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Transracial crosstraining. Buffed rewards pls.

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Crellion
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#61 - 2012-03-16 14:41:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Crellion
Tippia wrote:
Crellion wrote:
I disagree that it has been like this for ages and no one complains.
Yeah, no, that's not really what I said, so I don't know what you're disagreeing with here.
Can't tell you now I am 3 legal documents down the line too l8 in the day... read again it might help or not.

Quote:
As to your main thrust that actually specializing is currently less rewarded than corsstraining (I do hope you mean RACIAL crosstraining because that is what I am discussing /proposing) then I disagree
There is no other form of cross-training.
Why do you disagree?


I think 99% of the siruations are covered with two races and the rest is just added flavor no real advantage. Whereas getting a new class in the same time does provide actual advantages. I did say however I disagree, but... agian refer back if need be too tired here too l8 in the day with a difficult S&P transaction. Sorry for messing up the immersion :)

EDIT Went and found it: I said I disagree "but if you are right then indeed the whole thread is moot and no change is needed."

What I am looking for is the CCP carrot to ocnvince you to build a character sideways past the first 2 races and all the way to the 4th... INSTEAD of using the same time / SP investment to go up into more classes.
Crellion
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#62 - 2012-03-16 14:47:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Crellion
Andrea Griffin wrote:
Pheusia wrote:
What are you talking about? Getting access to 5 new T2 cruisers at level 5 is an incredible incentive to train another Cruiser 5.
This is the reason my PvP pilot has yet to stick a single battleship skill into her brain. Three years and nothing but frigates and cruisers. I'm running out of frigate / cruiser level stuff to train though. Ohnoes. : < I don't regret training this way - the amount of stuff I can fly is mind boggling and I have a ship for every occasion.

Even though it would benefit me, I don't see a need for a "its like every ship but better" thing floating around. Also, where would it fit in lore-wise? Would the Jovians be making these ships?

I'm not sure that they would even be flown much anyway. Specialization beats generalization, and I would rather have CCP work on ships that fill a specific role and would actually be useful. The All Four Uber Race ship just doesn't sound like it would add much to the game other than a gimmick.


In your 3 years spent on cruisers did you first do ALL 4 races HACs, or first a HAC then a Recon, then a Hictor then another race HAC or Recon and so on and so forth.

It might be that deep down you agree with some of what I say...
Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2012-03-16 15:57:10 UTC
The carrot to cross-train is already there. Explain how you're finding 2 races fit 99% of situations?

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#64 - 2012-03-16 16:10:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Crellion wrote:
I think 99% of the siruations are covered with two races and the rest is just added flavor no real advantage.
Yeah, no. Each race has its strengths and weaknesses, often across completely different classes of ships.

Quote:
I did say however I disagree
Yes, but why?

Quote:
In your 3 years spent on cruisers did you first do ALL 4 races HACs, or first a HAC then a Recon, then a Hictor then another race HAC or Recon and so on and so forth.
The latter way of training isn't even possible, you know that right?
Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2012-03-16 16:18:53 UTC
The thing I don't get is, I think almost every person in this thread is cross-training. It's not like this is a case of the Rock saying that Scissors is fine.

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21
Nex apparatu5
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#66 - 2012-03-16 16:44:59 UTC
Halete wrote:
The thing I don't get is, I think almost every person in this thread is cross-training. It's not like this is a case of the Rock saying that Scissors is fine.


It's a guy who wants to introduce "gun" to rock paper scissors because he's been playing for longer than they have and wondering why people are getting mad at upsetting the balance.
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2012-03-16 16:58:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Buzzmong
The "ships" proposed in the OP are the equivalent of bringing a tactical nuke to a game of rock-paper-scissors.

For those not in the know, rock-paper-scissors is how EVE is designed on the ships/weapons front. Everything has a hard counter in the form of another system (well, ECM is marginal).

The OP proposing ships where the only counter would be more of them. Which is the problem CCP are just dealing with for Super Carriers and Titans.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#68 - 2012-03-16 17:15:08 UTC
If you are really that bored you can always train for sancha carrier, looks awesome but seems no one wants it (I do, send me the bpo ! )

I'm against something that will obviously and once again profit to older players. If you don't understand why then let me ask you why shouldn't the sp reward go accordingly with time spent/invested playing the game.

I'll finish with a no no no no and again, no
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#69 - 2012-03-16 19:08:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrus Blackshell
Relevant.

Ed: I might actually start linking videos of cats saying "nononono" on all bad idea threads. I'm not sure if there are more videos than threads or vice versa.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#70 - 2012-03-16 19:12:11 UTC
I personally don't mind faction ships that require all racial ship skills at 3-5. I'd expect the ships to be somewhere between pirate ships and T3s in both cost and ability. I'd rather have them rebalance the Tier system though.

/shrug

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#71 - 2012-03-16 19:21:36 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Relevant.

Ed: I might actually start linking videos of cats saying "nononono" on all bad idea threads. I'm not sure if there are more videos than threads or vice versa.


Waaaay more bad ideas than videos...

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#72 - 2012-03-16 20:00:43 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
I personally don't mind faction ships that require all racial ship skills at 3-5. I'd expect the ships to be somewhere between pirate ships and T3s in both cost and ability. I'd rather have them rebalance the Tier system though.

/shrug

-Liang

Jovian faction ships? Big smile

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#73 - 2012-03-16 20:02:42 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
I personally don't mind faction ships that require all racial ship skills at 3-5. I'd expect the ships to be somewhere between pirate ships and T3s in both cost and ability. I'd rather have them rebalance the Tier system though.

/shrug

-Liang

Jovian faction ships? Big smile


Meh, doesn't have to be Jovian. But I'm totally fine with more faction ships. I would be though, eh?

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#74 - 2012-03-16 21:46:41 UTC
Yo, Thukker mix, Minmatar speed/agility, Caldari missiles.

**** would own so hard.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#75 - 2012-03-16 21:50:14 UTC
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Yo, Thukker mix, Minmatar speed/agility, Caldari missiles.

**** would own so hard.


+1, confirming I would like to see this. :)

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#76 - 2012-03-17 06:37:09 UTC
Jove ships as T2 Pirate/Navy/Faction ships!

Winmatar skill boosts their speed and tracking
Caldari skill boosts their optimal and shield resists
Amarr skill boosts their laser damage and ROF
Gallente skill boosts their armor resist and gives drone bonuses

turret # is halved, with a +100% laser damage bonus like on marauders/the nightmare

[sarcasm]It'd be completely balanced, so you can make them as common as T1 ships, and not restrict the supply to a very small number of BPCs given out per year[/sarcasm]
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#77 - 2012-03-17 07:57:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Verity Sovereign wrote:
[sarcasm]It'd be completely balanced, so you can make them as common as T1 ships, and not restrict the supply to a very small number of BPCs given out per year[/sarcasm]

Make it require all racial battlecruiser and destroyer V. After the change that is. And lose skillpoints when you get blown up.

Or subsystems, I guess.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2012-03-19 07:54:56 UTC
I'm not fundamentally against faction ships that require all racials. Seems like it could be cool.

... You know, so long as they aren't balanced as OP is suggesting. Also, there's a kind of bitter sweetness after seeing this thread get more support (against it) after being up for 40 hours and getting on the EVE forums (from the office, so don't even suggest sleeping).

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21
Nnam Pir
Nnam Fleet
#79 - 2012-03-19 11:34:16 UTC
The big benefit of cross-training for other race's ships is the extra options. That alone is a big benefit.
Crellion
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#80 - 2012-03-19 12:41:35 UTC
Nnam Pir wrote:
The big benefit of cross-training for other race's ships is the extra options. That alone is a big benefit.


It was a huge benefit 5 years ago, especially from having one race to having two races vessels at your disposal. Is that still the case after all weapon systems and vessels beconing more and more same-ish over the years? Is it rwardign enough to go from 3 races to 4 as well??? Compared with the advantages of gaining other ship classes in the same type?