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Incoming titan adjustments

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Syzygium
Ventures Bar
#2521 - 2012-03-19 01:17:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Syzygium
The tracking change is fine imho, Give XL-Turrets a 3000m Signature to make it perfect

Hint
Frigs: 30-40m Sig, S-Guns: 40m Sig
Cruisers: 120-150m Sig, M-Guns: 150m Sig
BS: 340-400m Sig, L-Guns: 400m Sig

Caps: 2800-3000m Sig, XL-Guns...: 1000m Sig .... wait what? 3000 is the value to match their primary targets sig, like all other platforms



The locking restriction to 3 targets and the base scanreso of 5 is bad. While it may solve some problems you have identified, it makes the usage of these ships just annoying. Think about locking times under Time Dilatation. You want to play a game in which a battle lasts maybe 2 hours and you need 5 *Minutes* to even lock a target? 8 Targets and Base Scanreso of 30-40 seems in-line with the other caps and supercaps, with the tracking of the XL-Guns and their Signature blown up like I suggested, that should be way enough penalty in an engagement against subcaps

If you still experience mass-killing of subcaps with "tracking titans", you also have the option to change the damage formula in a way, that the target signature in comparison to the signature of the gun used, defines the max-damage the target can take
Example (Full hit means: 0 Transversal, Target in Optimal Range)
XL-Turret (3000m Sig) hits Capital (3000m Sig) -> Full hit = 100% damage
XL-Turret (3000m Sig) hits Battleship (400m Sig) -> Full hit = 400/3000 = 13.3% Damage
XL-Turret (3000m Sig) hits Cruiser (150m Sig) -> Full hit = 5% Damage
XL-Turret (3000m Sig) hits Frigate (40m Sig) -> Full hit = 1.3% Damage

This makes small targets basically highly resistant against damage coming from large guns, also helping in many other scenarios (HACs vs BS, AFs vs BCs etc...)
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#2522 - 2012-03-19 02:36:35 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Mutheer Lelmata'eb wrote:
Do we have the ability to make CCP shape the game into whatever we liked?
I mean, if that's the case, then can they make me a ship that literally mounts other ships and has its way with them?
It would add a whole other level of anger to the game.


CCP fixed blasters and gal hulls as a personal favour to me.

You were fine with blasters the way they were, I had to do terrible, unspeakable things to certain CCP employees to get those buffs put in.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2523 - 2012-03-19 09:41:42 UTC
Cambarus wrote:
I had to do terrible, unspeakable things to certain CCP employees to get those buffs put in.


You didn't fall for Soundwaves trick did youShocked
Il Reverendo
Forty Two
#2524 - 2012-03-19 14:12:14 UTC
Goon thread, goon dev, goon bad ideas...

These are the somethingawful forums rght?
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2525 - 2012-03-19 14:34:12 UTC
Il Reverendo wrote:
Goon thread, goon dev, goon bad ideas...

These are the somethingawful forums rght?


faceless forum alt, bad post

you're retarded right?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
zh0uXiao
Doomheim
#2526 - 2012-03-19 15:46:18 UTC
how about u beeing ******** andski for not letting ppl saying what they think. Every1 is entitled to have an opinion
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2527 - 2012-03-19 16:17:57 UTC
zh0uXiao wrote:
how about u beeing ******** andski for not letting ppl saying what they think. Every1 is entitled to have an opinion


yours is irrelevant though

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
fukier
Gallente Federation
#2528 - 2012-03-19 18:17:00 UTC  |  Edited by: fukier
if you read this thread about half the posts are by andski using: Abusive ad hominem (also called personal abuse or personal attacks) usually involves insulting or belittling one's opponent in order to attack his claim or invalidate his argument, but can also involve pointing out true character flaws or actions that are irrelevant to the opponent's argument. This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and negative facts about the opponent's personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent's arguments or assertions.

Pretty much Andski does not posses a valid argument (or if he does has decided not to put if foward) and uses intimidation and abusivness to try to concvnce the reader that his POV is the only valid one. Which is a shame because threads like this can be used to have a contructive argument. But Alas this is typical of a "goon" thread.

example:
high sec alt says:
this is a good idea for reasons a b and c

andski:
you are a pubbie so your argument is mute.

great way to have a discussion.Roll
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2529 - 2012-03-19 18:22:55 UTC
you should get a browser with a spellchecker

toodles

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2530 - 2012-03-19 18:53:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Yeep
zh0uXiao wrote:
how about u beeing ******** andski for not letting ppl saying what they think. Every1 is entitled to have an opinion


Express your opinion in public and people are entitled (or in your case, guaranteed) to form their own opinion that you're a moron.

fukier wrote:
Pretty much Andski does not posses a valid argument (or if he does has decided not to put if foward) and uses intimidation and abusivness to try to concvnce the reader that his POV is the only valid one. Which is a shame because threads like this can be used to have a contructive argument. But Alas this is typical of a "goon" thread.


Alternatively pretty much every pro-titan argument has been shot down earlier in the thread so its safe to assume everyone who insists on repeating them is functionally illiterate.
Kyle Myr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2531 - 2012-03-19 19:03:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Kyle Myr
fukier wrote:
if you read this thread about half the posts are by andski using: Abusive ad hominem (also called personal abuse or personal attacks) usually involves insulting or belittling one's opponent in order to attack his claim or invalidate his argument, but can also involve pointing out true character flaws or actions that are irrelevant to the opponent's argument. This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and negative facts about the opponent's personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent's arguments or assertions.

Pretty much Andski does not posses a valid argument (or if he does has decided not to put if foward) and uses intimidation and abusivness to try to concvnce the reader that his POV is the only valid one. Which is a shame because threads like this can be used to have a contructive argument. But Alas this is typical of a "goon" thread.

example:
high sec alt says:
this is a good idea for reasons a b and c

andski:
you are a pubbie so your argument is mute.

great way to have a discussion.Roll


You're missing the underlying point. While Andski's posting is partially there to rile the other side of this discussion into a frothing rage, he has a central underlying point: when you post on a high sec alt, you use it to disguise your background, and to either hide your bias or attempt to make it look like your argument has broader appeal than it actually does.

This kind of subterfuge is pretty crude, but it's still worth calling it out. I post on my main so you can know who I am. If this means you read my posts and assume I'm part of some kind of bizarre hive mind, that's your problem. I'm not trying to disguise anything.

There plenty of posters in this thread that aren't allies of us that agree that these changes are part of necessary action that needs to be taken to bring super caps in line with the role CCP intends for them given their proliferation, as spelled out in the early posts. I see little evidence of non-PL/NCdot/Raiden alliances which favor super caps superiority as the ultimate answer to any fight.

More to the point, even given those biases, posting on your main going against the assumed grain holds my weight. I go out of my way to post reasonable discussion because people see my corp ticker and assume I'm not capable of it. Shadoo's post on the need to change super caps so they function differently carries a lot of weight because he's a highly visible figure of importance in a very super cap rich organization.

Post on a main to prove that you've worked with super caps, friendly and enemy. If you post on an empire alt, there's no way you can say that you're not just an EFT warrior who thinks current titan tracking can't hit dictors because he's never left empire.

yeep wrote:
Alternatively pretty much every pro-titan argument has been shot down earlier in the thread so its safe to assume everyone who insists on repeating them is functionally illiterate.


This is also the point we're getting at. A lot of the anti Titan in the recent pages have been so difficult to comprehend that I haven't been trying to respond because I'm not sure either side can understand the other.
HELIC0N ONE
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2532 - 2012-03-19 22:32:46 UTC  |  Edited by: HELIC0N ONE
Yeep wrote:
Alternatively pretty much every pro-titan argument has been shot down earlier in the thread so its safe to assume everyone who insists on repeating them is functionally illiterate.

Yeah this thread is dead since the opponents had essentially nothing to offer except "the more expensive ship should always win, titan pilots are like level 80 WoW characters, if you haven't played Eve for 6 years you shouldn't be allowed to compete", "if you nerf my precious pretend spaceship I am quitting and taking my 700 alt accounts with me", and insinuations about CCP devs engaging in sexual acts with goonwaffe members.

hi5s all round
Darth Tickles
Doomheim
#2533 - 2012-03-20 01:05:35 UTC
Cascade Imminent: bastion of NEW TACTICS IN 0.0 PVP NOT JUST DRAKES
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#2534 - 2012-03-20 01:19:16 UTC
Suggestion: look at remote tracking and remote sensor boosting as a whole because those combined with off-grid links provide SO SO many advantages to campers and home-defenders that should probably be considered.

I say this as a solo PVPer of course but even farting about in frigates doing unimportant PVP these instalocking, uber tracking and linked up groups are of course an issue. It's still a problem for small skirmish gangs wanting to engage larger forces and it goes right up the engagement scale to tracking linked titans.

Your current proposal deals with Titan tracking but doesnt really consider the smaller scale. I don't know if you care about the above but it would be nice if you at least considered it ♥

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2535 - 2012-03-20 02:33:34 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
Suggestion: look at remote tracking and remote sensor boosting as a whole because those combined with off-grid links provide SO SO many advantages to campers and home-defenders that should probably be considered.

I say this as a solo PVPer of course but even farting about in frigates doing unimportant PVP these instalocking, uber tracking and linked up groups are of course an issue. It's still a problem for small skirmish gangs wanting to engage larger forces and it goes right up the engagement scale to tracking linked titans.

Your current proposal deals with Titan tracking but doesnt really consider the smaller scale. I don't know if you care about the above but it would be nice if you at least considered it ♥


off-grid links, remote sensor boosts and tracking links are not a problem

hint: if they own the space, they rightly have the advantage

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Yamarash
13th Squadron
Fraternity.
#2536 - 2012-03-20 02:44:47 UTC
oh no sry all for my later statement. i was wrong and mad. lol.

NOOBS need to have equal opportunities as older people. LMAO in what game this is true??? examples please?

One drake with a guy 3 MONTHS old can beat a 5 years older (no ******) guy cause CCP will nerf every ship when somebody cry telling CCP they cant win a s.h.i.t ?

What CCP will do when 200 guys in Machariels kick a.ss 700 noobies Drakes ?? Nerf Machariels ???

What CCP will do when 2000 noobs attack a technetium pos and 20 random guys in bombers kill all that cra.p ??? nerf bombers?

WE WILL SEE. JUST SAYING and want to leave this as history to copy-paste in a future.

do your bets..
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2537 - 2012-03-20 03:03:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Yamarash wrote:
oh no sry all for my later statement. i was wrong and mad. lol.

NOOBS need to have equal opportunities as older people. LMAO in what game this is true??? examples please?

One drake with a guy 3 MONTHS old can beat a 5 years older (no ******) guy cause CCP will nerf every ship when somebody cry telling CCP they cant win a s.h.i.t ?

What CCP will do when 200 guys in Machariels kick a.ss 700 noobies Drakes ?? Nerf Machariels ???

What CCP will do when 2000 noobs attack a technetium pos and 20 random guys in bombers kill all that cra.p ??? nerf bombers?

WE WILL SEE. JUST SAYING and want to leave this as history to copy-paste in a future.

do your bets..


hey bro your alliance never uses its titans anyway

200 machariels will not kill 700 drakes (or anything) without logistics, recons, dictors and other support, and they certainly will not engage 700 of any ship without losses

bombers are easily avoided by spreading out - anyone who stays in a ball, especially when shooting towers, deserves to get bombed

keep bleating it's hilarious

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Acwron
Meet The Fockers
#2538 - 2012-03-20 05:23:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Acwron
My Rag has a 68 mm scan resolution. With 3 Cormack Sebos I have 296mm

Without any sensor booster, I target a Dramiel in 33 sec.

With a Shadow Serpentis sebo I target in 20 sec.
With a Cormack Sebo it takes 18 sec
With 2 Cormack Sebo it takes 11 Sec
With 3 Cormack Sebo it takes 8 sec

Without any sensor booster, I target a Nightmare in 13 sec

With a Cormack Sebo it takes 8 sec
With 2 Cormack Sebos it takes 4 sec
With 3 Cormack Sebo it takes less than 3 sec

Now, getting scan resolution from 68 to 5, imagine how much it will take to target a frigate. With TiDi on, you have time to take a bath, eat, watch a movie, sleep, wake up, take a shower then check if your target is locked. Meh, it's not there anymore. he's in his home system. For a long time now. But tomorrow is another day, you can try to lock something again. Make sure you got everything you need: food, water/beer/scotch, movies and popcorn ofc

Oh crap, I can't hit anything cos my tracking is halved. nevermind, going back to the movie.
Yamarash
13th Squadron
Fraternity.
#2539 - 2012-03-20 05:40:28 UTC
Andski wrote:


hey bro your alliance never uses its titans anyway

200 machariels will not kill 700 drakes (or anything) without logistics, recons, dictors and other support, and they certainly will not engage 700 of any ship without losses

bombers are easily avoided by spreading out - anyone who stays in a ball, especially when shooting towers, deserves to get bombed

keep bleating it's hilarious



Bro. Who is talking about alliances??? topic is about nerf titans. grown up. this is no local channel lmao.

and yes i use mine.

and 700 drakes never go withoput logistics, recons, dictors and other support. Lets see what will be your next cry me a river after titans nerf.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2540 - 2012-03-20 06:13:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Yamarash wrote:
Bro. Who is talking about alliances??? topic is about nerf titans. grown up. this is no local channel lmao.

and yes i use mine.

and 700 drakes never go withoput logistics, recons, dictors and other support. Lets see what will be your next cry me a river after titans nerf.


hi this thread is about groups of 20-30 titans killing subcaps with impunity, zero losses, and zero risk

keep up, your alliance never uses titans like that, and they hardly ever use titans besides for bridging

do feel free to link some killmails where you blap idiots coming through a gate or something because what you do when every supercapital fleet of consequence is 7 mids away is absolutely irrelevant

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar