a PR, advertisement and subscriber count point of view, quite probably Mittens has done more good than bad for CCP.


Who the **** are you kidding? Have you read the comments on other forums? Everyone is laughing at Eve.
Prince Kobol
#2138 - 2012-03-27 16:06:08 UTC
Jojo Jackson wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Allataria wrote:
Issler should resign for trying to spin the story for his own gain.

People need to learn the difference between griefing and cyber bullying. This was griefing not cyber bullying.


You may think that, many others might think that, but every site which is reporting on the story are reporting it as Cyber Bullying and that is what matters.

And you have to include, that at the moment only Gaming Magazins report about it.

At Gaming Magazins you have people, who have deaper knowlage about behavior of players and maybe even EVE + EVE comunity. They might see it has "bad" but not "critical" and they might know how the CSM is placed to CCP.

But now get out of the gaming arena. Let's take some random 65+ politican or a random Newspaper.
If they allready planed a law which limits Gaming. This would be a fantastic bone for them. And the Newspaper where a reporter works without any knowlage about gameing at all will in no way concider what is typical for a game. They just see the sozial aspect where "one guy calls to herass an other till he kills himselve". As worst case this can seen as "Mord Auftrag".

His presentation is on youtube and maybe coppied 10000 times allready. It is out of Mittanis and CCPs control anymore.
Now CCP has to act as real world company.

Real World hits EVE?


I genuinely hope it doesn't.

At the moment in the UK their is a witch hunt going, and has been for a while now, blaming computer games for a host of different things.

Coupled with the daily reporting about instances of Cyber Bullying - Somebody only today was sentenced for racially-aggravated public order offence to incite violence and will spend up to 56 days behind bars for a 1 racist internet message he twitted.

This is what some people don't seem to realise. There is potentially a massive fall for CCP if they do not act quick and if somebody who wants to make a name for themselves gets hold of the story and it goes main stream.
Karim alRashid
Starboard.
#2139 - 2012-03-27 16:09:32 UTC
Kaivar Lancer wrote:
Karim alRashid wrote:


From a PR, advertisement and subscriber count point of view, quite probably Mittens has done more good than bad for CCP.


Who the **** are you kidding? Have you read the comments on other forums? Everyone is laughing at Eve.


I would consider, for example, "The Sins of a Solar Spymaster" series to carry more weight than the comments of the supposed "everyone" on some forums. Roll

Pain is weakness leaving the body http://www.youtube.com/user/AlRashidKarim/videos

IGNATIUS HOOD
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2140 - 2012-03-27 16:09:51 UTC
One of the most dangerous things about the internet is its anonymous nature. It blurs the lines between what is acceptable and what is not. As a direct result you end up in situations like this one. Things get said. In here and more severely in the game it's 'harmless.' Out in the real world we have things called consequences. The Mittani should have known better. We are all adults and we should attempt to act like adults. Especially when we stand up in front of a group of other adults, regardless of our 'standing' within the community I don't know any of you personally and I can say that 99% of you, based on what you post here, I wouldn't especially care to know. Those in Goonswarm rushing to defend The Mittani have motive to do so, those rushing to attack him also have motive to do so. I very much fail to see how it accomplishes much of anything frankly. What is more disconcerting in the callous, flippant, nature of the criticism directed at the alledged victim through all of this Suicide and suicide prevention are not something to joke about nor should it be regarded flippantly. A person's rationale for feeling the way they feel is not for us to judge. The worthiness of the reasoning is not important and regardless of what intent this individual had in writing what he wrote the simple fact is that The Mittani and through the CSM; CCP have an obligation to take it seriously That is the true failure here in my opinion. What was said at Fanfest was out of line. What has been written in this threadnaught by some is even more disturbing to me in its callousness. When someone writes what this person wrote you take it seriously and you do what you can as a human being Suicide is a permanent solution to what is very often a temporary situation, it is not a laughing matter. Hiding behind an IP address and a Avatar does not change that What becomes of all this is not for us to decide and whatever penalties result I am sure they will be thoughfully considered. All we should ask of ourselves as a community of adult human beings playing a game is to act with a shred more decency and a little more decorum. The world is watching this and what you put on the internet is written in ink.
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."   --H.L. Mencken