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Logoffski exploit, video proof.

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Tsubutai
Perkone
Caldari State
#201 - 2012-03-26 06:08:14 UTC
The ability to log off in space with a reasonable level of safety (for instance after roaming) is more important than ensuring people can't take advantage of logoff mechanics in the way that freighter pilot did. It's not only working as intended, the devs were talking about making it easier to tell when you're in a safe-to-log-in-space state at fanfest.

It's kind of amazing that a 2008 character wouldn't know about a fairly basic game mechanic, especially one like this that has literally been done to death any number of times before. Also, what lost you the kill in this case was your own bad planning - you lost ~20 seconds of dps because you waited in the next system and therefore had to load grid and cover a 12 AU warp before being able to do anything. You'd have killed him if you'd had the bulk of your dps log off on the gate and then wait at the character selection screen for the redeemer to call point.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#202 - 2012-03-26 07:52:16 UTC
Eve is a complex game, so I can excuse ignorance, although yes, it's INCREDIBLY ODD that a 2008 character has never encountered this before. But the whole claiming it's a petitionable exploit is just dumb. Especially when he's gotten his petition response, yet continues to accuse people of doing this of cheating.
Lexmana
#203 - 2012-03-26 08:38:52 UTC
Tsubutai wrote:
The ability to log off in space with a reasonable level of safety (for instance after roaming) is more important than ensuring people can't take advantage of logoff mechanics in the way that freighter pilot did. It's not only working as intended, the devs were talking about making it easier to tell when you're in a safe-to-log-in-space state at fanfest..

If I am not mistaken, the new logg-off mechanics lets you stay with the ship until it disappears from space and with all timers visible. It is there to support players who are not abusing the system. I am pretty sure loggofski when jumping through a gate is not what they want and therefore it is an exploit. However, it might be an exploit we have to learn to live with. If they could plug this whole without negative consequences for other use cases they would do it in an instant.
Oppon's Pull
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#204 - 2012-03-26 08:41:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Oppon's Pull
This happened to us last week. Pointed, half structure and then BOOP gone. But know what we did? we left our arazu cloaked on the gate for 2 hours and killed the bugger when he logged back in and landed off gate. Problem solved
Gorki Andropov
I Dn't Knw Wht You Wnt Bt I Cn't Gve It Anymre
#205 - 2012-03-26 08:49:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Gorki Andropov
nvm
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#206 - 2012-03-26 08:54:13 UTC  |  Edited by: non judgement
Oppon's Pull wrote:
This happened to us last week. Pointed, half structure and then BOOP gone. But know what we did? we left our arazu cloaked on the gate for 2 hours and killed the bugger when he logged back in and landed off gate. Problem solved

This is great. Exactly the way you should deal with the "problem". Everyone knows you can log off while in space. Logging off at a gate after jumping makes it hard to kill them but it can be done.

If I ever hear about a group of gate campers leaving a gate when a bigger group comes through, I'm going to say they should have stayed to get killed. It's an exploit for them to be able to leave when they know they'll get killed. Cause it's exactly the same thing as logging off right after jumping through a gate. How dare they try to leave when they know they should have stayed to die.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#207 - 2012-03-26 09:30:49 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:
Jump gate log out to cheat on timers.

Seems pretty much like an exploit and not the intent of the rule.

Logging off to avoid timers to get away is not how this stuff is supposed to work. If it is supposed to work that way a CCP DEV better speak up and say so now.


He logged before you aggressed him. Get over it.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#208 - 2012-03-26 13:34:53 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:
NightmareX wrote:

There is 2 totally different things than calling something an exploit just because things didn't work your way than saying CCP will look into it to improve it or make it better.



I dont need their conformation to know its an Exploit. Just the fact that they have to LOOK AT IT says a lot in regards.

Even if they say its OK later. Still is an exploitation of the games mechanics.

It never stops being an exploit.

Ehm, so just because it's an exploit to you, it is an exploit to CCP to even when they havent said a single word about being an exploit?

And the fact that this mechanic have been like this for ages (yes i know how most of the game mechanics works since i have been playing EVE since early 2004), it would absolutely have been decleared an exploit a long long time ago IF this had been an exploit since this kind of things about the log off mechanics was being talked about many many times earlier until CCP changed it and everyone was happy about it.

And if someone like you would take that as an exploit long time ago, then why would no one declear that as an exploit earlier when it's so obvious by you that it's an exploit now?

Do you really think that you are the only one to know how those mechanics works just out of the blue sky?

Why would no one else declear this as an exploit earlier when it's pretty easy to understand the whole mechanics behind all of this?

EDIT: And the fact that you compare the log off mechanics with the web tactic that prevents us from warping out is kinda funny. Because when someone does the web exploit, the targets can't do a damn thing to prevent them from dying, while a freighter that logs off in low sec before he gets agressed doesn't prevent you from killing it at all, for 1 minute that is.

All it prevents you from is to kill it if you have to few DPS ships available in that 1 minute moment.

So at the end of the day, bring more DPS ships so no freighters can get away.

Is that so hard?

Quoting my self to see if you RougeOperator want to answer my post here?

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#209 - 2012-03-26 13:42:31 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:

This is just mindbogglingly bad over site as far as I can tell.

If i dont have 50 guys in BCs and BSes that can tank gate guns we cant gank a freighter is what it comes down too.

Laying the trap like we did was worthless cause we had to be right there on gate from the start to make sure it died before the timer. That window of opportunity is freaking too small. Its just asinine to say the least cause it basically prevents us from setting up any traps. All your DPS must be on gate when it jumps through basically. We even avoided the scout of the guy by moving around a lot so he would feel safe enough to jump in!

Its utter rubbish that this is in game and possible.

so you failed at ganking and CCP needs to fix it?

Roll

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#210 - 2012-03-26 14:15:19 UTC  |  Edited by: March rabbit
....

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#211 - 2012-03-26 14:26:34 UTC
NightmareX wrote:

Ehm, so just because it's an exploit to you, it is an exploit to CCP to even when they havent said a single word about being an exploit?

And the fact that this mechanic have been like this for ages (yes i know how most of the game mechanics works since i have been playing EVE since early 2004), it would absolutely have been decleared an exploit a long long time ago IF this had been an exploit since this kind of things about the log off mechanics was being talked about many many times earlier until CCP changed it and everyone was happy about it.

And if someone like you would take that as an exploit long time ago, then why would no one declear that as an exploit earlier when it's so obvious by you that it's an exploit now?

Do you really think that you are the only one to know how those mechanics works just out of the blue sky?

Why would no one else declear this as an exploit earlier when it's pretty easy to understand the whole mechanics behind all of this?

EDIT: And the fact that you compare the log off mechanics with the web tactic that prevents us from warping out is kinda funny. Because when someone does the web exploit, the targets can't do a damn thing to prevent them from dying, while a freighter that logs off in low sec before he gets agressed doesn't prevent you from killing it at all, for 1 minute that is.

All it prevents you from is to kill it if you have to few DPS ships available in that 1 minute moment.

So at the end of the day, bring more DPS ships so no freighters can get away.

Is that so hard?


The fact that the mechanic exists as it does does not therefore mean use of it in this way is not an exploit. It's not hard to imagine a case where something is unfair, but hasn't been brought to CCP's attention. A dev has said they will look at it, which indicates it may be an exploit.

I'll say again, CCP doesn't appear to like it when people log off to save their ships when tarped, and has included mechanics to prevent players from doing so. I believe the "JUST BRING MORE DPS NOOB" argument was used in regards to Titans logging out as well.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#212 - 2012-03-26 14:49:13 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
NightmareX wrote:

Ehm, so just because it's an exploit to you, it is an exploit to CCP to even when they havent said a single word about being an exploit?

And the fact that this mechanic have been like this for ages (yes i know how most of the game mechanics works since i have been playing EVE since early 2004), it would absolutely have been decleared an exploit a long long time ago IF this had been an exploit since this kind of things about the log off mechanics was being talked about many many times earlier until CCP changed it and everyone was happy about it.

And if someone like you would take that as an exploit long time ago, then why would no one declear that as an exploit earlier when it's so obvious by you that it's an exploit now?

Do you really think that you are the only one to know how those mechanics works just out of the blue sky?

Why would no one else declear this as an exploit earlier when it's pretty easy to understand the whole mechanics behind all of this?

EDIT: And the fact that you compare the log off mechanics with the web tactic that prevents us from warping out is kinda funny. Because when someone does the web exploit, the targets can't do a damn thing to prevent them from dying, while a freighter that logs off in low sec before he gets agressed doesn't prevent you from killing it at all, for 1 minute that is.

All it prevents you from is to kill it if you have to few DPS ships available in that 1 minute moment.

So at the end of the day, bring more DPS ships so no freighters can get away.

Is that so hard?


The fact that the mechanic exists as it does does not therefore mean use of it in this way is not an exploit. It's not hard to imagine a case where something is unfair, but hasn't been brought to CCP's attention. A dev has said they will look at it, which indicates it may be an exploit.

I'll say again, CCP doesn't appear to like it when people log off to save their ships when tarped, and has included mechanics to prevent players from doing so. I believe the "JUST BRING MORE DPS NOOB" argument was used in regards to Titans logging out as well.

Kinda funny that it would gets into CCP's attention now just because of this topic?

I'm pretty sure that this would be taken up ages ago if it had been such a problem.

And if the titan logs off before he gets an aggression, then he have no aggression and SHOULD disapear after one minute. It's that simple.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#213 - 2012-03-26 15:07:13 UTC
NightmareX wrote:

Kinda funny that it would gets into CCP's attention now just because of this topic?

I'm pretty sure that this would be taken up ages ago if it had been such a problem.

And if the titan logs off before he gets an aggression, then he have no aggression and SHOULD disapear after one minute. It's that simple.


Yes. This topic brought it to their attention. That was my point.

You misunderstand. Titans were able to log off under aggression and would always disappear after 15 minutes. This was abused by Titan owners to save their Titans when they were trapped and had a chance to live through those 15 minutes. So basically the same thing as this freighter/gatecloak logoffski but with supercaps. This was deemed unfair, and changed so that it is no longer possible to log off a Titan under aggression to save it.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#214 - 2012-03-26 15:15:23 UTC
If this was changed, how would freighter pilots change their behavior? Simple: stop going into low sec. If the freighter does not go into low sec in the first place, it cannot be killed in low sec. Then instead of getting kills by bringing sufficient firepower, you get none at all.

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RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#215 - 2012-03-26 15:17:33 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
If this was changed, how would freighter pilots change their behavior? Simple: stop going into low sec. If the freighter does not go into low sec in the first place, it cannot be killed in low sec. Then instead of getting kills by bringing sufficient firepower, you get none at all.



Im fine with that. Thats how it should be.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **
Prince Kobol
#216 - 2012-03-26 15:19:41 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
If this was changed, how would freighter pilots change their behavior? Simple: stop going into low sec. If the freighter does not go into low sec in the first place, it cannot be killed in low sec. Then instead of getting kills by bringing sufficient firepower, you get none at all.



Im fine with that. Thats how it should be.



WTF !!!

Any other ship you feel shouldn't be low sec?
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#217 - 2012-03-26 15:22:17 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
NightmareX wrote:

Kinda funny that it would gets into CCP's attention now just because of this topic?

I'm pretty sure that this would be taken up ages ago if it had been such a problem.

And if the titan logs off before he gets an aggression, then he have no aggression and SHOULD disapear after one minute. It's that simple.


Yes. This topic brought it to their attention. That was my point.

You misunderstand. Titans were able to log off under aggression and would always disappear after 15 minutes. This was abused by Titan owners to save their Titans when they were trapped and had a chance to live through those 15 minutes. So basically the same thing as this freighter/gatecloak logoffski but with supercaps. This was deemed unfair, and changed so that it is no longer possible to log off a Titan under aggression to save it.

So you mean no one was smart enough to bring it up to CCP's attention before?

I mean, come on, use your brain. If this had been such a problem, this would be taken up to CCP's attention ages ago.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#218 - 2012-03-26 15:25:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Simi Kusoni
NightmareX wrote:
So you mean no one was smart enough to bring it up to CCP's attention before?

I mean, come on, use your brain. If this had been such a problem, this would be taken up to CCP's attention ages ago.

It has been raised, countless times, in the features and ideas discussion section.

Also, CCP if you haven't noticed ignore some things because they're simply tricky to fix. They tend to get round to it only after a fuss is kicked up about it. Sometimes that takes a while.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#219 - 2012-03-26 15:31:21 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
So you mean no one was smart enough to bring it up to CCP's attention before?

I mean, come on, use your brain. If this had been such a problem, this would be taken up to CCP's attention ages ago.

It has been raised, countless times, in the features and ideas discussion section.

Also, CCP if you haven't noticed ignore some things because they're simply tricky to fix. They tend to get round to it only after a fuss is kicked up about it. Sometimes that takes a while.

How would it be tricky to remove the 1 minute timer totally?

Because that's what the OP is crying for.

It would take CCP 5 minutes to remove that from the game.

Again, if this had been such an issue, it would be fixed a long time ago by CCP.

The thing here with the OP's suggestion is that we can't log off in space without letting our ships disapear after 1 minute. What he want is to let every ships in EVE even after logging off safely to be in space for 15 mins.

Therefor most players wont support this.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#220 - 2012-03-26 15:37:51 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
If this was changed, how would freighter pilots change their behavior? Simple: stop going into low sec. If the freighter does not go into low sec in the first place, it cannot be killed in low sec. Then instead of getting kills by bringing sufficient firepower, you get none at all.



Im fine with that. Thats how it should be.



WTF !!!

Any other ship you feel shouldn't be low sec?



Any that are flown by pilots that arnt willing to risk what they can afford to lose.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **