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Incoming titan adjustments

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Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2021 - 2012-03-15 01:03:32 UTC
asdf ghyj wrote:
Dmitry Sychev wrote:
asdf ghyj wrote:
Dear CCP if do this nerf then gief back to all pilots titan skills cuz we spend 5 bil for skill and 100 bils = for titan and wasting like 3 month + for make skill AND NOW WE CANT USE THIS SHIP cuz this MITANI not have skill and isk to take titan

MR MITANI go play PREPELIX ONLINE and stop cry to CCP cuz u guys (goon) cant fly titans

OR MAKE SERVER FOR GOONS AND LET US PLAY FAIR
And CCp what prefer to have 6-7k players( goons) or 60k players ??????
Think before do wrong changes


60k players? How many titans in Game? - Titan's pilots will leave game, no changes to online.


I dont care how many titans pilot are in game, but i dont wasting my time 3+ month for perfect titan and a lot time to make isk to buy skill and titan and now ????? we all pay to play this game not only GOONS or MItani
CCP must listen all players not only 5-6k


I don't own a Titan and I don't belong to a large null sec alliance so wasn't really going to say anything on this topic until I saw this post.

And what about me? What about the other 50,000 odd people that log in each day that don't own Titans? Don't we count?

One day I might like to head out to null to see another part of the game but I've seen the killmails and saw the threads about how YOU! and your buddies in Titans have been basically kicking the crap out of everything with impunity.

Why would I or anyone else that ALSO! pays to play EVE even waste our time trying to get to null just to be slapped down by a couple of bored Titan pilots, regardless of the time and effort we put into our skills?

Doesn't matter if we even got a good fleet together to try and take space because, hey, you have Titans and therefore you should automatically win all fights, right? WRONG!

I have read the posts by the anti-Titan nerf brigade and, jesus, you guys are weak. You can't give one coherent reason as to why it's a bad idea without pulling your head out of your ass long enough to think of the other players or the game as a whole.

All the NPC Alt posters and Raiden should stop posting, you are making yourselves look stupid by trying to imply there's nothing wrong with Titan blobs and that it's all Goon's fault for crying to CCP. Fact is, it is your own fault.

And as to the idiots that postd about Goons and friends blobbing, why do you think that is? They have the largest alliance in the game. If they were really that terrible, no-one would fly with them. May be you should look at your own policies and recruitment before you point fingers elsewhere.

As it stands, if I had to join any alliance in null to experience a new part of the game, I would certainly not choose any of the idiots from Raiden and friends. You have only ever considered the game from your perspective and have given no thought for anyone else.

Oh and by the way? Think about this really hard, if Goons have the largest alliance in EVE, who do you think will have the most Titans and Super Caps in the end? Who do you think they would use all of these shiney toys on in 6 months to a year's time? Do you think the nerf only affects you?

Think about it.
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2022 - 2012-03-15 01:06:40 UTC
John Maynard Keynes wrote:
Fun Fact:

It took almost a week for the anomaly nerf thread to get to page 100
http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1487231&page=1

This one managed it in only two days.


Would also be nice if someone listed the percentage of post in each thread that are by alliance and individuals. Also toss in some other threadnoughts like Zulu's carrier change, AoE DD changed to focus and nanonerf to name a few. I would do it myself, but I'm restricted to my cell phone till I get home later.
Bok Aeden
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2023 - 2012-03-15 01:14:51 UTC
Dovinian wrote:
When TEST grows up....


Anyone else laugh at the thought of TEST growing up?
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2024 - 2012-03-15 01:18:55 UTC
Katalci wrote:
Titans were balanced just fine before this awful change. What is their combat use over a supercarrier, now?


dunno the ability to apply 3 million alpha is pretty significant

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
EnderCapitalG
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2025 - 2012-03-15 01:20:17 UTC
Guys, Titans were just fine before the change, honest!

I mean, blapping afterburning frigates is perfectly fine! Also camping gates in lowsec and killing literally everything that goes through it is 100% A-OK as well.

Why can't you guys see this?
EnderCapitalG
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2026 - 2012-03-15 01:20:28 UTC
Really!
EnderCapitalG
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2027 - 2012-03-15 01:21:00 UTC
Guys, my SP and ISK and ~gamechanger~


lol goonNOOBS only have 5mil SP hahahahahaha
StainLessStealRat
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2028 - 2012-03-15 01:37:17 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Shadoo wrote:
I don't think anyone who has flown a titan in combat can argue that the ship is not currently overpowered in combat when used in great numbers, just like no one could seriously argue about AOD DDs when they started to be used in 3+3 scale every 10 minutes

Of course, same goes for every ship in eve -- when used in great numbers, but Supercapitals certainly show this curve more often on the field

So I'm extremely happy that you state that the ship needs a role change - last time we were campaigning for AOD DD change -- this was exactly what a lot of us were asking for

But that was 3 years ago

I am therefore rather dissapointed that what we, the community at large, have been asking for a very long time is rather haphazardly brushed off as something that "will be looked at long term" with a surgical change that SCREAMS of a kneejerk reaction without really providing us with much to go on here to see your vision or have comfort you are going to do something in the long term for the "end game" ship in EVE

And forgive me for saying this -- but you have not always had a great track record of revisiting changes you've made in the past as surgical adjustments. Thus I feel like pressing a bit harder on the high level thoughts that have lead you to make this current fix

What is your intended role for Titan with this change on TQ today?

How will you evaluate if your changes implemented will match up with that role on the TQ combat field in this release? For example -- as far as I can see -- a large group of titans will still obliterate a large group of battleships/drakes -- all you've delayed is the first hit and require more micromanagement in making sure the lock queue is evenly spaced out

Given how large fights today unfold on TQ -- how do you see this ship fulfilling your intended role on heavily TiDi systems with the sig change

What is your future vision, even at high level, for the Titan ship class? Will it remain a combat asset or are you looking and overhauling it for something else (personally btw I've argued for the last 4 years that titans should NOT be a combat ship at all, but rather a massive alliance level asset for logistics/cloning/staging/etc)

What assurances can you offer us this change will not remain a permanent fixture for the long term?

With the combat ability of this ship being "surgically adjusted", would you be even willing to look at for example increasing the jump range of the ship to balance the change

And lastly -- are you going to allow those pilots who wish to wait for your stated longer term role adjustments to GM-dock their ship until such a time that this change is no longer a surgical measure in order to still utilize the account/character for combat in EVE?


The intended role for titans is a) jump bridging, b) doomsdaying things, c) fleet boosting and d) doing a decent job of killing capitals with their main guns.

We'll be assessing the success of this change based in the first instance on whether or not players are still telling us they're having problems with this sort of thing, and then if they are, looking at the situation objectively and seeing if it merits further work.

On systems under Time Dilation, we're expecting this to work mechanically identically but subjectively slower. Time Dilation is a technical fix to prevent performance issues on heavily loaded systems; it's not a game mechanic and we're not currently considering it for balancing purposes.

We don't currently have a clear future vision for titans, as mentioned in the first post. We've repeatedly tried and failed to find a role for them that we're happy with in the past, and we don't want to spend significant balance resources on revisiting this right now because we have other priorities.

We can't offer any assurances about our future plans. Every release (~6 months) we sit down and look at what our priorities are for the various different resources we have available (balancers, general designers, UI designers, various breeds of programmer, artists etc) and then allocate accordingly. These priorities change based on the current state of the game, the resources available and so on. Spending significant resources on a major titan rework is not currently on our short-term plan, and beyond that we don't have any reliable way of offering guarantees on what we will and won't be working on. This approach means that we're always delivering maximum possible value, but at the cost of not having rock-solid long-term plans. I would also note here that we're doing this "quick fix" precisely because we don't know when we're going to have a comprehensive solution - we regard the current situation as broken, and we don't want to leave it broken indefinitely while we wait for a "proper fix" with no clear timetable. This is the best way to deal with this general sort of problem in our opinion.

We're considering additional changes to balance out this adjustment; we'll do it if we feel it's necessary, but we'd prefer to make as few changes as possible at this time.

We're also considering ways of letting people "park up", but we can't make any commitments about that this morning.



50% of our fights now take place in TiDi,Not balancing with this in mind is idiotic.

When you admit to looking at allowing players to park there 100 B+ Investment you must realize you are admitting that the ship is not worth wasting a high SP char on that could be flying the "End game " ship in eve, a Faction BS.

Also when i burn away from BS in a straight line in my Slicer i allways die, when will you look at BS tracking?
Blawrf McTaggart
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2029 - 2012-03-15 01:48:46 UTC
StainLessStealRat wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Shadoo wrote:
I don't think anyone who has flown a titan in combat can argue that the ship is not currently overpowered in combat when used in great numbers, just like no one could seriously argue about AOD DDs when they started to be used in 3+3 scale every 10 minutes

Of course, same goes for every ship in eve -- when used in great numbers, but Supercapitals certainly show this curve more often on the field

So I'm extremely happy that you state that the ship needs a role change - last time we were campaigning for AOD DD change -- this was exactly what a lot of us were asking for

But that was 3 years ago

I am therefore rather dissapointed that what we, the community at large, have been asking for a very long time is rather haphazardly brushed off as something that "will be looked at long term" with a surgical change that SCREAMS of a kneejerk reaction without really providing us with much to go on here to see your vision or have comfort you are going to do something in the long term for the "end game" ship in EVE

And forgive me for saying this -- but you have not always had a great track record of revisiting changes you've made in the past as surgical adjustments. Thus I feel like pressing a bit harder on the high level thoughts that have lead you to make this current fix

What is your intended role for Titan with this change on TQ today?

How will you evaluate if your changes implemented will match up with that role on the TQ combat field in this release? For example -- as far as I can see -- a large group of titans will still obliterate a large group of battleships/drakes -- all you've delayed is the first hit and require more micromanagement in making sure the lock queue is evenly spaced out

Given how large fights today unfold on TQ -- how do you see this ship fulfilling your intended role on heavily TiDi systems with the sig change

What is your future vision, even at high level, for the Titan ship class? Will it remain a combat asset or are you looking and overhauling it for something else (personally btw I've argued for the last 4 years that titans should NOT be a combat ship at all, but rather a massive alliance level asset for logistics/cloning/staging/etc)

What assurances can you offer us this change will not remain a permanent fixture for the long term?

With the combat ability of this ship being "surgically adjusted", would you be even willing to look at for example increasing the jump range of the ship to balance the change

And lastly -- are you going to allow those pilots who wish to wait for your stated longer term role adjustments to GM-dock their ship until such a time that this change is no longer a surgical measure in order to still utilize the account/character for combat in EVE?


The intended role for titans is a) jump bridging, b) doomsdaying things, c) fleet boosting and d) doing a decent job of killing capitals with their main guns.

We'll be assessing the success of this change based in the first instance on whether or not players are still telling us they're having problems with this sort of thing, and then if they are, looking at the situation objectively and seeing if it merits further work.

On systems under Time Dilation, we're expecting this to work mechanically identically but subjectively slower. Time Dilation is a technical fix to prevent performance issues on heavily loaded systems; it's not a game mechanic and we're not currently considering it for balancing purposes.

We don't currently have a clear future vision for titans, as mentioned in the first post. We've repeatedly tried and failed to find a role for them that we're happy with in the past, and we don't want to spend significant balance resources on revisiting this right now because we have other priorities.

We can't offer any assurances about our future plans. Every release (~6 months) we sit down and look at what our priorities are for the various different resources we have available (balancers, general designers, UI designers, various breeds of programmer, artists etc) and then allocate accordingly. These priorities change based on the current state of the game, the resources available and so on. Spending significant resources on a major titan rework is not currently on our short-term plan, and beyond that we don't have any reliable way of offering guarantees on what we will and won't be working on. This approach means that we're always delivering maximum possible value, but at the cost of not having rock-solid long-term plans. I would also note here that we're doing this "quick fix" precisely because we don't know when we're going to have a comprehensive solution - we regard the current situation as broken, and we don't want to leave it broken indefinitely while we wait for a "proper fix" with no clear timetable. This is the best way to deal with this general sort of problem in our opinion.

We're considering additional changes to balance out this adjustment; we'll do it if we feel it's necessary, but we'd prefer to make as few changes as possible at this time.

We're also considering ways of letting people "park up", but we can't make any commitments about that this morning.



50% of our fights now take place in TiDi,Not balancing with this in mind is idiotic.

When you admit to looking at allowing players to park there 100 B+ Investment you must realize you are admitting that the ship is not worth wasting a high SP char on that could be flying the "End game " ship in eve, a Faction BS.

Also when i burn away from BS in a straight line in my Slicer i allways die, when will you look at BS tracking?


When BS cost over 60,000,000,000 ISK to build and are nigh unkillable, I expect.
Vonce forthelulz
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2030 - 2012-03-15 01:52:27 UTC
One can argue that this is a good end point for the titan class, but making this change as an immediate, entirely class-nerfing release drastically changes the balance of 0.0 power-blocks and sends a bad message about the role of the CSM.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2031 - 2012-03-15 01:54:29 UTC
Vonce forthelulz wrote:
One can argue that this is a good end point for the titan class, but making this change as an immediate, entirely class-nerfing release drastically changes the balance of 0.0 power-blocks and sends a bad message about the role of the CSM.


"our success can't rely entirely on broken ships anymore" is not "drastically changing the balance of 0.0 powerblocs"

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
EnderCapitalG
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2032 - 2012-03-15 01:55:54 UTC
StainLessStealRat wrote:
Also when i burn away from BS in a straight line in my Slicer i allways die, when will you look at BS tracking?


lol

This isn' t the same situation and you know it.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2033 - 2012-03-15 01:56:02 UTC
with raiden's high skillpoint concentration and ability to adapt to a changing combat environment I am sure that they will continue to fight us just fine

right?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
EnderCapitalG
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2034 - 2012-03-15 01:57:00 UTC
Vonce forthelulz wrote:
One can argue that this is a good end point for the titan class, but making this change as an immediate, entirely class-nerfing release drastically changes the balance of 0.0 power-blocks and sends a bad message about the role of the CSM.


Sorry that you won't be able to win fights with this nerf.

Then again, any time you guys dropped Titans we declared it as a victory anyway since we know you can't kill us without them~~
EnderCapitalG
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2035 - 2012-03-15 01:57:36 UTC
Andski wrote:
with raiden's high skillpoint concentration and ability to adapt to a changing combat environment I am sure that they will continue to fight us just fine

right?


The real question is here, are they, too, a professional merc alliance like Pandemic Legion???
Death2all Supercaps
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#2036 - 2012-03-15 02:02:38 UTC
EnderCapitalG wrote:
Guys, my SP and ISK and ~gamechanger~


lol goonNOOBS only have 5mil SP hahahahahaha



Death2all Supercaps wrote:
Skrypt wrote:
Sounds like a good idea. Let me dedicate my 120m SP character to a spacecoffin that opens bridges and can shoot non-existent capital fleets.

Oh well, at least this means there's one less account for me to sub.


I have 2 mil sp and am a threat to you now Cool



correction 2 mil sp :colbert:
Darth Tickles
Doomheim
#2037 - 2012-03-15 02:24:45 UTC
All the tears have been teared, laughs laughed, and backs slapped.

That was a great 100 pages. Thanks to everyone who contributed.
Titan Keeper 22
Doomheim
#2038 - 2012-03-15 02:33:05 UTC
there are just too many trolls around here. i dont know why CCP is letting those cluleless goonswarm trolls make troll posts at almost every post giving opinions and feedbacks about the incomming titan adjustments that are not from their own, without any legimate reason.

please remove idiotic posts here so that people would actually read other peoples feedbacks and react by agreeing, disagreeing, leaving feedback of a feedback without trolling.

and by the way, i'm not any part of rdn, nc., pl, goonswarm, cfc, or any 0.0 sov holding alliance. (infact, i personally hate some of rdn members for the insulting of me in the past still then, was never in or part of thier alliance.)

therefore i'm not favoring anyone and have no reason to. but i must say this, that you GoonSwarm and CFC are acting ridiculous here.

all the hate from the past because they(rdn nc. pl) have overwhelmed, ripped apart your maelstrom/drake fleet by titan blobbing needs to be said and done somwhere else. usually when this kind of thing happens, CCP tend to act against, and favourite the other side a little bit.(doesn't mean that they have always favorited in a way that affected the game fix) but for somreason they are agreeing upon everything that Goonswarm/CFC says, including troll posts.



i'm starting to think that there must've been some kind of bribery, extortion, some kind of simillar way done with this issue thats going on right now. CCP need not to act ridiculously keep letting things go like this.
Sotar Armana
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2039 - 2012-03-15 02:56:21 UTC
Titan Keeper 22 wrote:
there are just too many trolls around here. i dont know why CCP is letting those cluleless goonswarm trolls make troll posts at almost every post giving opinions and feedbacks about the incomming titan adjustments that are not from their own, without any legimate reason.

please remove idiotic posts here so that people would actually read other peoples feedbacks and react by agreeing, disagreeing, leaving feedback of a feedback without trolling.

and by the way, i'm not any part of rdn, nc., pl, goonswarm, cfc, or any 0.0 sov holding alliance. (infact, i personally hate some of rdn members for the insulting of me in the past still then, was never in or part of thier alliance.)

therefore i'm not favoring anyone and have no reason to. but i must say this, that you GoonSwarm and CFC are acting ridiculous here.

all the hate from the past because they(rdn nc. pl) have overwhelmed, ripped apart your maelstrom/drake fleet by titan blobbing needs to be said and done somwhere else. usually when this kind of thing happens, CCP tend to act against, and favourite the other side a little bit.(doesn't mean that they have always favorited in a way that affected the game fix) but for somreason they are agreeing upon everything that Goonswarm/CFC says, including troll posts.



i'm starting to think that there must've been some kind of bribery, extortion, some kind of simillar way done with this issue thats going on right now. CCP need not to act ridiculously keep letting things go like this.


Conspiracy post.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2040 - 2012-03-15 02:57:00 UTC
NPC alts

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar