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New dev blog: Rebalancing EVE, one ship at a time

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bornaa
GRiD.
#1941 - 2012-04-09 12:51:27 UTC  |  Edited by: bornaa
Please CCP,
Look at your, like one guy says, aluminium foil ORE ship design.
Why the hell are that expensive ships that weak???
You throw a rock on them and they shatter.
3 mill worth isk fitted destroyer can kill allmost 400mill worth, fitted, hulk???
90 mill worth isk fitted tornado can kill few exumers that worth close to 1 Billion???
And all that before Concord comes???

So you basically want that one ganker can kill 100 times more expensive mining gear then their whip is worth and that all before Concord comes? Roll
That's really ****** design.

Severian Carnifex wrote:
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
Shouldn't you all like new miner ships so you can just suicide gank them with 1 light drone? If they continue the paper thin hulls on mining barges scaling downward, they should have about 38 EHP. You'll have to fight off the other gangs of real pvpers extracting 'tears' of the 3 hour old players though, so maybe that's why you're upset?


I hope CCP is not that blind.
If they were before, i hope they gave a visit to a good opthamologist in the mean time.

@ CCP:
Your design of ORE ships is garbage.
Aluminum foil can can not fly in space.
[Yes, I'm an Amateur](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRa-69uBmIw&feature=relmfu)
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1942 - 2012-04-09 15:33:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarah Schneider
bornaa wrote:
Please CCP,
Look at your, like one guy says, aluminium foil ORE ship design.
Why the hell are that expensive ships that weak???
You throw a rock on them and they shatter.
3 mill worth isk fitted destroyer can kill allmost 400mill worth, fitted, hulk???
90 mill worth isk fitted tornado can kill few exumers that worth close to 1 Billion???
And all that before Concord comes???

So you basically want that one ganker can kill 100 times more expensive mining gear then their whip is worth and that all before Concord comes? Roll
That's really ****** design.

Severian Carnifex wrote:
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
Shouldn't you all like new miner ships so you can just suicide gank them with 1 light drone? If they continue the paper thin hulls on mining barges scaling downward, they should have about 38 EHP. You'll have to fight off the other gangs of real pvpers extracting 'tears' of the 3 hour old players though, so maybe that's why you're upset?


I hope CCP is not that blind.
If they were before, i hope they gave a visit to a good opthamologist in the mean time.

@ CCP:
Your design of ORE ships is garbage.
Aluminum foil can can not fly in space.

So you basically want the game to be, bigger = better? What about the frig pilots? destroyers? they can't hit anything else besides another frig? what about titans? should they be made so that nothing can touch them, at all? yeah, right.

Eve were designed around the concept that every ship would perform as they supposed to if you fit them right and suited to it's role, you don't fight a nado with exhumers, heck that's a pvp vs pve ship, it's just how it should work. You dont fight a guy holding a $50 sword with a $1200 tennis racket do you?

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
None ofthe Above
#1943 - 2012-04-09 17:51:29 UTC
Dreker71 wrote:
None ofthe Above wrote:
Oi... there are reasons to be upset about these proposals, but they have committed to making sure you won't be locked out of any ships you can already fly.

As they've said ad infinitum now.


and what about the ones I was due to fly soon....?


Well that is where you may be screwed. Best finish up that cross-training now.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
None ofthe Above
#1944 - 2012-04-09 17:55:02 UTC
Dreker71 wrote:

Bring on the hate mail.............

have you even read what the changes will be? what is wrong with people Sad[/quote]

Yes but not all 90 something pages[/quote]

Try getting through the original post at least. Or for further clarification, the posts linked from the first post that answer this most asked question.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
bornaa
GRiD.
#1945 - 2012-04-09 18:25:36 UTC  |  Edited by: bornaa
Sarah Schneider wrote:
bornaa wrote:
Please CCP,
Look at your, like one guy says, aluminium foil ORE ship design.
Why the hell are that expensive ships that weak???
You throw a rock on them and they shatter.
3 mill worth isk fitted destroyer can kill allmost 400mill worth, fitted, hulk???
90 mill worth isk fitted tornado can kill few exumers that worth close to 1 Billion???
And all that before Concord comes???

So you basically want that one ganker can kill 100 times more expensive mining gear then their whip is worth and that all before Concord comes? Roll
That's really ****** design.

Severian Carnifex wrote:
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
Shouldn't you all like new miner ships so you can just suicide gank them with 1 light drone? If they continue the paper thin hulls on mining barges scaling downward, they should have about 38 EHP. You'll have to fight off the other gangs of real pvpers extracting 'tears' of the 3 hour old players though, so maybe that's why you're upset?


I hope CCP is not that blind.
If they were before, i hope they gave a visit to a good opthamologist in the mean time.

@ CCP:
Your design of ORE ships is garbage.
Aluminum foil can can not fly in space.

So you basically want the game to be, bigger = better? What about the frig pilots? destroyers? they can't hit anything else besides another frig? what about titans? should they be made so that nothing can touch them, at all? yeah, right.

Eve were designed around the concept that every ship would perform as they supposed to if you fit them right and suited to it's role, you don't fight a nado with exhumers, heck that's a pvp vs pve ship, it's just how it should work. You dont fight a guy holding a $50 sword with a $1200 tennis racket do you?


No, i want what is said in description of exumers: "They are also far more resilient, better able to handle the dangers of deep space."
I want that 2 year old kid can not beat up 25 year old man. (look at training time)
I want that any ship that pass cant kill ship thats OVER THEN 100 TIMES more expensive
I want that its like its in the rest of the game, you want kill more expensive ship, bring more ships - that way stakes are evening to a logical isk value difference between both sides. (where you else find that over 100 times cheaper ship wins the fight and on top of that, wins a fight every time???)
I want that EVEs mood is preserved - There is no PVP without risk
I want that EVEs mood is preserved - There is no free murders where you even earn ISK.

So its logical to you to earn nice money when you are doing illegal acts in front of police???
You want that one frigate can kill faction BS??? or dessy faction BS??? - that's around isk ratio we are talking about

And if i use $1200 tennis racket I can run - mining ship cant.
[Yes, I'm an Amateur](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRa-69uBmIw&feature=relmfu)
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1946 - 2012-04-09 20:40:30 UTC
bornaa wrote:

No, i want what is said in description of exumers: "They are also far more resilient, better able to handle the dangers of deep space."
Cerberus Description : No cruiser currently in existence can match the superiority of the Cerberus's onboard missile system. With a well-trained pilot jacked in, this fanged horror is capable of unleashing a hail of missiles to send even the most seasoned armor tankers running for cover.
Yes, i want cerberus to be able to own every armor ship with similar hullsize, say, just make the bonus for missile damage to ignore sig radius, that would work :) imbalanced? why? it says so in the description.

I want that 2 year old kid can not beat up 25 year old man. (look at training time)
Say, i'm trained in a damnation which took me several long months to train, so, by that logic nothing, below that training time, T3s, faction battleships, HACs, AFs, inties would be able to touch me? tyvm. :)

I want that any ship that pass cant kill ship thats OVER THEN 100 TIMES more expensive
Sweet, the vindicator, bhaal and most other billion isk ships are now invulnerable. Oh wait, they have guns too! awesome!

I want that its like its in the rest of the game, you want kill more expensive ship, bring more ships - that way stakes are evening to a logical isk value difference between both sides. (where you else find that over 100 times cheaper ship wins the fight and on top of that, wins a fight every time???)
So, to kill my machariel, you need to bring, hmm, 20 drakes? Sweet, with a fleet of machs i can take over new eden!

So its logical to you to earn nice money when you are doing illegal acts in front of police???
If you're talking about CONCORD, they're not there to protect you, they're there to punish people. If protection is what they have in mind, CONCORD would have invaded lowsec and nullsec to kill negstat people by now.

You want that one frigate can kill faction BS??? or dessy faction BS??? - that's around isk ratio we are talking about
There are also player skills, the elements of paper, rock, scissors. ship roles, etc. and hey, whaddaya know, the element of Eve Online.

And if i use $1200 tennis racket I can run - mining ship cant
You can if the agressor doesn't have a point fitted, in which case it's not a weapon and in which case not analogous to sword vs tennis racket.

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
Avila Cracko
#1947 - 2012-04-09 21:15:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Avila Cracko
Sarah Schneider wrote:
bornaa wrote:

No, i want what is said in description of exumers: "They are also far more resilient, better able to handle the dangers of deep space."
Cerberus Description : No cruiser currently in existence can match the superiority of the Cerberus's onboard missile system. With a well-trained pilot jacked in, this fanged horror is capable of unleashing a hail of missiles to send even the most seasoned armor tankers running for cover.
Yes, i want cerberus to be able to own every armor ship with similar hullsize, say, just make the bonus for missile damage to ignore sig radius, that would work :) imbalanced? why? it says so in the description.

I want that 2 year old kid can not beat up 25 year old man. (look at training time)
Say, i'm trained in a damnation which took me several long months to train, so, by that logic nothing, below that training time, T3s, faction battleships, HACs, AFs, inties would be able to touch me? tyvm. :)

I want that any ship that pass cant kill ship thats OVER THEN 100 TIMES more expensive
Sweet, the vindicator, bhaal and most other billion isk ships are now invulnerable. Oh wait, they have guns too! awesome!

I want that its like its in the rest of the game, you want kill more expensive ship, bring more ships - that way stakes are evening to a logical isk value difference between both sides. (where you else find that over 100 times cheaper ship wins the fight and on top of that, wins a fight every time???)
So, to kill my machariel, you need to bring, hmm, 20 drakes? Sweet, with a fleet of machs i can take over new eden!

So its logical to you to earn nice money when you are doing illegal acts in front of police???
If you're talking about CONCORD, they're not there to protect you, they're there to punish people. If protection is what they have in mind, CONCORD would have invaded lowsec and nullsec to kill negstat people by now.

You want that one frigate can kill faction BS??? or dessy faction BS??? - that's around isk ratio we are talking about
There are also player skills, the elements of paper, rock, scissors. ship roles, etc. and hey, whaddaya know, the element of Eve Online.

And if i use $1200 tennis racket I can run - mining ship cant
You can if the agressor doesn't have a point fitted, in which case it's not a weapon and in which case not analogous to sword vs tennis racket.


I will not get into this subject now, again... but something caught my eye.
If you dont know that all is over in a few seconds then i dont know why do you posting on this subject.
Its not fight, its execution, without penalty, and no one can escape it.

truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1948 - 2012-04-09 22:26:52 UTC
Avila Cracko wrote:
Sarah Schneider wrote:
And if i use $1200 tennis racket I can run - mining ship cant
You can if the agressor doesn't have a point fitted, in which case it's not a weapon and in which case not analogous to sword vs tennis racket.


I will not get into this subject now, again... but something caught my eye.
If you dont know that all is over in a few seconds then i dont know why do you posting on this subject.
Its not fight, its execution, without penalty, and no one can escape it.


I was not talking about whether destruction is inevitable or not, it's about the equation of ship price in relation to whether it should/should not survive and a faulty analogue deduction that i was referring to the ship in whole which in my context of sword vs racket is the ship, which is not.

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
Yornic
Jackets Corporation
#1949 - 2012-04-09 23:21:58 UTC
So....Alliance Tournament prize ships are completely invincible? I mean by your logic....Wait does this also mean that if you dump expensive officer mods on your expensive faction battleship, you're also completely invincible? OH BOY I AM SO EXCITED I WILL SPEND SO MUCH MONEY ON THIS GAME.

By the way, I'd absolutely love to see a tennis racket vs. sword fight. Will pay very small amounts of isk.

Also, you probably should pay attention to A) Hulkageddon B) CFC highsec deployments to go burn everything. If those are happening, you probably don't want to undock. Ever.
Serenity 159080
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1950 - 2012-04-10 01:37:46 UTC
Wow with all the rude players, don't get me wrong, I partly agree with you, but being rude doesn't help persuade CCP to listen to your point of view.

I, like many, have trained BC 5, and would face a couple months of extra training to reach the point that I was already at. A little annoying, but something I would sacrifice so that CCP could fix a mistake that was made when destroyers and battlecruisers were introduced. Frigates, cruisers and battleships are all racial, I see no reason why destroyers and battlecruisers should be any different. If they were originally introduced as racial skills, no one would have complained.

Anyway, thanks Soundwave/all other CCP guys for the free SP, I like your direction.
Severian Carnifex
#1951 - 2012-04-10 08:11:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Severian Carnifex
Yornic wrote:
So....Alliance Tournament prize ships are completely invincible? I mean by your logic....Wait does this also mean that if you dump expensive officer mods on your expensive faction battleship, you're also completely invincible? OH BOY I AM SO EXCITED I WILL SPEND SO MUCH MONEY ON THIS GAME.

By the way, I'd absolutely love to see a tennis racket vs. sword fight. Will pay very small amounts of isk.

Also, you probably should pay attention to A) Hulkageddon B) CFC highsec deployments to go burn everything. If those are happening, you probably don't want to undock. Ever.



Oh, so you want that every expensive ship can be killed in one shoot with 100 times cheaper ship?
ok, CCP, put this logic on all ships in EVE then, you see that people love it,
reduce all tanks on all combat ships by factor of 10 and people will be happy. Roll

p.s.
This is good for lag too, less ships on battlefield because they are killed in one shot and battles are shorter.
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#1952 - 2012-04-10 08:20:14 UTC
Serenity 159080 wrote:

Stuff...


No reason for anybody to be complaining anyhow, unless they missed this..

CCP Ytterbium wrote:


SKILLS:

  • Destroyer and Battlecruiser reimbursement: it has been said before, but allow us to repeat again, that we do not want to cut ships you can already fly. Thus, having BC skill at 5 would mean you get all four variations at 5.

    • Helothane
    Ascendent.
    Test Alliance Please Ignore
    #1953 - 2012-04-10 14:17:57 UTC
    Since part of the creation of ship lines is to reassess slots as well as armor/shield, can you please reconsider the allocation of hardpoints on the minmatar ships that have an equal number of turrets and missile bays, where the total number of hardpoints equals the number of high slots? These are the Bellicose (and the t2 variants, the huginn and rapier), the scythe fleet issue and the naglfar (the only dread that requires training two XL weapon systems). The non-fleet scythe is in there as well, but it is meant as a mining cruiser, not a combat ship like the fleet issue. The typhoon used to be like that, until it was changed to have 5 turrets and 5 missile bays, so that you could choose to fit 5 of one and either 3 of the other, or more likely, 3 neuts.

    Thanks.
    Ackemi
    The Gaming Avenue
    Shadow Ultimatum
    #1954 - 2012-04-10 17:42:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Ackemi
    I only read half a dozen or so pages and especially everything a Dev said. With that in mind let me say my 0.02isk...


    The whole mess could be put to rest by resetting everyones SP to 0 and allocating the points previously held (nobody gets free SP) to be re-distributed. Every skill book previously injected into players stays there- everyone who had any destroyer or BC level automatically gets all racial books injected.

    Then CCP makes the skill roadmap all the way up the tree look exactly like they want in one fell swoop!

    The only real advantage vets over new players get is a few free skillbooks. If a player cannot fly the entire breadth of ships they could before they can just spend the time to finish training that branch just like every other pilot will have to from there-out (I fall in this category btw...).

    For the inconvenience of CCP finally fixing (finishing) the skill tree, all the existing players get the advantage of fixing everything they may have wish they done differently.



    I'm only recommending this to make it easy on CCP to make a sweeping change, keep existing players happy with the chance to fix poor skill choices, and to be fair to future new players starting. Mainly just to ease all the speculation and 100 page threadnoughts!

    Edit: Oh and if you aren't logging into the game to restart your skillpoints -> TOO BAD!!! Twisted

    *With enough warning that could be mitigated.
    Sunviking
    Doomheim
    #1955 - 2012-04-10 18:02:03 UTC
    Hello CCP,

    Can we have an update to this devblog please?

    It's been over a month since it was first released, so we are very interested to see any progress you have made...
    Smile

    - Sun
    Sarah Schneider
    Native Freshfood
    Minmatar Republic
    #1956 - 2012-04-10 21:31:57 UTC
    Severian Carnifex wrote:
    Yornic wrote:
    So....Alliance Tournament prize ships are completely invincible? I mean by your logic....Wait does this also mean that if you dump expensive officer mods on your expensive faction battleship, you're also completely invincible? OH BOY I AM SO EXCITED I WILL SPEND SO MUCH MONEY ON THIS GAME.

    By the way, I'd absolutely love to see a tennis racket vs. sword fight. Will pay very small amounts of isk.

    Also, you probably should pay attention to A) Hulkageddon B) CFC highsec deployments to go burn everything. If those are happening, you probably don't want to undock. Ever.



    Oh, so you want that every expensive ship can be killed in one shoot with 100 times cheaper ship?
    ok, CCP, put this logic on all ships in EVE then, you see that people love it,
    reduce all tanks on all combat ships by factor of 10 and people will be happy. Roll

    p.s.
    This is good for lag too, less ships on battlefield because they are killed in one shot and battles are shorter.

    Which part of the text mentioned a "one shot"? by all means please... point them out. The idea here is that pve, esp. industrial ships should always be susceptible (a correct term should be "doomed" tbh) to pvp ships if they're both fitted specifically for their role, no matter how much their costs are, that's it. A person holding an axe should logically have very remote (if not no) chance to win a fight or run from a guy holding a gun, no matter how cheap the gun is, how expensive the axe is, or how big the guy holding the axe is.

    Anyway, hopefully CCP would release another sort-of confirmation on when this supposed to happen, so people could somehow prepare for it and not just waiting in darkness.

    "I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
    Sunviking
    Doomheim
    #1957 - 2012-04-11 09:35:56 UTC
    Dear CCP,

    Can you take a look at why some ships have more slots than their counterparts in other races please? i.e. A lot of Minmater ships have more total slots than Caldari ships.

    Thank you
    Togrockz
    Brutor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #1958 - 2012-04-11 09:41:10 UTC
    Since i havent been able to find some answers and i cant bother to search all those ~100pages for devs posts(CCP should add a button in each post that would warp you to the next official post in the thread)
    i would like to see if anyone of you guys have heard of something official on the next matter:

    supposing i have

    rac frigate 4>rac cruiser 3>Battlecruisers 5 no destroyer skill

    what will i get after the changes?

    I mean ok before every1 starts saying "you will get racial battlecruiser 5" and crap, read on

    will i also get rac cruiser 4? since after the changes u will actually NEED the rac cruiser into 4 to be able to fly the racial battlecruiser ship (Every ship in description in the game requires all prereqs).What will happen to my destroyer skills(supposing i have never actually trained them and leave it to 0 till the patch)

    Currently to my example i am not able to inject racial battleship.However after the change i would be able to inject it since i will be given the rac bc at 5?

    Another (similar) question

    Rac battleship 3, 0 bc , 0 destroyer skills.
    What happens next?What will i be given after patch to be able to still fly the ship i could fly before?Will i be give free battlecruiser 4 and free destroyer skill 4?
    Kronarn
    Dirty Old Bastards
    Random Violence.
    #1959 - 2012-04-11 10:36:52 UTC
    Re-balance the size of ships too while you re-balance everything else including skills, for example: Machs should not be bigger than carriers considering currently in game the carriers can carry a ship that is larger than the carrier itself. Carriers and super carriers need to get a major size re-scale in game, they are way too small when you look at the size of them in the descriptions, same should apply to stations but that's another thread.

    11,925,000.0 m3 (1,000,000.0 m3 Packaged) - Carrier

    595,000.0 m3 (50,000.0 m3 Packaged) - Machariel

    Yet the Machariel is bigger than the Chimera Roll

    Seriously, I have seen these things discussed for years on the forums yet nothing has been done yet...
    Warrior Xena
    Black Wormholes of Apocrypha
    TOGETHER WE STAND
    #1960 - 2012-04-11 11:09:15 UTC
    Kronarn wrote:
    Re-balance the size of ships too while you re-balance everything else including skills, for example: Machs should not be bigger than carriers considering currently in game the carriers can carry a ship that is larger than the carrier itself.


    lol they are bigger on the inside ( like the 3000m3 containers which can hold 3900m3 )

    see T.A.R.D.I.S.