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Incoming titan adjustments

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Pesadel0
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1321 - 2012-03-14 08:21:22 UTC
Andski wrote:
Crystal Wolf wrote:
Listening to the "majority" usually does make sense however all CCP are doing is hurting one group of the playerbase by aiding another. Granted it would be almost impossible to create a solution that both groups are happy with but they can do better than this.

only one ship class should be relevant in eve online



Go to sleep brah i'am starting to worry you will get ill, and we will lose one of the best goon posters.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#1322 - 2012-03-14 08:23:27 UTC
Im in construction, but thanks, I like it.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Sidus Isaacs
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1323 - 2012-03-14 08:30:01 UTC
Some nice changes.
Sigras
Conglomo
#1324 - 2012-03-14 08:38:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Sigras
Sigras
Conglomo
#1325 - 2012-03-14 08:39:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Sigras
Ok honestly guys i keep hearing people say that titans were only a problem when attacking stupid drake pilots who were double shield extended and shield rigged while running their MWD and heading straight at the titans, but otherwise they were fine, so, being a geek, i decided to do the math,

and its true, an MWDing drake with shield rigs and and a single LSE has a really good chance of being hit at 90km (53.78%) even with perfect transversal, but i considered that this was kinda ridiculous and anyone that stupid deserves to be killed; then I found something crazy a harbinger, naked, not running an MWD or having a plate/armor rigs to slow it down still has an 44.95% chance to be hit at 90km

Then I thought about a cruiser, and it turns out a naked devoter has a 11.41% chance to be hit at 90 km even if it has perfect transversal

The scariest thing was that this is using 2 T2 tracking enhancers, 2 T2 tracking computers, 6x2500mm Repeting artillery I, and Titanium Sabot XL ammo, no officer/deadspace or even faction mods

Why 90km you ask? well because its really easy to warp your two groups of titans 100 km from eachother
Pesadel0
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1326 - 2012-03-14 08:54:42 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Ok honestly guys i keep hearing people say that titans were only a problem when attacking stupid drake pilots who were double shield extended and shield rigged while running their MWD and heading straight at the titans, but otherwise they were fine, so, being a geek, i decided to do the math,

and its true, an MWDing drake with shield rigs and and a single LSE has a really good chance of being hit at 90km (53.78%) even with perfect transversal, but i considered that this was kinda ridiculous and anyone that stupid deserves to be killed; then I found something crazy a harbinger, naked, not running an MWD or having a plate/armor rigs to slow it down still has an 44.95% chance to be hit at 90km

Then I thought about a cruiser, and it turns out a naked devoter has a 11.41% chance to be hit at 90 km even if it has perfect transversal

The scariest thing was that this is using 2 T2 tracking enhancers, 2 T2 tracking computers, 6x2500mm Repeting artillery I, and Titanium Sabot XL ammo, no officer/deadspace or even faction mods

Why 90km you ask? well because its really easy to warp your two groups of titans 100 km from eachother



what would be a harbringer doing 90Km of a tracking titan doing anyway?
Pheusia
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1327 - 2012-03-14 08:56:05 UTC
Titan Keeper 22 wrote:
You 90% of Goonswarm/pets that are arguing against the people opposing the titan nerf are just talking about the same thing over and over.

Maybe it's time to stop the useless arguments and stop the trolling. You can always use your own/other alliance forum to troll; I bet there are plenty of space to do so. Trolling will not help with anything. But feeding them, will obviously make things worse.

and here are couple of my thoughts;

- CCP employee's and the CSMs aren't all geniuses; you think they are all from IVY League and with 150IQ+? If so, then we'd be glad to have your decison about this. They should not think of themselves nor listen only to those people wanting the nerf. As a titan pilot myself, I am not against the nerf entirely, but surely am disagreing about the fact that this is all going one-sided for the moment. You people can't be making decisions like communists. Wherever the idea came out from, balance it out evenly. Due to so many opposition on this adjustment fix, I am pretty sure that there are other better ways to improove this current situation.(should look back at what you did/ when you were working on supercarrier nerf and the shield carrier fix; you listened to everyone, made a great desicion/patch, and the feedback/result came back positive)



p.s. this one's to help those trolls talking about posting in alts out; most of Goonswarm and their pets' titan pilots are obviously posting with their alts to argue about the nerf then come back to troll about it. this is common sense.(PL Raiden NC. have no reason to post with their alts; why would they bother protecting their opposing side? oh unless they're planning to join the other side later on that is.)



I for one think we can trust the opinion of a guy called "titankeeper 22" to be objective in this debate.
BioZvin
The Acheron
Unforgiving.
#1328 - 2012-03-14 08:56:44 UTC  |  Edited by: BioZvin
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Ikoma Sunblazer wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
The scan res number is balanced around multiple Cormack's sensor boosters, on the assumption that money is not a limiting factor for titan pilots, and therefore that people will shell out for officer SBs if that lets them continue do this kind of thing.



All things aside, this is a pretty hilarious assumption that doesn't make sense in context. With a base sensor strength of 5, you are talking about a few seconds difference between t2 and cormack out of a probable minute+ lock time.

Well worth the 4b+ sensor booster imo Lol


Gains you 25s against frigates (105 to 79, assuming 3 are fitted), 15s against cruisers (64 to 49) and 10s against battleships (44 to 33).

If you see this as a big difference, then it's worth balancing around the officer fit given that dropping 12bn on SBs is not a huge fraction of the outlay for a properly-fit titan. If you don't see this as a big difference, then balancing around the officer fit isn't a big deal because it's not having a major impact. Either way, it's a functional assumption Smile


So you assume and now require us to fit officer on titans for the ship to work , you need to change quite a few ships then....
Pesadel0
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1329 - 2012-03-14 08:59:10 UTC
BioZvin wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Ikoma Sunblazer wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
The scan res number is balanced around multiple Cormack's sensor boosters, on the assumption that money is not a limiting factor for titan pilots, and therefore that people will shell out for officer SBs if that lets them continue do this kind of thing.



All things aside, this is a pretty hilarious assumption that doesn't make sense in context. With a base sensor strength of 5, you are talking about a few seconds difference between t2 and cormack out of a probable minute+ lock time.

Well worth the 4b+ sensor booster imo Lol


Gains you 25s against frigates (105 to 79, assuming 3 are fitted), 15s against cruisers (64 to 49) and 10s against battleships (44 to 33).

If you see this as a big difference, then it's worth balancing around the officer fit given that dropping 12bn on SBs is not a huge fraction of the outlay for a properly-fit titan. If you don't see this as a big difference, then balancing around the officer fit isn't a big deal because it's not having a major impact. Either way, it's a functional assumption Smile


So you assume and now require us to fit officer on titans for the ship to work , you need to change quite a few ships then....


MK3 coming next , rifters with officer fitted as a base for PVP.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1330 - 2012-03-14 09:03:03 UTC
Sigras wrote:
and its true, an MWDing drake with shield rigs and and a single LSE has a really good chance of being hit at 90km (53.78%) even with perfect transversal, but i considered that this was kinda ridiculous and anyone that stupid deserves to be killed; then I found something crazy a harbinger, naked, not running an MWD or having a plate/armor rigs to slow it down still has an 44.95% chance to be hit at 90km
Well, this is the thing people forget about MWDs: they don't make much difference for tracking.

Yes, they bloom your sig, but they also increase your speed, so that larger, easier-to-hit target is now moving faster, making it harder to hit. Conversely, yes, they increase your speed, but they also bloom your sig. Either way, the end result is that and MWDing target is roughly as easy to hit as a non-mwd:ing target. Depending on the meta of the MWD, it's a matter of a few percent here or there — not enough to make any drastic difference unless we're talking about something that gets a speed or a sig bonus.

…so any kind of argument along the lines of “but he was MWDing, of course he's easy to hit” only shows a lack of understanding of how tracking works.
evereplicant
Doomheim
#1331 - 2012-03-14 09:11:14 UTC
Tarsus Zateki wrote:
evereplicant wrote:
damn what is PL going to do now? I mean no more super blobs for them, how will they survive? How are they going to cope not whoring on pod and noobship killmails?

+1 CCP



Yes how will PL live with being able to kill other capital ships with the same efficiency they do currently. The sky has fallen now that PL will forced to keep killing capital ships left right and center! Oh the humanity!



You really are a dumb goon. Maybe if you read into the message properly you would understand it was meant about subcaps. I thought the noob ships and pods might have given it away. But you are too stupid to realise that
Pheusia
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1332 - 2012-03-14 09:21:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Pheusia
Grath Telkin wrote:
Im in construction, but thanks, I like it.


Tell us more about your intention to make extra cash by RMTing your Titans now you can't use them to hotdrop BC gangs

Grath wrote:
Selling off all the titans, RMTing the isk, mass purchasing ISboxer and buying up all the accounts because what matters now in EVE:



Nothing but numbers....
Tsubutai
Perkone
Caldari State
#1333 - 2012-03-14 09:27:10 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Sigras wrote:
and its true, an MWDing drake with shield rigs and and a single LSE has a really good chance of being hit at 90km (53.78%) even with perfect transversal, but i considered that this was kinda ridiculous and anyone that stupid deserves to be killed; then I found something crazy a harbinger, naked, not running an MWD or having a plate/armor rigs to slow it down still has an 44.95% chance to be hit at 90km
Well, this is the thing people forget about MWDs: they don't make much difference for tracking.

Yes, they bloom your sig, but they also increase your speed, so that larger, easier-to-hit target is now moving faster, making it harder to hit. Conversely, yes, they increase your speed, but they also bloom your sig. Either way, the end result is that and MWDing target is roughly as easy to hit as a non-mwd:ing target. Depending on the meta of the MWD, it's a matter of a few percent here or there — not enough to make any drastic difference unless we're talking about something that gets a speed or a sig bonus.

…so any kind of argument along the lines of “but he was MWDing, of course he's easy to hit” only shows a lack of understanding of how tracking works.

You get the full sig bloom for as long as the MWD is on but only move at maximum speed for some of that time. In general, MWDing will absolutely make you get harder and more often, especially if you're in a relatively tight orbit in a ship with poor agility.
Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1334 - 2012-03-14 09:27:20 UTC
knobber Jobbler wrote:
Spurty wrote:
Titans no longer FOTM shocker.

New FOTM, bring x 3 to x 5 the number of ships to every fight.

Can we please get hit points on ALL ships 1/2'ed or even dropped to 1/3 now (don't change anything else!)

Feel free to balance this by increasing structure hitpoints.

Happy days :-0


This is coming from the guys who blob Maels and call themselves normal players.

Maels have ruined EVE for long enough, time to suck it up and do things like everyone else.


Playing devils advocate here.

Australian Fanfest Event https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=90062
Titan Keeper 22
Doomheim
#1335 - 2012-03-14 09:29:09 UTC
Powers Sa wrote:
Titan Keeper 22 wrote:

- CCP employee's and the CSMs aren't all geniuses; you think they are all from IVY League and with 150IQ+? If so, then we'd be glad to have your decision about this. They should not think of themselves nor listen only to those people wanting the nerf. As a titan pilot myself, I am not against the nerf entirely, but surely am disagreeing about the fact that this is all going one-sided for the moment. You people can't be making decisions like communists. Wherever the idea came out from, balance it out evenly. Due to so many opposition on this adjustment fix, I am pretty sure that there are other better ways to improve this current situation.(should look back at what you did/ when you were working on supercarrier nerf and the shield carrier fix; you listened to everyone, made a great desicion/patch, and the feedback/result came back positive)


Most of the large alliance leadership happen to be extremely smart and successful in real life.
Shadoo (leader of PL): Architect-ed HP's Sharepoint deployment. Also a published expert on Microsoft Sharepoint. While incredibly smug, but he's earned it. He just so happens to be smarter than you. He posted a well structured rebuttal that voices the frustration that most of you terrible pubbies have. If you'd take a page out of his book and intelligently structure your rebuttals then CCP would actually give a crap about what you have to say.
Trebor (CSM) - Conceived Wizardry . He's a large reason you have RPG video games. He's on the CSM and smarter than you.
The Mittani (Chairman for life) - Retired high priced Washington, D.C. hot shot lawyer. motherf***ing king of space. Has been the most intelligently vocal mouthpiece of the largest player bloc (28,000 strong). Just going out on a limb here, but I'd venture to guess he's smarter than you.
Grath Teklien - I don't know what grath does in real life, but I hope he's a federal judge, because that would be amazing and utterly priceless. He may be wrong, but at least he commits to defend his position through multiple pages of dribble. He's smarter than you.
CCP Soundwave - Funnier, wittier, and smarter than you. Unfortunately he says UHHHHHHHH a lot, but I won't hold it against him, because he's probably thinking in viking and translating it to English.
Seleene didn't cut it at CCP, but he's probably smarter than you.

I don't really care enough to keep going, but I guess my point is: Post on your main, or get out.

P.S. I just spellchecked and fixed your post for you. I guess I'm smarter than you too.



i mean no offence to any of those people above,

but out of all those people you have listed, which one of them have actually had influence on the comming changes of the titan?
and their jobs may indicate the fact of their smartness, but in what criteria? i've only mentioned 'genius', 'IVY League', and 'IQ' as reference and none of them seem to match. though they could partially be matched in your way of thinking, you've clearly did not understand what i was trying to say; obviously those three references were just metaphorical words to state the fact that those influencing people, just by working themselves, can not lead and design the game properly such in a way that may satisfy vast majority of the players equally.

and do you think you can give me a single name of a game copy that had not failed, made by a company which has employees' that had favourited one particular thought or a group of people but then didn't give a damn of the majority(that includes people)?

I hear that a lot, maybe all, of the most successful games - League of Legends/Starcraft II/WoW/BattleField 3/Warcraft III/Counter Strike/COD:ModernWarfare/ balance out game mechanic based on people's thoughts and inputs but not on their(employee could include beta testers as well.) own. they surely could've made a success without majority of the players input and thoughts but with communist like group of people only.

here's the short version -

the game designer/ balancing team/ CSM/ whomever that gives influence need to be listening to everyone voice, not just goonswarm/cfc

obviously you're mad at somthing, because i'm guessing you have no life but only on the internet, you have to be somthing. get e-peen out of this. or else you have no way of getting dophamine. am i right?

so you're telling me to get out? you think you own this place? this forum? this company? just because you're from Goonswarm?

i think you've stayed in communist-like environment for too long.

i dont think anyone's curious about my identity other than you or the GS; becaues you see, have i insulted anyone with this character? have i said anything about what should be changed of the april titan fix?

wasting hell of a time to do a research and do background checks on people that dont give a damn about you just to prove nothing which has nothing to do with this topic..comparing my smartness to other people and then using it for insulting..telling me to get out because i do not post in my main..

you just really suck at trolling
Kern Walzky
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#1336 - 2012-03-14 09:33:21 UTC
The problem is the current mechanics of shooting structures. You DONT need capitals or supers.....
So now we have a range of capital killing & Structure killing ships that will never be used.

If your so into easy changes CCP nerf subcaps to NOT be able to shoot any kind of structures except custom offices.

This will force capitals out and the use for the multi nerfed expensive Supers will atleast be there somewhere.

Otherwise i just wasted so many many months of training, i used all my isk on an mercedes(titan) and got a Fiat(Space elevator).
All this with no refund, no nothing.

CCP you really must start making those big changes to game mechanics instead of nerf's all over the place....

last thing.. a question.

to the simple pilot. what do you think you want to train to when you reach 100+mill Skillpoints??? i guess supers is not on your plan right...but what then...when you fly everything else....but hey perhaps you can walk in stations? hey or play another game perhaps???

Naaah CCP, all players are going to be so happy with this change in the long run im sure....What?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1337 - 2012-03-14 09:34:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Tsubutai wrote:
You get the full sig bloom for as long as the MWD is on but only move at maximum speed for some of that time. In general, MWDing will absolutely make you get harder and more often, especially if you're in a relatively tight orbit in a ship with poor agility.
Sure, but that is a function of relative movement (which is already what screws you over in tracking situations), and has less to do with the MWD itself. It's the kind of categorical statements that MWD = huge = easy to hit that I'm pointing to, because it's simply not true as stated — tracking doesn't work that way.

Titan Keeper 22 wrote:
the game designer/ balancing team/ CSM/ whomever that gives influence need to be listening to everyone voice, not just goonswarm/cfc
They are. That's why this is happening in spite of an insignificant number of players crying over it.
Danny John-Peter
The Congregation
RAPID HEAVY ROPERS
#1338 - 2012-03-14 09:40:30 UTC
While this comment is going to get buried in trolling in the QQ and trolling, shield Scaps should have a slightly higher base sensor resolution, being they cant really afford to fill there mids with Cormacks Sebos, because you know, tanking.

Please +1 this, or just continue to QQ, I dont own one, its just something to be considered.
Pesadel0
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1339 - 2012-03-14 09:43:45 UTC
Danny John-Peter wrote:
While this comment is going to get buried in trolling in the QQ and trolling, shield Scaps should have a slightly higher base sensor resolution, being they cant really afford to fill there mids with Cormacks Sebos, because you know, tanking.

Please +1 this, or just continue to QQ, I dont own one, its just something to be considered.



Having a shield super for like 6 months , i really think CCP doesnt give a rats *** for shield supers, no implants for more shield etc.
CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1340 - 2012-03-14 09:47:06 UTC
Titan Keeper 22 wrote:
Powers Sa wrote:
Titan Keeper 22 wrote:

- CCP employee's and the CSMs aren't all geniuses; you think they are all from IVY League and with 150IQ+? If so, then we'd be glad to have your decision about this. They should not think of themselves nor listen only to those people wanting the nerf. As a titan pilot myself, I am not against the nerf entirely, but surely am disagreeing about the fact that this is all going one-sided for the moment. You people can't be making decisions like communists. Wherever the idea came out from, balance it out evenly. Due to so many opposition on this adjustment fix, I am pretty sure that there are other better ways to improve this current situation.(should look back at what you did/ when you were working on supercarrier nerf and the shield carrier fix; you listened to everyone, made a great desicion/patch, and the feedback/result came back positive)


Most of the large alliance leadership happen to be extremely smart and successful in real life.
Shadoo (leader of PL): Architect-ed HP's Sharepoint deployment. Also a published expert on Microsoft Sharepoint. While incredibly smug, but he's earned it. He just so happens to be smarter than you. He posted a well structured rebuttal that voices the frustration that most of you terrible pubbies have. If you'd take a page out of his book and intelligently structure your rebuttals then CCP would actually give a crap about what you have to say.
Trebor (CSM) - Conceived Wizardry . He's a large reason you have RPG video games. He's on the CSM and smarter than you.
The Mittani (Chairman for life) - Retired high priced Washington, D.C. hot shot lawyer. motherf***ing king of space. Has been the most intelligently vocal mouthpiece of the largest player bloc (28,000 strong). Just going out on a limb here, but I'd venture to guess he's smarter than you.
Grath Teklien - I don't know what grath does in real life, but I hope he's a federal judge, because that would be amazing and utterly priceless. He may be wrong, but at least he commits to defend his position through multiple pages of dribble. He's smarter than you.
CCP Soundwave - Funnier, wittier, and smarter than you. Unfortunately he says UHHHHHHHH a lot, but I won't hold it against him, because he's probably thinking in viking and translating it to English.
Seleene didn't cut it at CCP, but he's probably smarter than you.

I don't really care enough to keep going, but I guess my point is: Post on your main, or get out.

P.S. I just spellchecked and fixed your post for you. I guess I'm smarter than you too.



i mean no offence to any of those people above,

but out of all those people you have listed, which one of them have actually had influence on the comming changes of the titan?
and their jobs may indicate the fact of their smartness, but in what criteria? i've only mentioned 'genius', 'IVY League', and 'IQ' as reference and none of them seem to match. though they could partially be matched in your way of thinking, you've clearly did not understand what i was trying to say; obviously those three references were just metaphorical words to state the fact that those influencing people, just by working themselves, can not lead and design the game properly such in a way that may satisfy vast majority of the players equally.

and do you think you can give me a single name of a game copy that had not failed, made by a company which has employees' that had favourited one particular thought or a group of people but then didn't give a damn of the majority(that includes people)?

I hear that a lot, maybe all, of the most successful games - League of Legends/Starcraft II/WoW/BattleField 3/Warcraft III/Counter Strike/COD:ModernWarfare/ balance out game mechanic based on people's thoughts and inputs but not on their(employee could include beta testers as well.) own. they surely could've made a success without majority of the players input and thoughts but with communist like group of people only.

here's the short version -

the game designer/ balancing team/ CSM/ whomever that gives influence need to be listening to everyone voice, not just goonswarm/cfc

obviously you're mad at somthing, because i'm guessing you have no life but only on the internet, you have to be somthing. get e-peen out of this. or else you have no way of getting dophamine. am i right?

so you're telling me to get out? you think you own this place? this forum? this company? just because you're from Goonswarm?

i think you've stayed in communist-like environment for too long.

i dont think anyone's curious about my identity other than you or the GS; becaues you see, have i insulted anyone with this character? have i said anything about what should be changed of the april titan fix?

wasting hell of a time to do a research and do background checks on people that dont give a damn about you just to prove nothing which has nothing to do with this topic..comparing my smartness to other people and then using it for insulting..telling me to get out because i do not post in my main..

you just really suck at trolling


Actually, Greyscale went to Cambridge, and while we haven't IQ tested him yet, I'm pretty sure he'd score high Bear