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Incoming titan adjustments

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CynoNet Two
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#101 - 2012-03-13 12:52:28 UTC
Ra Death wrote:
There is now ZERO reason to deploy supercapitals except to grind down a structure.


Is that true?


SMT008 wrote:
CCP, you might want to fix something. You said "base scan resolution reduced to 5"

Didn't you mean "Base scan resolution reduced BY 5" ?

No POS mods or ships can realistically have a scan resolution of 5.


It's reduced to 5.

That puts a titan with officer sensor boosters in line with the lock time of a sieged dread.
Euphorion
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#102 - 2012-03-13 12:53:32 UTC
Shield titans should have more sig res than armor tanking titans, due to their incredible difficulty of fitting sebos, and sigamps being terrible.
Sentinel Eeex
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#103 - 2012-03-13 12:54:58 UTC
Mike712 wrote:
Courthouse wrote:
Mike712 wrote:
So goons fly blobs of 2 LSE perma MWDing drakes(read massive sig, in fact as big as a carrier) against titans for 2 months to make them look OP, then titans get nerfed.

Good job goons/mittens now you should have the upper hand against a foe who you greatly outnumber....

Counterpoint: You're from battleclinic and thus have zero idea what you're talking about when it comes to PVP in EVE Online.


lol, you couldn't be more wrong, all of the battleclinic mods are PvPers.


He wasn't saying that you are not PvPer.

He was saying that you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to PvP, so his point is still valid.
Anuqet
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#104 - 2012-03-13 12:55:00 UTC
SuperBeastie wrote:


it takes a ship with 11.1 scan res 54 seconds to lock a dread. yep that makes sense!


Haha this cannot possibly be true, since that would mean that titans cant fight dreads seing how the dreads would die before 80% of the titans can even come close to locking them.
Joran Jackson
The Red Circle Inc.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#105 - 2012-03-13 12:55:40 UTC
Euphorion wrote:
Shield titans should have more sig res than armor tanking titans, due to their incredible difficulty of fitting sebos, and sigamps being terrible.


You shield tank your titan?
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#106 - 2012-03-13 12:56:00 UTC
Dank Man wrote:
Wow, ccp you must love goons and blobs. because this nerf make the bigger subcap blob win all fights, congrats mittens and goons, you cried enough on the forums and welped enough fleets into capital weapons that you got what you wanted, a capital weapon shield! gg.


20 of your members deciding coalition engagements isn't exactly the better alternative either heh!

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#107 - 2012-03-13 12:56:03 UTC
In addition to my previous post, I've said it over and over again

The solution is not a nerf of supercapitals. A nerf will accomplish nothing - either supercapitals will still be overpowered, OR they will be utterly useless

The solution is rather a COUNTER to supercapitals. An affordable counter, which puts a lot of risk to deploying supercapitals without a proper support fleet, and is very cost effective should said supercapital fleet be without support, or even insufficient support

I once again submit my torpedo boat proposal as a reasonable counter to supercapitals

Torpedo boats (yeah, it's a crap name, but it describes what they are

Small cheap ships, perhaps tier 2 destroyers. Relatively poor tank, relatively low DPS, but with the ability to fit a "torpedo launcher", an item similar to bomb launchers - with a 5-10 minute cycle time, that targets supercaps and possibly normal caps as well. They need to be guided in, requires 15 seconds to detonate, and the firing ships need to be on the field for this duration, WITH the target still locked. This means that they can be jammed, killed, forced off the field etc, to prevent the damage from occurring, but if it isn't, each of these cheap disposable ships dish out 100k alpha on supercaps. Less so on normal capitals. 100k alpha may not be much, but 100 of these ships means 10M potential damage

Game mechanics:

* The "Torpedo Launcher" would be able to fit a single supertorpedo
* The supertorpedo requires a lock on the target to fire
* The lock must be maintained during the flight/activation time of the supertorpedo
* The flight/activation time is 15 seconds
* The supertorpedo hits for 100k damage on supercapitals, and is affected by resists as usual
* The torpedo boat is immune to the effects of remote ECM burs
* It may be possible to reuse code from titan doomsdays to replicate the activation time and effect

Refire delay is 5 to 10 minutes

Pros:

* A dedicated counter to supercapitals, and even normal capitals. It'd give an alliance with numbers a means to significantly damage an opposing supercapital, with relatively cost effective means
* A good way to enable new players to strike against the biggest ships in the game

Cons

* High refire delay means that DPS is limited
* Requires large numbers to take on supercapitals
* Can be shot down during the 15 second activation timer

Counter

The most obvious counter is subcap support for the supercap fleet

This makes it essential to have a force sufficient enough to defend the supercapitals, preventing a pure supercap fleet from dominating the battlefield
Shade Millith
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#108 - 2012-03-13 12:56:08 UTC
Uh, I wanted titans nerfed, but while I agree that 35-50 is a little much for titans, 5 is WAY too low
Tuskar
Paisti
#109 - 2012-03-13 12:56:20 UTC
Titans should be only for portaling and in supercap fights.
Good chance.

solo titan pvp heroes and sanctum whores can diaf
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#110 - 2012-03-13 12:56:44 UTC
Kissapasi wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
This will require a reasonably significant amount of work, which we unfortunately don't have the spare resources for right now.


Picks from the patch notes:

- An issue with certain lipstick colors not appearing correctly has been fixed.

- Hull Tanking - Elite certificate no longer directly requires Hull Upgrades IV, as this is superseded by the requirement for Core Integrity - Elite.

- The warp in effects on the sun in Uotila system have been fixed and display correctly.

- The boosters on the Dominix, Sin and Dominix Navy Issue have been moved closer to the ships engines.

- Neutron Blaster turret color will adapt to the racial style of the ship they're fitted to.

- We have revamped the rookie ships which are the first ships new players see in the game. You can read, and see, all the changes to the Ibis, Impairor, Reaper and Velator in this blog.


Sounds like CCP is using their resources well to make the game better for us all. Well, the at least newbship models were completely broken for so long time so it is great that they finally fixed them! Good work CCP.



The only one of these which was competing for resources with balance changes is the hull tanking cert fix, which I actually did myself. I'd estimate a minute to read the defect, two minutes to verify that it was indeed silly, fifteen seconds to find the cert in our internal tools, five seconds to click the "remove requirement" button, a minute to type up the change notes and thirty seconds to close the defect. Let's say five minutes total, as part of my scheduled "fixing defects" time. This is not the thing that's preventing us from spending a month working on titan balance.
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#111 - 2012-03-13 12:56:48 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Ikoma Sunblazer wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
The scan res number is balanced around multiple Cormack's sensor boosters, on the assumption that money is not a limiting factor for titan pilots, and therefore that people will shell out for officer SBs if that lets them continue do this kind of thing.



All things aside, this is a pretty hilarious assumption that doesn't make sense in context. With a base sensor strength of 5, you are talking about a few seconds difference between t2 and cormack out of a probable minute+ lock time.

Well worth the 4b+ sensor booster imo Lol


Gains you 25s against frigates (105 to 79, assuming 3 are fitted), 15s against cruisers (64 to 49) and 10s against battleships (44 to 33).

If you see this as a big difference, then it's worth balancing around the officer fit given that dropping 12bn on SBs is not a huge fraction of the outlay for a properly-fit titan. If you don't see this as a big difference, then balancing around the officer fit isn't a big deal because it's not having a major impact. Either way, it's a functional assumption Smile


4b? Hah, try 10. Twisted

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Doctor Eezee
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#112 - 2012-03-13 12:57:19 UTC
Kissapasi wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
This will require a reasonably significant amount of work, which we unfortunately don't have the spare resources for right now.


Picks from the patch notes:

- An issue with certain lipstick colors not appearing correctly has been fixed.

- Hull Tanking - Elite certificate no longer directly requires Hull Upgrades IV, as this is superseded by the requirement for Core Integrity - Elite.

- The warp in effects on the sun in Uotila system have been fixed and display correctly.

- The boosters on the Dominix, Sin and Dominix Navy Issue have been moved closer to the ships engines.

- Neutron Blaster turret color will adapt to the racial style of the ship they're fitted to.

- We have revamped the rookie ships which are the first ships new players see in the game. You can read, and see, all the changes to the Ibis, Impairor, Reaper and Velator in this blog.


Sounds like CCP is using their resources well to make the game better for us all. Well, the at least newbship models were completely broken for so long time so it is great that they finally fixed them! Good work CCP.




Yes, because the exact same people that work in the design department also work on balancing the game.

"My rule is: If you meet the weakest vessel, attack; if it is a vessel equal to yours, attack; and if it is stronger than yours, also attack..." - Admiral Stepan O. Makarov
Ikoma Sunblazer
Einherjar Rising
#113 - 2012-03-13 12:57:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Ikoma Sunblazer
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Ikoma Sunblazer wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
The scan res number is balanced around multiple Cormack's sensor boosters, on the assumption that money is not a limiting factor for titan pilots, and therefore that people will shell out for officer SBs if that lets them continue do this kind of thing.



All things aside, this is a pretty hilarious assumption that doesn't make sense in context. With a base sensor strength of 5, you are talking about a few seconds difference between t2 and cormack out of a probable minute+ lock time.

Well worth the 4b+ sensor booster imo Lol


Gains you 25s against frigates (105 to 79, assuming 3 are fitted), 15s against cruisers (64 to 49) and 10s against battleships (44 to 33).

If you see this as a big difference, then it's worth balancing around the officer fit given that dropping 12bn on SBs is not a huge fraction of the outlay for a properly-fit titan. If you don't see this as a big difference, then balancing around the officer fit isn't a big deal because it's not having a major impact. Either way, it's a functional assumption Smile


And these numbers are all calculated with TRIPLE cormack sensor boosters? Which are 10b each atm and will surely go up?

CCP Greyscale wrote:
"Not a huge fraction of the outlay for a properly-fit titan"
So you are saying that 30bil, or about half the build cost of a titan in sensor boosters is a reasonable investment in titans for a 10 second gain in lock time that still comes out to over half a minute, or about triple the warp speed of a maelstrom.

You are a funny dude :)
Notorius B
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#114 - 2012-03-13 12:57:39 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Hi everyone,

We're not happy with the effectiveness of large groups of titans against subcapital ships, so we're making some adjustments to titans and to XL turrets.



Basicly means GOONS aint happy

I have to ask why are ccp so influenced bye goons.
They blob.
People bring titans to counter their massive blops as not all alliances can bring as big of a blop like goons.

CCP loves MITTANI.
Ruby Lionheart
Hiramu Innvations
#115 - 2012-03-13 12:58:00 UTC
Andski wrote:
Rachael Tyrelll wrote:
CCP, please read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock-paper-scissors

Thanks


So which one of those is the titan? Oh yeah, the one that kills rock, paper and scissors



Not if the rock is dreads or sc's ;)

70 bil ship, > 100mil isk ship,
but if you had brouth like 50 dreads you whuld have killed some titans and stil got out on top whould you not?
Freelancer83
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#116 - 2012-03-13 12:58:22 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Ikoma Sunblazer wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
The scan res number is balanced around multiple Cormack's sensor boosters, on the assumption that money is not a limiting factor for titan pilots, and therefore that people will shell out for officer SBs if that lets them continue do this kind of thing.



All things aside, this is a pretty hilarious assumption that doesn't make sense in context. With a base sensor strength of 5, you are talking about a few seconds difference between t2 and cormack out of a probable minute+ lock time.

Well worth the 4b+ sensor booster imo Lol


Gains you 25s against frigates (105 to 79, assuming 3 are fitted), 15s against cruisers (64 to 49) and 10s against battleships (44 to 33).

If you see this as a big difference, then it's worth balancing around the officer fit given that dropping 12bn on SBs is not a huge fraction of the outlay for a properly-fit titan. If you don't see this as a big difference, then balancing around the officer fit isn't a big deal because it's not having a major impact. Either way, it's a functional assumption Smile



Is CCP using this logic when Balancing Maelstroms around the fact they will be used in fleets of 150+ Maels and can Alpha Capitals?
SirNine
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#117 - 2012-03-13 12:59:03 UTC
Dank Man wrote:
Wow, ccp you must love goons and blobs. because this nerf make the bigger subcap blob win all fights, congrats mittens and goons, you cried enough on the forums and welped enough fleets into capital weapons that you got what you wanted, a capital weapon shield! gg.


Nothing like sweet tasty tears in the morning.
Rachael Tyrelll
Dynatech Intergalactical Trading Ltd.
#118 - 2012-03-13 12:59:35 UTC
Andski wrote:
Rachael Tyrelll wrote:
CCP, please read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock-paper-scissors

Thanks


So which one of those is the titan? Oh yeah, the one that kills rock, paper and scissors


Sorry Dude ... u fail

caps are now completely useless instead of the bridge and against structures ... That would be ok if subcaps would do no damage against structures ... but :D

So welcome to World of Goonswarm :)
Tector
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#119 - 2012-03-13 13:00:17 UTC
Dank Man wrote:
Wow, ccp you must love goons and blobs. because this nerf make the bigger subcap blob win all fights, congrats mittens and goons, you cried enough on the forums and welped enough fleets into capital weapons that you got what you wanted, a capital weapon shield! gg.


Yeah we're horrible people for getting along well with others.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#120 - 2012-03-13 13:00:25 UTC
Pallidum Treponema wrote:
Additionally, most titan kills of subcaps occur once said titans are configured for max tracking. Without tracking mods, IE fully configured for tank, titans have trouble tracking even battleships that perform properly.
…and now it will have trouble tracking battleships when configured for max tracking, which is pretty much how it should be.

Quote:
The solution is rather a COUNTER to supercapitals. An affordable counter, which puts a lot of risk to deploying supercapitals without a proper support fleet, and is very cost effective should said supercapital fleet be without support, or even insufficient support
There are counters. The problem is that the titans have a rather easy time of killing them. This kind of change makes those counters more viable.