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CSM The Mittani's Misconduct Calls for Resignation - We Did It!

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Celinei X'Mora
Darkside Harvesting Co.
Space.Ghosts
#2041 - 2012-03-27 13:02:43 UTC
Daviclond wrote:
[quote=JTK Fotheringham][quote=Kallynda Nai]


If you worry about cybyer-bullying and use this as a criteria for deciding what MMO to play, EVE wasn't for you anyway. Seriously.



This is what I'm saying. Its allowed in Eve. Has been since I started playing. No one pushes the limits on these rules better than Goons. Does CCP care? Nope. Do we make them care? Nope.

Just saying.

I'm still gonna play the game, it kicks ass. I know where the ignore is.
papamike
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2042 - 2012-03-27 13:06:24 UTC
Jacob Staffuer wrote:

Mittens is grown man in his 20's and he's a lawyer (or paralegal or whatever). He should know better.

There is no excuse.

What does RL job title got to do with it? I would have judged him the same if he was unemployed, if he was a bartender, if he was a doctor, if he was a lawyer, if he collected the garbage.

I care not.
Tanaka Sekigahara
United Space Marine Corp
#2043 - 2012-03-27 13:06:35 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
It's not immoral to mock stupid people.
uhmm, uh, well, actually, it is.Not even sure why you would even care to argue the point, as the entire subculture of somethinhg awful, which you belong to, is self professedly amoral. I mean, thats the whole point of it. Or were you one of those they let in on a waiver???
fgft Athonille
Doomheim
#2044 - 2012-03-27 13:06:40 UTC
funny nobody cared when this story first hit the forums months ago

where were the carebear soapboxes and the butthurt politically correct crowd then
Lenrir Andven
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2045 - 2012-03-27 13:08:06 UTC
papamike wrote:
When I heard the Eve-Radio debate I thought "Hey, you know what, this Mittiani guy actually comes across as quite an intuitive well spoken and thoughtful guy. Clearly his persona is just that- a 'goon' persona. He has a sound knowledge of Eve, and seems like he has his finger on the collective community pulse. Not a bad candidate for CSM. Not a bad candidate at all"

THEN I hear about this whole shitstorm from fanfest. Inciting another player to commit suicide? Surely not the same guy, right?

Well, after reviewing the footage I think that on the one hand the 'PC' crowd has jumped on the 'I hate Mittens" bandwagon. The actual snippet of him 'inciting' the guy to kill himself seems more like a slip of the tounge from a drunk, young idiot and that in lies the problem.

The Mittiani that I saw on that footage is indeed nothing more then a drunken idiot- drunk not only on alcohol (what is it with Eve players and this need to express how drunk they are. Good for you. Why the need to play up the fact youre drunk. Pretty ******* immature boys) but also drunk on some sort of interweb spaceship nerd fame.

And thats the real kick in the proverbials folks. What I saw was a small boy, not capable of handling his drink. The need to showboat his drinking and his idiotic friends jeering him on didnt exactly project a reasonable, mature person to me. Ive had a few beers while playing eve in my time, as im sure alot of people have, but one has to wonder. What the hell was this idiot thinking.

He lost alot of respect from the community by his conduct, remarks about suicide aside. As much as it pains me, he should step down, even though sober he probably would be a good CSM chair. Acting the way he did showed he is actually just a wanker.

Thumbs down Mittens, even though you will probably never read this.


It's was an ALLIANCE panel. Get this into your thick skull. This was not a CSM Panel. If it was a CSM Panel then yes, him acting like this would be detrimental. But this isn't the case. It was an Alliance panel, where those of their own alliance take turns to talk about how awesome/annoying their alliance is. In this case they would be unrestricted. All you need to do is look at the past fan-fests, it's really no different, it just so happens they decided to drink well before-hand this time.

Mittens is, at the end of the day, under no obligation to act like a 'holier than thou' individual. As usual it's the angry mob shouting for unnecessary blood because a guy Mittens mentioned is most likely lieing out the ass about his predicament (who on earth would play EVE while incredibly depressed and with intent to commit suicide?).
JTK Fotheringham
Ducks in Outer Space
#2046 - 2012-03-27 13:09:05 UTC
Daviclond wrote:


If you worry about cybyer-bullying and use this as a criteria for deciding what MMO to play, EVE wasn't for you anyway. Seriously.


Eh?

See, I have no problem with the sort of greifing the Mac pilot was subjected to in game... if he was running 27 accounts, and the Goons smartbombed him, fair play. EVE is hard, I like that, it's why I play.

But this was an out-of-game exchange, that has already generated a huge amount of negative publicity for our game. Our CSM Chair helps to put off new players. And I gonno about you, but new players = more CCP devs making more awesome in-game stuff.

Cyber-bullying is a criteria many prospective players have for deciding on a game, and simply saying "Well EVE's not for you" is just stupid. Why not stamp out cyber-bullying instead? When greifing goes out-of-game it's a problem we should all be united against.
Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#2047 - 2012-03-27 13:10:08 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:
RogueMind wrote:
Kallynda Nai wrote:

Seriously, if you don't think The Mittani is competent, you haven't been paying attention for the past year.


You're right because being one of the people to take the lead on the public outcry during the hub riots and getting us on the road to all these improvements that have come and are coming is a bad thing.



You mean how he showed up way late for the riots and then took credit for them after initially not supporting them?


You serious?


QFT
Kalathia Eginald
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#2048 - 2012-03-27 13:10:16 UTC
papamike wrote:
Considering he is an American Citizen, you and I both know he could very easily have been in the heart of Berlin while making these comments to a German and be confident that there would be no chance whatsoever that he would be tried under German law, so I doubt CCP is too concerned about the implications in Germany.

I do however understand and appreciate your sentiments.


Incorrect. If you visit a country you are bound by its' laws regardless of your country of origin. If you break them you can be punished for doing so by the country in question. Then if we throw in that some contries extend their laws to cover their citizens even in another country and we have a whole mess of law.
knobber Jobbler
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2049 - 2012-03-27 13:12:20 UTC
AtaSaal wrote:
JTK Fotheringham wrote:
[quote=Celinei X'Mora]
Truth is, he blurred the line between in-game griefing, and out-of-game cyber-bullying.



As an party member in Germany, not a lawyer, but speaker for an net policy task force, cyberbulllying is part of my "area" and from the viewpoint of german law, there is no blur.

- He declared this as an real person, and there is no special law for virtual avatars.The same speech ingame would be as troublesome. Being drunk, is no "get out of jail" card.
- Those who follow this, do this as real persons.
- Virtual characters don't make you immune to the law. RP is no excuse. If you deny the Holocaust (crime in Germany, not protected by the right of free speech), no virtuality will save you.
- For Germans, it doesn't matter what law location CCP uses. CCP can act like they want (banning anyone). Acts commited in the web by german citizens are ruled by german law. Principle is the point of origin.
- Going to court... is experimental, depending on international contracts between Germany and the victims country. I know it only for the EU, in this case, an German court would take actions.


So you're going to petition Germany to ban yet another game/form of media? Enforcing the stereo type that Germany isn't very tolerant....because of what one guy playing internet spaceships said to another guy playing internet spaceships? Pathetic. Go outside, take a deep breath, realise its just a game and get over it.

You do realise that the Wis guy might have made the whole thing up as a troll? That is what happens in EVE.

Have you ever been on PSN or Xbox live? It would be a revelation to you, EVE's community is positively joyous to be around once you've experience playing Halo or Gears of War for 10 minutes.
Daviclond
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2050 - 2012-03-27 13:12:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Daviclond
JTK Fotheringham wrote:
Daviclond wrote:


If you worry about cybyer-bullying and use this as a criteria for deciding what MMO to play, EVE wasn't for you anyway. Seriously.



But this was an out-of-game exchange, that has already generated a huge amount of negative publicity for our game. Our CSM Chair helps to put off new players. And I gonno about you, but new players = more CCP devs making more awesome in-game stuff.


CCP has lost absolutely zero subscribers over this. The "publicity" does not exist and nobody cares outside of people who want to see Mittani politically damaged.

Griefing has attracted far, far more players to EVE than it has ever lost it and the lawless reputation of "the sandbox" is something CCP encourages and cultivates. They're obviously going to have to distance themselves from this unnacceptable behaviour (perhaps the individual concerned should write an apology???) but no long-term shift in EVE's reputation will come of this. Well, cya
JTK Fotheringham
Ducks in Outer Space
#2051 - 2012-03-27 13:14:01 UTC  |  Edited by: JTK Fotheringham
Lenrir Andven wrote:


It's was an ALLIANCE panel. Get this into your thick skull. This was not a CSM Panel. If it was a CSM Panel then yes, him acting like this would be detrimental. But this isn't the case. It was an Alliance panel, where those of their own alliance take turns to talk about how awesome/annoying their alliance is. In this case they would be unrestricted. All you need to do is look at the past fan-fests, it's really no different, it just so happens they decided to drink well before-hand this time.

Mittens is, at the end of the day, under no obligation to act like a 'holier than thou' individual. As usual it's the angry mob shouting for unnecessary blood because a guy Mittens mentioned is most likely lieing out the ass about his predicament (who on earth would play EVE while incredibly depressed and with intent to commit suicide?).


You must be one of the crowd who think CCP run Fanfest for the lolz. Fanfest, Blizzcon, etc. are all run because of the opportunity to generate a buzz around great press in the gaming media. The players yelling applause for the latest reveal makes for great press.

So at this media event, the chair of the CSM (argueably, another media ploy itself) gets up and delivers a stinging cyber-bullying attack. What story are the gaming press going to run with the following week?

Honestly, try to understand why this is a problem for CCP, for the game, and probably for Alex personally (because future employers are going to find some poor judgement on his part when they google his name).
AtaSaal
Die..Brut
#2052 - 2012-03-27 13:15:14 UTC
papamike wrote:


Considering he is an American Citizen, you and I both know he could very easily have been in the heart of Berlin while making these comments to a German and be confident that there would be no chance whatsoever that he would be tried under German law, so I doubt CCP is too concerned about the implications in Germany.

I do however understand and appreciate your sentiments.


If he stands physically in Berlin, he would be under German jurisdiction as long he has no diplomatic status. If he sits in a internet cafe in Berlin and encourages cyberbullying, point of origin, it will be punishable by German law (problem could be victims location).
And my advice was more in the direction of the "german" Goons to understand the limits of their goonishment.
A game is no excuse for breaking the law. Being US-citizen doesn't make you immun to national laws.

CCP themself is out of this in the first case.
But for example, if I see an member of an German corp denying the Holocaust and put this before court, court asks CCP for the real persona data, CCP would rather think twice before resisting, especialy since Iceland has a couple of law cooperation contracts with the EU.

Fox Amatin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2053 - 2012-03-27 13:16:23 UTC
We can all get carried away when we're under influence ... Right, that's when we apologies to the person / people we may have hurt that night and make sure it never happens again.

Oh wait he did apologies ... Don't tell me a live broadcast of this would be demanded by anyone here, I'll laugh 'till I'm crying the minute I hear that.
Lenrir Andven
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2054 - 2012-03-27 13:16:48 UTC
JTK Fotheringham wrote:
Daviclond wrote:


If you worry about cybyer-bullying and use this as a criteria for deciding what MMO to play, EVE wasn't for you anyway. Seriously.


Eh?

See, I have no problem with the sort of greifing the Mac pilot was subjected to in game... if he was running 27 accounts, and the Goons smartbombed him, fair play. EVE is hard, I like that, it's why I play.

But this was an out-of-game exchange, that has already generated a huge amount of negative publicity for our game. Our CSM Chair helps to put off new players. And I gonno about you, but new players = more CCP devs making more awesome in-game stuff.

Cyber-bullying is a criteria many prospective players have for deciding on a game, and simply saying "Well EVE's not for you" is just stupid. Why not stamp out cyber-bullying instead? When greifing goes out-of-game it's a problem we should all be united against.


You are contradicting yourself here.

You say 'griefing' this person, who according to what he said is already under intent to /wrist and is on the road of mass depression, is fair play. But commenting about it is cyber-bullying (it's hard to have a 'out-of-game exchange when the said victim has yet to properly reply to this)

This is the problem, you can not have one or the other. You either need to class it all as cyber-bullying and stop it (effectively turning EVE into a PvE game with BG's,) or understand that this was merely a continued exchange of the griefing, which will undoubtedly lead to future issues.

Either way, they both suck, but we have to accept that this is how the cookie crumbles.
Kaivar Lancer
Doomheim
#2055 - 2012-03-27 13:18:16 UTC
Daviclond wrote:

CCP has lost absolutely zero subscribers over this. The "publicity" does not exist and nobody cares outside of people who want to see Mittani politically damaged.

Griefing has attracted far, far more players to EVE than it has ever lost it and the lawless reputation of "the sandbox" is something CCP encourages and cultivates. They're obviously going to have to distance themselves from this unnacceptable behaviour (perhaps the individual concerned should write an apology???) but no long-term shift in EVE's reputation will come of this. Well, cya


Really? New subs have plateaued. In the last 12 months we've had the gold ammo scandal, introduction of MT, monocle-gate and now this. MMOs die. Eve is no exception.
Frying Doom
#2056 - 2012-03-27 13:18:46 UTC
Lenrir Andven wrote:
JTK Fotheringham wrote:
Daviclond wrote:


If you worry about cybyer-bullying and use this as a criteria for deciding what MMO to play, EVE wasn't for you anyway. Seriously.


Eh?

See, I have no problem with the sort of greifing the Mac pilot was subjected to in game... if he was running 27 accounts, and the Goons smartbombed him, fair play. EVE is hard, I like that, it's why I play.

But this was an out-of-game exchange, that has already generated a huge amount of negative publicity for our game. Our CSM Chair helps to put off new players. And I gonno about you, but new players = more CCP devs making more awesome in-game stuff.

Cyber-bullying is a criteria many prospective players have for deciding on a game, and simply saying "Well EVE's not for you" is just stupid. Why not stamp out cyber-bullying instead? When greifing goes out-of-game it's a problem we should all be united against.


You are contradicting yourself here.

You say 'griefing' this person, who according to what he said is already under intent to /wrist and is on the road of mass depression, is fair play. But commenting about it is cyber-bullying (it's hard to have a 'out-of-game exchange when the said victim has yet to properly reply to this)

This is the problem, you can not have one or the other. You either need to class it all as cyber-bullying and stop it (effectively turning EVE into a PvE game with BG's,) or understand that this was merely a continued exchange of the griefing, which will undoubtedly lead to future issues.

Either way, they both suck, but we have to accept that this is how the cookie crumbles.

Do you not understand the difference of in-game and out of game in front of a camera?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
AtaSaal
Die..Brut
#2057 - 2012-03-27 13:21:35 UTC
knobber Jobbler wrote:
]

So you're going to petition Germany to ban yet another game/form of media? Enforcing the stereo type that Germany isn't very tolerant....because of what one guy playing internet spaceships said to another guy playing internet spaceships? Pathetic. Go outside, take a deep breath, realise its just a game and get over it.


You read what you want to read. I wrote about individual responsibility of actions before court in dependance to your juristical physical location.

Take a deep breath, accept laws, even in the internet, regardless with, or without spaceships.
There is no excuse "its just a game" before court.
smokeAjoint
Catch And Release Privateering
#2058 - 2012-03-27 13:21:38 UTC
The Clash

** legalize it**
Daviclond
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2059 - 2012-03-27 13:22:17 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

Do you not understand the difference of in-game and out of game in front of a camera?


Hey, aren't you the creep who tried to rob the only female CSM candidate of her agency?
Lenrir Andven
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2060 - 2012-03-27 13:23:16 UTC
JTK Fotheringham wrote:
Lenrir Andven wrote:


It's was an ALLIANCE panel. Get this into your thick skull. This was not a CSM Panel. If it was a CSM Panel then yes, him acting like this would be detrimental. But this isn't the case. It was an Alliance panel, where those of their own alliance take turns to talk about how awesome/annoying their alliance is. In this case they would be unrestricted. All you need to do is look at the past fan-fests, it's really no different, it just so happens they decided to drink well before-hand this time.

Mittens is, at the end of the day, under no obligation to act like a 'holier than thou' individual. As usual it's the angry mob shouting for unnecessary blood because a guy Mittens mentioned is most likely lieing out the ass about his predicament (who on earth would play EVE while incredibly depressed and with intent to commit suicide?).


You must be one of the crowd who think CCP run Fanfest for the lolz. Fanfest, Blizzcon, etc. are all run because of the opportunity to generate a buzz around great press in the gaming media. The players yelling applause for the latest reveal makes for great press.

So at this media event, the chair of the CSM (argueably, another media ploy itself) gets up and delivers a stinging cyber-bullying attack. What story are the gaming press going to run with the following week?

Honestly, try to understand why this is a problem for CCP, for the game, and probably for Alex personally (because future employers are going to find some poor judgement on his part when they google his name).


Alex is living a good lifestyle. He for one certainly has my respect for being able to relax this early in life. (Also lulz at you for thinking that employers are REALLY going to care about an incident related to internet spaceships. Heck, he certainly is going to get a criminal record for this 'foul' act rite?)

Back on topic, you have missed the point by what I am trying to tell you here. Fanfest has several PANELS. See that, panels. Obviously people would go to Fanfest for either one, some or all of these panels.

Maybe they want to see the new release, maybe they want to see what new updates...or others may want to see the Alliance panels since they know how much of a riot they can be, given previous alliance panels.

See what I did there? It's preference, the people who attend this did NOT have to go the alliance panel, which is normally foul-mouthed and badly behaved anyway.

The only reason the chair of the CSM was even called out was because some 'investigative' gaming journalist in the crowd got extremely 'distressed' and 'upset' about the comments raised and then proceeded to have a article done....in the name of 'justice' and 'peace' of course.